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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 16:20:00 GMT -5
I really like what Nelson has done on the recruiting front as it looks like the incoming frosh are a step up from the players we have been recruiting in the prior regime. Hopefully he will land at least one of the other players we are currently pursuing. That being said I don't think we're any closer to knowing if Nelson can coach than we were when the year began. I agree with BBC that the talent isn't there so it's tough to judge the results this year. He has basically done what I thought he would do when the season began lose games. He certainly has not made chicken salad out of a chicken blank roster. BBC seems to think that the roster is so bad that no one or nothing could be done to improve the defense this year. Does anyone really think that if Willard was given the same roster that we'd still be the worst defensive team in the country, I find that hard to believe. It appears that Nelson has taken the first step improving the talent level of the roster, now it's time to find out if he can do the X's and O's part to turn the program into a winning team. Agree with everything, but the underlined sentence is irrelevant. Of course we would be "better" defensively if we had a guy who was one of the best defensive (and overall) coaches in college basketball, but we would not have actually been a "good" defensive team and our results would have still been dreadful. Freshmen who RW recruited to play in his system had enough trouble being able to play in year 1, that would be exponentially more difficult for a full roster of players who were recruited by a coaching staff who was only concerned with whether they could shoot from the perimeter and who were recruited by very few D1 teams. RW would not have been able to actually employ his matchup if he faced the same scenario as Nelson (starting in june, having the same roster). Joe Pridgen is the only current player who RW would have recruited.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 16:22:12 GMT -5
As I have said before it is very unfair, esp for a rookie coach, to compare him to RW, esp to his defensive acumen. Agree. Comparison to Willard isn't fair. He was a superior defensive mind compared to just about anyone in college basketball. That said, a good defensive mind would find a way to have this team -- regardless of how bad the talent is -- not ranked sixth from the bottom. Also, I'm not really sure what Nelson is looking to do on the defensive end. It would be one thing if there looked to be a clear identity or system he was seeking to implement, but the team simply wasn't able to execute it. Many on this board, myself included, criticized Milan Brown for a vanilla man to man defensive approach without any wrinkles. I fear that's what we are seeing again and will continue to see next year. I'm sure the defense will improve -- how can it not when you are this close to the bottom? -- with better players, but will it get us to where we need to be? Remains to be seen. What would you change about this year's defense to make us more successful?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 27, 2020 16:39:35 GMT -5
Agree. Comparison to Willard isn't fair. He was a superior defensive mind compared to just about anyone in college basketball. That said, a good defensive mind would find a way to have this team -- regardless of how bad the talent is -- not ranked sixth from the bottom. Also, I'm not really sure what Nelson is looking to do on the defensive end. It would be one thing if there looked to be a clear identity or system he was seeking to implement, but the team simply wasn't able to execute it. Many on this board, myself included, criticized Milan Brown for a vanilla man to man defensive approach without any wrinkles. I fear that's what we are seeing again and will continue to see next year. I'm sure the defense will improve -- how can it not when you are this close to the bottom? -- with better players, but will it get us to where we need to be? Remains to be seen. What would you change about this year's defense to make us more successful? Here's an easy one: Make it much more difficult for opponent's to pass the ball into the post. Last night, Matt Wilson was able to get the ball into the post whenever he wanted it. We never denied the entry and very rarely doubled him when he caught it. Understanding that we are incredibly thin (literally) on the interior, I'm shocked we haven't looked to front or double post players. The opposition is shoot 56% on 2PT FG. That's horrific.
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Feb 27, 2020 16:50:25 GMT -5
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 27, 2020 16:50:25 GMT -5
Uncomfortable making any kind of comparisons involving Ralph Willard, but I think it should be noted that even he struggled in year 1 when his roster was shredded (in his case, with injuries). No such struggles in year 2.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 27, 2020 17:03:53 GMT -5
Uncomfortable making any kind of comparisons involving Ralph Willard, but I think it should be noted that even he struggled in year 1 when his roster was shredded (in his case, with injuries). No such struggles in year 2. They didn't struggle defensively, though - ranked 45th in opponent EFG% and 46th in defensive efficiency, both major improvements over the 1998-99 club.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 17:07:26 GMT -5
What would you change about this year's defense to make us more successful? Here's an easy one: Make it much more difficult for opponent's to pass the ball into the post. Last night, Matt Wilson was able to get the ball into the post whenever he wanted it. We never denied the entry and very rarely doubled him when he caught it. Understanding that we are incredibly thin (literally) on the interior, I'm shocked we haven't looked to front or double post players. The opposition is shoot 56% on 2PT FG. That's horrific. A fine suggestion, however, doubling the post requires quick rotations both on and away from the ball. -The two "bigs" we are playing right now are very weak defensively, so doubling big-to-big may not be all that effective -The 4-on-3 offensive advantage that doubling would create is even more of an advantage with our current wing personnel -These rotations also require significant practice time, and our second team cannot simulate a D1 offense. Also, Wilson shot only 50% on FGs last night -- well below his season pace (63%), and was only 3 points above his season average (20 vs 16.4). Army averages 71.25 PPG on 47.5% shooting this season. Last night they scored 67 points on 48.4% shooting.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 17:17:51 GMT -5
Uncomfortable making any kind of comparisons involving Ralph Willard, but I think it should be noted that even he struggled in year 1 when his roster was shredded (in his case, with injuries). No such struggles in year 2. They didn't struggle defensively, though - ranked 45th in opponent EFG% and 46th in defensive efficiency, both major improvements over the 1998-99 club. RW inherited a roster that ranked 209 in EFG% (49.9%) the previous year and returned all of its best players. BN inherited a roster that ranked 313 in EFG% (53.8%) the previous year and lost its three best players (and four best defenders). ------------ I think everyone agrees that our defense would be better if RW was the coach this year. But our defense/offense/everything would also be better this year if BN had RW's Year 1 roster. RW's offensive efficiency in Year 1 was 301 with Sankes, Szatko, Whearty, Wilson, Seravalle, Pegues, Curry, Spitler. BN's offensive efficiency in Year 1 is 267 with Pridgen. It goes both ways. ----------- You won't find a bigger RW fan than me, but the idea that he could have come in this year and turned things around with this roster is garbage, and it's rubbish, and it's not true.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 27, 2020 17:30:05 GMT -5
Here's an easy one: Make it much more difficult for opponent's to pass the ball into the post. Last night, Matt Wilson was able to get the ball into the post whenever he wanted it. We never denied the entry and very rarely doubled him when he caught it. Understanding that we are incredibly thin (literally) on the interior, I'm shocked we haven't looked to front or double post players. The opposition is shoot 56% on 2PT FG. That's horrific. A fine suggestion, however, doubling the post requires quick rotations both on and away from the ball. -The two "bigs" we are playing right now are very weak defensively, so doubling big-to-big may not be all that effective -The 4-on-3 offensive advantage that doubling would create is even more of an advantage with our current wing personnel -These rotations also require significant practice time, and our second team cannot simulate a D1 offense. Also, Wilson shot only 50% on FGs last night -- well below his season pace (63%), and was only 3 points above his season average (20 vs 16.4). Army averages 71.25 PPG on 47.5% shooting this season. Last night they scored 67 points on 48.4% shooting. That % is correct, but with 2-15 on threes, their two point % was 55 on 26-47
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Post by possum on Feb 27, 2020 17:51:28 GMT -5
BBC I don't think anyone's suggesting RW would win with this roster, probably more than 3 games, but not a winning record. What you're saying is that no matter who the coach was this would be one of if not the worst defensive team in the country. This would be a much more provable point if we had brought someone in who had a background as a successful defensive coach and produced these results, Nelson had no track record so we have no idea whether he's capable of teaching sound defensive principles or if he needs help in this area. He's certainly going to get the opportunity so we'll know soon enough.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 27, 2020 17:53:10 GMT -5
He made a fundamental choice- change the system! It didn't matter what the current skills were on the roster because he was recruiting players he believed would be able to play in his system. He will be judged on the success of his recruits. As an approach, it certainly makes sense, although I respectfully disagree. IMO he should have focused on creating a winning mindset- not just in terms of a W-L record,, but in experiencing small successes that could build trust and respect for each other, and a much needed confidence in the future which is part of establishing a winning culture. We finished in last place in the PL last year playing a zone and lost our three best players (+ Pat Benzan). The assumption that simply switching to a zone this year would have made a difference is severely flawed. Instead, Nelson focused on changing the culture of the program and seeing who was physically and mentally tough enough to play in that culture. Assuming that improved results on the X's & O's front are coming with the roster turnover, this was a far better decision than kowtowing to a roster where the majority of the players did not even belong. Never said we shouldn't change, but I did say he should have had a different approach and focus. In other words, he needed to find a way for the roster to contribute and each player have a role, small or large, that added value to the team. That way they could then make progress as a team- not in wins or loses but in attitude and confidence. To suggest the majority of players don't belong, is an opinion I don't share, and unfair to each of the players. Are they all talented low-mid D1 players, probably not for the system they played this year. However, for the style they were recruited to play I believe they were a better fit. If using that same lens we can discuss and perhaps agree that it would have been great to get a higher level of player in the program over the past decade. Saying that everything wrong with the program changes overnight because a new coach comes in and creates a new version of discipline, is misguided- First thing every individual asks when they are presented with change-- how does this impact me? Embracing change takes time and it takes a talented leader to get people to follow.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 27, 2020 19:47:56 GMT -5
I really like what Nelson has done on the recruiting front as it looks like the incoming frosh are a step up from the players we have been recruiting in the prior regime. Hopefully he will land at least one of the other players we are currently pursuing. That being said I don't think we're any closer to knowing if Nelson can coach than we were when the year began. I agree with BBC that the talent isn't there so it's tough to judge the results this year. He has basically done what I thought he would do when the season began lose games. He certainly has not made chicken salad out of a chicken blank roster. BBC seems to think that the roster is so bad that no one or nothing could be done to improve the defense this year. Does anyone really think that if Willard was given the same roster that we'd still be the worst defensive team in the country, I find that hard to believe. It appears that Nelson has taken the first step improving the talent level of the roster, now it's time to find out if he can do the X's and O's part to turn the program into a winning team. Agree with everything, but the underlined sentence is irrelevant. Of course we would be "better" defensively if we had a guy who was one of the best defensive (and overall) coaches in college basketball, but we would not have actually been a "good" defensive team and our results would have still been dreadful. Freshmen who RW recruited to play in his system had enough trouble being able to play in year 1, that would be exponentially more difficult for a full roster of players who were recruited by a coaching staff who was only concerned with whether they could shoot from the perimeter and who were recruited by very few D1 teams. RW would not have been able to actually employ his matchup if he faced the same scenario as Nelson (starting in june, having the same roster). Joe Pridgen is the only current player who RW would have recruited.So, are you saying that all of Ralph's players were better than everyone on this team except for Joe Pridgen? Instead of Austin Butler (you know, the Division-3 caliber player), Matt Faw, and Connor Niego you'd rather have any of the players that Ralph recruited?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 27, 2020 20:00:40 GMT -5
Agree with everything, but the underlined sentence is irrelevant. Of course we would be "better" defensively if we had a guy who was one of the best defensive (and overall) coaches in college basketball, but we would not have actually been a "good" defensive team and our results would have still been dreadful. Freshmen who RW recruited to play in his system had enough trouble being able to play in year 1, that would be exponentially more difficult for a full roster of players who were recruited by a coaching staff who was only concerned with whether they could shoot from the perimeter and who were recruited by very few D1 teams. RW would not have been able to actually employ his matchup if he faced the same scenario as Nelson (starting in june, having the same roster). Joe Pridgen is the only current player who RW would have recruited.So, are you saying that all of Ralph's players were better than everyone on this team except for Joe Pridgen? Instead of Austin Butler (you know, the Division-3 caliber player), Matt Faw, and Connor Niego you'd rather have any of the players that Ralph recruited? Because Ralph Willard never swung and miss on any recruits. Unbelievable. We don’t need to name names, but Willard — like everyone coach who has ever had to recruit — has some guys who didn’t pan out. Austin Butler would have actually been a nice guy to have come off the bench on some of those Willard teams where offense was hard to come by at times.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 27, 2020 20:11:46 GMT -5
And he would have been a great guy to start on some of those Willard teams. Boy, won't that statement infuriate someone.....
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 20:16:16 GMT -5
Agree with everything, but the underlined sentence is irrelevant. Of course we would be "better" defensively if we had a guy who was one of the best defensive (and overall) coaches in college basketball, but we would not have actually been a "good" defensive team and our results would have still been dreadful. Freshmen who RW recruited to play in his system had enough trouble being able to play in year 1, that would be exponentially more difficult for a full roster of players who were recruited by a coaching staff who was only concerned with whether they could shoot from the perimeter and who were recruited by very few D1 teams. RW would not have been able to actually employ his matchup if he faced the same scenario as Nelson (starting in june, having the same roster). Joe Pridgen is the only current player who RW would have recruited.So, are you saying that all of Ralph's players were better than everyone on this team except for Joe Pridgen? Instead of Austin Butler (you know, the Division-3 caliber player), Matt Faw, and Connor Niego you'd rather have any of the players that Ralph recruited? That’s not what I said at all. He wouldn’t have recruited those guys because they are poor defenders, and in the case of the two bigs, allergic to the paint until they met Nelson. Unlike the Butler Fan Club on here, RW wouldn’t have cared about his 100% 3-point shooting percentage on his high school highlight tape.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 20:20:55 GMT -5
We finished in last place in the PL last year playing a zone and lost our three best players (+ Pat Benzan). The assumption that simply switching to a zone this year would have made a difference is severely flawed. Instead, Nelson focused on changing the culture of the program and seeing who was physically and mentally tough enough to play in that culture. Assuming that improved results on the X's & O's front are coming with the roster turnover, this was a far better decision than kowtowing to a roster where the majority of the players did not even belong. Never said we shouldn't change, but I did say he should have had a different approach and focus. In other words, he needed to find a way for the roster to contribute and each player have a role, small or large, that added value to the team. That way they could then make progress as a team- not in wins or loses but in attitude and confidence. To suggest the majority of players don't belong, is an opinion I don't share, and unfair to each of the players. Are they all talented low-mid D1 players, probably not for the system they played this year. However, for the style they were recruited to play I believe they were a better fit. If using that same lens we can discuss and perhaps agree that it would have been great to get a higher level of player in the program over the past decade. Saying that everything wrong with the program changes overnight because a new coach comes in and creates a new version of discipline, is misguided- First thing every individual asks when they are presented with change-- how does this impact me? Embracing change takes time and it takes a talented leader to get people to follow. One guy who left went D3. Lowder is headed to another D1 program, but it’s pretty clear that BN thought RJ Johnson was a much better fit for the program. (And Nelson will be held accountable for that). There have been no grumblings about Hargris and Copeland having interest from other D1 programs. If they don’t end up at another D1 program, wouldn’t you say that it’s better that we replace them with higher caliber players than have Nelson go out of his way to try and jam a square peg into a round hole?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 27, 2020 20:21:05 GMT -5
I think Butler would have seen considerable time on the 07-08 team over a guard who shot 31% 3PT and 39% 2PT, Kentucky.
Don’t you think defense is something that could be taught to a kid coming out of high school, Bring Back?
If a guy is athletic, intelligent, and motivated, I would think a defense — no matter how complex — is something that player could excel in.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 20:29:12 GMT -5
I think Butler would have seen considerable time on the 07-08 team over a guard who shot 31% 3PT and 39% 2PT, Kentucky. Don’t you think defense is something that could be taught to a kid coming out of high school, Bring Back? If a guy is athletic, intelligent, and motivated, I would think a defense — no matter how complex — is something that player could excel in. That first description is wrong, and we know absolutely nothing about the second in relation to understanding RW’s defense because he has never been put in a system in the same stratosphere of complexity.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 27, 2020 20:33:38 GMT -5
Yeah-Butler is not much of an athlete--QB of high school team, pitched a no-hitter in American Legion ball, averaged 30 points per game in basketball, school record holder in the javelin--yeah, he's just a three point shooter...…
For heaven's sale, bbc--why not just end your silly campaign against this solid player?
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Post by efg72 on Feb 27, 2020 20:44:42 GMT -5
Never said we shouldn't change, but I did say he should have had a different approach and focus. In other words, he needed to find a way for the roster to contribute and each player have a role, small or large, that added value to the team. That way they could then make progress as a team- not in wins or loses but in attitude and confidence. To suggest the majority of players don't belong, is an opinion I don't share, and unfair to each of the players. Are they all talented low-mid D1 players, probably not for the system they played this year. However, for the style they were recruited to play I believe they were a better fit. If using that same lens we can discuss and perhaps agree that it would have been great to get a higher level of player in the program over the past decade. Saying that everything wrong with the program changes overnight because a new coach comes in and creates a new version of discipline, is misguided- First thing every individual asks when they are presented with change-- how does this impact me? Embracing change takes time and it takes a talented leader to get people to follow. One guy who left went D3. Lowder is headed to another D1 program, but it’s pretty clear that BN thought RJ Johnson was a much better fit for the program. (And Nelson will be held accountable for that). There have been no grumblings about Hargris and Copeland having interest from other D1 programs. If they don’t end up at another D1 program, wouldn’t you say that it’s better that we replace them with higher caliber players than have Nelson go out of his way to try and jam a square peg into a round hole? I don’t think any program is better off losing scholarship players in a matter of months and possibly suggesting to the public something is wrong at institution X or the coach is cleaning out the roster by reducing/eliminating PT-neither option is positive given those options, the fans should say Nelson and his staff can recruit because they successfully convinced 4 players, with other offers, to commit to what some opposing coaches will say is a bad situation
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 27, 2020 21:21:01 GMT -5
Yeah-Butler is not much of an athlete--QB of high school team, pitched a no-hitter in American Legion ball, averaged 30 points per game in basketball, school record holder in the javelin--yeah, he's just a three point shooter...… For heaven's sale, bbc--why not just end your silly campaign against this solid player? Would love to see the correlation between pitching a baseball or throwing a javelin and guarding a Division 1 basketball player. Unlike those who seem to feel the need to tout whenever he has a game with good stats, I am engaged in no campaigning whatsoever.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 27, 2020 21:21:51 GMT -5
You just did
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Post by Tom on Feb 29, 2020 16:16:40 GMT -5
Austin Butler would have actually been a nice guy to have come off the bench on some of those Willard teams where offense was hard to come by at times. Coach Willard was also a fan of tough kids. Although I have no knowledge of Butler ever stealing hub caps, I think most of us agree that he's a tough kid
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 29, 2020 16:24:43 GMT -5
talented too
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Post by Tom on Feb 29, 2020 16:34:44 GMT -5
There have been no grumblings about Hargris and Copeland having interest from other D1 programs. I've been out of the loop for a few days. Has Copeland entered the portal or has there been some other change in status I've missed? Unlike Copeland, Hargis and Lowder had officially left the team and are no longer on the roster. Last I knew Copeland was on indefinite leave of absence. Might be gone, but officially announced or tweeted that he was gone for good
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Post by hchoops on Feb 29, 2020 18:35:38 GMT -5
In today’s 76-57 win mike led with 18, inc three 3s and 5 FTs Judson had 12 with one 3.
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