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Post by BeatBC on Nov 25, 2019 15:24:32 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 25, 2019 15:49:27 GMT -5
That’s really too bad as she is a very impressive person—always deals with facts and does her research.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 25, 2019 16:06:57 GMT -5
How can this happen at a progressive school? Says no one.
Nothing better than privileged students bleating about their oppression.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 25, 2019 16:07:30 GMT -5
Sad to see anyone at Holy Cross deny freedom of speech to invited guest speakers (while conspiring to deny fellow students the opportunity to hear a noted speaker). Yelling your beliefs louder does not make them correct by the level of volume alone. Can I assume that not ALL invited speakers are treated in this way at Holy Cross? Any reason why they could not have a speaker to offer a counter-point? Or, were they of the belief that their ideas had insufficient merit? Or, do the demonstrators consider their classmates so mentally slow that they would be influenced by a visiting speaker - bypassing their personal judgement? i still remember hearing some outstanding speakers in my time on the Hill. We had demonstrations when I was there, but we did not demonstrate against freedom of speech. - as seems to have been the case here.
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Post by td128 on Nov 25, 2019 16:22:07 GMT -5
Just sent this to a contact on the hill and welcome sharing it here as well:
Quick question. How and why can't the college allow an area for protesters to protest as is their 1st Amendment right while also allowing a forum for a speaker such as Heather MacDonald to share her views and engage in real debate so as to promote and pursue truth?
The fact that situations such as these persist and that the administration cannot figure out how to provide forums for individuals across all points on the spectrum does not leave a very good impression.
The simple fact is Ms. MacDonald is a highly intelligent individual. Whether one agrees with her views or not should not preclude her from an opportunity to speak and engage.
Holy Cross is better than this or it should be.
Not unlike student protesters upstaging the Harvard-Yale Football game by their sit-in at halftime, who/what gives them the right to disallow others to engage in the pleasure of watching a game. By the same token, who/what gives these students at Holy Cross the right to impede open honest discussion and debate.
I know that most alums who I engage share these feelings and are exasperated beyond description with the Holy Cross administration as a result. Truth be told, our administration looks incredibly weak and likely biased and sympathetic to these sorts of protests when they do not stand up for the pursuit of truth across the entire spectrum of ideas.
When will it ever end?
To say that this is just how college campuses are at this point in our history strikes me as an unacceptable response. We need some real leadership to stand up and lay down the ground rules so that forums on both ends of the spectrum and every point in between have a fair opportunity to speak.
I love Holy Cross more than I can put into words but situations such as these are incredibly exasperating. My knee jerk reaction is never to simply roll over and accept this stuff as "it is what it is". When weakness is displayed, intolerance takes comfort and becomes more aggressive.
Not so sure how that is consistent with the Jesuit principles of pursuit of the truth upon which the college was founded.
Feel free to share this message with whomever you might like.
#BeatMonmouth
Larry
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 25, 2019 16:43:03 GMT -5
I feel sorry for my alma mater - Heather MacDonald holds views counter to 'politically correct' ones and she is shouted down - what a sad state of affairs - I will be happy to address Fr. Boroughs anytime regarding the reduction in my contribution to the school this academic year (as insignificant as it has been)
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 25, 2019 16:57:59 GMT -5
Disappointing, but not exactly surprising.
So much for engaging in a thought-provoking and educational discussion.
In the eyes of these brainwashed students, anyone who seems to share a different viewpoint from theirs -- typically a conservative one -- is intrinsically racist, homophobic, you name the "phobic".
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 25, 2019 17:09:56 GMT -5
Perhaps a slight.modification of our "Men and women for Others"...adding "...if the others hold options that are politically "correct" by current standards and acceptable to activist minorities on campus."
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Post by matunuck on Nov 25, 2019 17:16:29 GMT -5
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Post by mm67 on Nov 25, 2019 17:43:59 GMT -5
RGS - We most certainly did demonstrate. Ban Against Retroactive Flunking (BARF) and the Jelly Donut Strike to protest the increase in donut prices come to mind. I guess we were ahead of our time. Look, most certainly, I don't agree with much of what the speaker says but I do agree with you that she should be free to say it and listened to openly. Her speech might have provided grist fo the mill. Maybe, the students wanted to get her out of there quickly so that they could get back to their studies in "Eunemerics." LoveHC
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 25, 2019 17:50:44 GMT -5
From the Spire,
From the article, the talk was to begin at 7PM, and about thirty minutes after the scheduled start, students protesting Ms. MacDonald walked out, chanting, over the course of several minutes. It appears that after the walkout, the talk, if indeed it had begun, continued, and students who were waiting outside were admitted to fill the seats vacated by the protesting students.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 25, 2019 18:09:03 GMT -5
Based on the Spires article, David Thompson did not provide the entire story. Since he more than likely was not at Seelos, he did not have the complete picture, only the slant that he wanted to portray for the generation of click bait.
Point was made and the students left Seelos after expressing their disagreement with the author. Freedom of speech and an open campus regarding dialogue was maintained. Holy Cross followed the Chicago Principles.
Quoting Paul Harvey “The Rest of the Story”, as reported by the Spires.
Can anyone provide the sponsorship organization or club that brought her to campus. Who paid the fees for her appearance?
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Post by gks on Nov 25, 2019 18:39:00 GMT -5
I feel sorry for my alma mater - Heather MacDonald holds views counter to 'politically correct' ones and she is shouted down - what a sad state of affairs - I will be happy to address Fr. Boroughs anytime regarding the reduction in my contribution to the school this academic year (as insignificant as it has been) This crap of shouting people down happens on every college campus in the US. Tolerance for differing opinions is gone. It's too bad and unAmerican. Can't believe I'm wasting my time with this.. Beat Monmouth.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 25, 2019 19:02:46 GMT -5
Dissent is as American as Apple Pie.
There is a harbor 40 miles to the east of Worcester where such dissent it has been noted as a keystone event to the formation of the American Republic. That is what is reported, and I have been told during the 69 years since I became sentient. The British East India Company was not pleased that their tea was dumped. Next time you chug down a Sam Adams at your favorite watering hole, remember he led the event on December 16, 1773, at Boston Harbor, with the Sons of Liberty to protest tyranny.
Ease up fellows, Holy Cross followed the Chicago Principles as outlined according to the link provided by matunuck.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 25, 2019 19:39:00 GMT -5
I feel sorry for my alma mater - Heather MacDonald holds views counter to 'politically correct' ones and she is shouted down - what a sad state of affairs - I will be happy to address Fr. Boroughs anytime regarding the reduction in my contribution to the school this academic year (as insignificant as it has been) This crap of shouting people down happens on every college campus in the US. Tolerance for differing opinions is gone. It's too bad and unAmerican. Can't believe I'm wasting my time with this.. Beat Monmouth. I believe it is overwhelmingly (or perhaps entirely) one side of the political divide that seeks to suppress the free speech of those with whom they disagree.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 25, 2019 19:46:57 GMT -5
It's not so much that there is something wrong with the group of students (BSU and SGA, it looked like) demonstrating their right to protest, but I would question what it exactly is they are protesting. What were the protesters seeking to accomplish? What were they protesting?
If they were just shouting in unison because they disagreed with the speaker's opinions and viewpoints, that seems pretty silly.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 25, 2019 19:50:44 GMT -5
RGS - We most certainly did demonstrate. Ban Against Retroactive Flunking (BARF) and the Jelly Donut Strike to protest the increase in donut prices come to mind. I guess we were ahead of our time. Look, most certainly, I don't agree with much of what the speaker says but I do agree with you that she should be free to say it and listened to openly. Her speech might have provided grist fo the mill. Maybe, the students wanted to get her out of there quickly so that they could get back to their studies in "Eunemerics." LoveHC I remember the BARF and the donut strike (those were tasty jelly donuts in the caf)...but milling around in front of O'Kane hardly compares to what has happened since. We didn't even have a decent sit-in by the offices in Fenwick for a few years more.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 25, 2019 20:15:20 GMT -5
One only has to look at many fundamentalist organizations regarding free speech. Suppression is on both sides. Remember the inquisition? If you are in an organization, on both sides of the spectrum, and you dissent from dogma you are seen as heretical. Case in point, being shunned and excluded if you do not totally submit to group think. Lord of the Flies comes to mind as an example.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 25, 2019 20:28:33 GMT -5
Suppression is on both sides? In 2019?
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Post by Ray on Nov 25, 2019 21:21:15 GMT -5
None of you who cite free speech arguments here seem to understand how free speech works. Yes, Ms. McDonald or anyone else has a right to not have their free speech hindered... by the government. She has no such guaranteed right to speak freely at the College. Nor is she guaranteed that there will not be consequences for the views she espouses.
Some campus organization invited her, may have paid her. Some other organization decided to protest accordingly. It's a college campus. Protests happen. The sun rose in the east today. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. But please, stop clutching your pearls. You all sound ridiculous.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 25, 2019 22:32:19 GMT -5
An interesting observation would be for a Catholic, regardless of political affiliation to go to a conservative fundamentalist church community, especially in some of the extremely rural areas of the south. In all probability that community would frown upon the free expression of your faith and the Catholic would be shunned as a full member of of that town and community’s life. I saw it first hand in a small town in North Carolina in the 1950’s and 1960’s. While the town I cite has grown and the population has been infiltrated by those Yankees (not the New York Team in the Bronx), it’s views have now moderated considerably. The same cannot be said with many other towns to the west of it in the Piedmont, Blue Ridge and Appalachia. They continue to be stratified in their believes and will use pejorative terms and old bromides in describing members of the Catholic faith.
Yes there is suppression on both sides. Think like me or you are lower than whale effluent for many that are locked into a narrow range based on their religious or secular world. Travel to some of those areas and tell them you went to a Jesuit school. They may ask you to remove your hat to see if you have horns on your head. Citing Eugène Sue’s book, Le Juif errant, the abhorrent statements expressed at its publication in Paris in 1844, one year after the founding of our beloved Alma Mater, can still be found.
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Post by Dean Wormer on Nov 25, 2019 22:56:26 GMT -5
Not sure a blogger posting half the story counts as the college being "back in the news." Not sure the Spire article is telling the full story either as it would appear that the protestors did a bit more than stand up and walk out.
There's a reason that politics is banned here - because no one is interested in listening to the other. As near as I can tell ...
A group at the college invited this woman to speak. The college allowed it. Others at the college protested in some manner interrupting the talk. The protestors left or were removed. And, it seems, the talk concluded.
Doesn't seem like anything terribly extraordinary, scandalous or news worthy to me.
The protestors missed a great opportunity to engage with someone (or possibly the group that sponsored the talk) with whom they disagree. Their loss.
But is bypassing the opportunity to speak with someone with whom you disagree terribly different than what's happening in the entire country and seen every night on Fox News, MSNBC, CNN or any other website or blog?
That's why politics is banned here.
In the future, before posting links to blogs with a clear point of view, particularly about goings-on at Holy Cross, please do a little homework to vet the story to make sure you at least have another point of view represented in the reporting. If you don't, you'll find the thread killed and yourself banned.
This thread is locked.
Carry on.
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