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Post by rgs318 on Dec 1, 2019 17:11:46 GMT -5
Are there any young dinosaurs? Interesting points. Another PL title and you should see student interest pick up as well as local Worc. interest.
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Post by matunuck on Dec 1, 2019 17:13:02 GMT -5
True colors emerge. While we are at it let’s dump hockey and women’s soccer, a sport with high concussion rates. Let’s turn the school into Oberlin. So exciting. Good grief.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 1, 2019 17:15:14 GMT -5
Are there any young dinosaurs?
Interesting points. Another PL title and you should see student interest pick up as well as local Worc. interest. If there are not then "The Land Before Time" is a work of fiction and I'd hate to think that after watching it repeatedly when my children were young...
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Post by bigfan on Dec 1, 2019 17:20:33 GMT -5
Why should we worry what the Ivy League thinks? Tell them to go pound sand.
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Post by hc89 on Dec 1, 2019 17:33:32 GMT -5
Actually, given the declining popularity of football, I could more readily see most FCS schools dropping the sport altogether. In your opinion, should Holy Cross drop football?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 17:35:59 GMT -5
Actually, given the declining popularity of football, I could more readily see most FCS schools dropping the sport altogether. In your opinion, should Holy Cross drop football? College football is not declining, if anything it is gaining in popularity compared to the NFL.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 1, 2019 17:48:16 GMT -5
Making non-medical redshirts possible in PL bylaws does not mean every team would always grant each and every possible one. (Heck, Georgetown gives 0 athletic schollies and they are permitted by PL bylaws to give 60). Or that every kid who might be eligible would even want one. We'd be about as likely to lose (for anyone that cares) an Ivy opponent here and there over a PL non-medical redshirt program as we are over our current medical redshirt program (which is to say, not likely - again, for anyone that cares.). Would benefit our program a bit - would have been helpful, as an example, to see a running/throwing Geoff Wade in there at QB this year (IMHO). (He played 0 games as a frosh.) The Hoyas have every top ranked graduate/legal program for their players to advance. One of my former players was a beneficiary
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 1, 2019 18:05:58 GMT -5
In your opinion, should Holy Cross drop football? College football is not declining, if anything it is gaining in popularity compared to the NFL. College football attendance is down slightly over the past decade. I don't know whether there are more games played now (longer schedules or perhaps more bowl games) but here are the total attendance numbers for last year and 10 years back D-1 FBS 2008= 37.5 MM 2018= 36.7 MM D-1 FCS 2008= 6.0 MM 2018= 5.3 MM D-2 2008= 6.0MM 2018= 5.3MM D-3 2008= 2.2 MM 2018= 2.1 MM I don't know whether TV ratings have changed--have to figure a lot more people watching on line now than 10 years ago
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Post by efg72 on Dec 1, 2019 18:07:49 GMT -5
You are a blessed man
I had six HS teammates and friends play in the ND-MSU game and during my junior year we took a break during our 2x basketball practices to watch that game
I didn’t love ND, but came to love and treasure HC
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 1, 2019 18:19:23 GMT -5
The attendance numbers are interesting. Definitely a decline but enough people still like it and go to the games. I saw it firsthand. Winning will get bigger crowds. Potentially moving from the PL for football will draw some bigger crowds, night games, etc. One way to get bigger crowds is the people that do go need to tell others/friends etc to get to the game. Also to play regional opponents.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 1, 2019 18:21:48 GMT -5
I think coach Chesney and the expected success of the team will help HC build its attendance over the next few years.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 1, 2019 18:55:34 GMT -5
IMO NMRS = Slippery Slope. Hope it is never adopted by the PL. Don't expect it. PL competitiveness in FCS not an issue for the PL schools nor should it be a concern. FCS is nowhere f-ball, anyway. Little/no interest nationally. Who cares? Alums care and I do respect them but do disagree. LoveHC Why is is a slippery slope? There is nothing in the college rule book that says you must graduate in eight semesters or else you're kicked out. Similarly, if a greenshirt or a grayshirt can succeed in the classroom, what's the real problem? Are we worried merely about perceptions when each of these schools are already graduating 90% of more of students as a rule? I believe HC specifies that you get to matriculate eight semesters, not nine or ten. (AFAIK, the only exception is for those students in a 3:2 program.) The conundrum is that if you were to redshirt a freshman and he matriculates, he doesn't gain a fifth year of eligibility. If he doesn't matriculate, he can't practice. I see little value in giving a non-medical redshirt to an upperclassman.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 1, 2019 19:22:31 GMT -5
Why is is a slippery slope? There is nothing in the college rule book that says you must graduate in eight semesters or else you're kicked out. Similarly, if a greenshirt or a grayshirt can succeed in the classroom, what's the real problem? Are we worried merely about perceptions when each of these schools are already graduating 90% of more of students as a rule? I believe HC specifies that you get to matriculate eight semesters, not nine or ten. (AFAIK, the only exception is for those students in a 3:2 program.) The conundrum is that if you were to redshirt a freshman and he matriculates, he doesn't gain a fifth year of eligibility. If he doesn't matriculate, he can't practice. I see little value in giving a non-medical redshirt to an upperclassman. Since we already have (at HC) the successful and cost effective football medical redshirt process (essentially the kid withdraws 2nd semester senior year and comes back for one semester his ‘5th’ year), it could be used as a non medical redshirt process. Note, that is eight semesters.
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Post by gks on Dec 1, 2019 20:40:22 GMT -5
How many regular students take more than 8 semesters to graduate? Are they shunned out of school if they can't graduate in 8?
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 1, 2019 20:40:56 GMT -5
PL rules do not provide an allowance for non-medical redshirts. Slippery slope: In no [particular order - Medical redshirts to non-medical redshirts with freshmen waiting out the year, change 8 semester policy, more scholarships, loosening admissions , some grad courses to allow for grad transfers, less rigorous classes to allow for practice time, CAA, spend more $. Mission creep. Every individual step makes a certain amount of sense in relation to the others as one step invariably leads to pressures for another step in the interests of maintaining competitiveness. Sure, some schools eg ND, JMU may be fine schools in many ways but they are not HC. What does not make sense to me is that these steps would change the very nature of HC in that the school would be changing its academics in many ways to meet the perceived needs of the football team. It would result in the school lowering its academic standards in many ways for instance admissions, academic rigor, money spent on athletics instead of academics, etc. It's a question not only of policies but of emphasis and the academic philosophy of the school which lies at the core of its essence. HC would move from from an academics first, sports second institution to athletics first, academic second. School-wide decisions would be motivated by and based on the needs of its athletics program. It would be thoroughly and foundationally transformative. Thus, HC loses its niche as a small rigorous, academics first, LAC. I hope my explanation was clear if not convincing. LoveHC Why can't you have both and try to build a college sports power in an area where no college sports are doing nothing? Holy Cross is not the IVY's academically. So lets stop trying to get into the Ivy League. We don't want to be like them in sports either. With all their restrictions.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 1, 2019 20:52:15 GMT -5
Slippery slope to greater emphasis on football. Here are a few other suggestions culled from this board: Move to the CAA a conference with a greater emphasis on football; Ease academic restrictions and admit less academically qualified recruits; Lighten academic load; Change school calendar to accommodate players; Add some graduate courses to attract 5th year transfers; More f-ball scholarships; Spend more money (At the expense of academics? F-ball losses $.Where does the $ come from?)and so on. I'm sure there are other changes some would recommend. - No PL school is allowed to take graduate transfers, so HC couldn't attract them without a rule change that is unlikely to happen. - PL football is only three scholarships short of the max allowed under NCAA rules, so very few could be added.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 1, 2019 20:57:50 GMT -5
In your opinion, should Holy Cross drop football? College football is not declining, if anything it is gaining in popularity compared to the NFL. In 2018, average attendance among the 129 FBS teams reached its lowest point since 1996. And attendance in four of the five P5 conferences hit the lowest attendance marks in over 15 years. Attendance has fallen in seven of the last eight years.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 1, 2019 21:09:18 GMT -5
PL rules do not provide an allowance for non-medical redshirts. Slippery slope: In no [particular order - Medical redshirts to non-medical redshirts with freshmen waiting out the year, change 8 semester policy, more scholarships, loosening admissions , some grad courses to allow for grad transfers, less rigorous classes to allow for practice time, CAA, spend more $. Mission creep. Every individual step makes a certain amount of sense in relation to the others as one step invariably leads to pressures for another step in the interests of maintaining competitiveness. Sure, some schools eg ND, JMU may be fine schools in many ways but they are not HC. What does not make sense to me is that these steps would change the very nature of HC in that the school would be changing its academics in many ways to meet the perceived needs of the football team. It would result in the school lowering its academic standards in many ways for instance admissions, academic rigor, money spent on athletics instead of academics, etc. It's a question not only of policies but of emphasis and the academic philosophy of the school which lies at the core of its essence. HC would move from from an academics first, sports second institution to athletics first, academic second. School-wide decisions would be motivated by and based on the needs of its athletics program. It would be thoroughly and foundationally transformative. Thus, HC loses its niche as a small rigorous, academics first, LAC. I hope my explanation was clear if not convincing. LoveHC While I am undecided on the practice of redshirting, we would be making an exception for a handful of students from our total enrollment of 3k plus students. Given the ever changing world of college experiences today, I am sure HC and other institutions make significant concessions for a larger population of students for a variety of reasons. I am willing to ague the athletes, scholarship and non scholarship, give plenty back to the community, so in lieu of financial compensation being discussed ( I oppose) around the country, an extra semester might be a fair solution. or maybe not food for thought
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Post by hcpride on Dec 1, 2019 21:16:28 GMT -5
PL rules do not provide an allowance for non-medical redshirts. Slippery slope: In no [particular order - Medical redshirts to non-medical redshirts with freshmen waiting out the year, change 8 semester policy, more scholarships, loosening admissions , some grad courses to allow for grad transfers, less rigorous classes to allow for practice time, CAA, spend more $. Mission creep. Every individual step makes a certain amount of sense in relation to the others as one step invariably leads to pressures for another step in the interests of maintaining competitiveness. Sure, some schools eg ND, JMU may be fine schools in many ways but they are not HC. What does not make sense to me is that these steps would change the very nature of HC in that the school would be changing its academics in many ways to meet the perceived needs of the football team. It would result in the school lowering its academic standards in many ways for instance admissions, academic rigor, money spent on athletics instead of academics, etc. It's a question not only of policies but of emphasis and the academic philosophy of the school which lies at the core of its essence. HC would move from from an academics first, sports second institution to athletics first, academic second. School-wide decisions would be motivated by and based on the needs of its athletics program. It would be thoroughly and foundationally transformative. Thus, HC loses its niche as a small rigorous, academics first, LAC. I hope my explanation was clear if not convincing. LoveHC Were you against the PL changing its rules and allowing full schollies a few years ago?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 22:05:37 GMT -5
College football is not declining, if anything it is gaining in popularity compared to the NFL. In 2018, average attendance among the 129 FBS teams reached its lowest point since 1996. And attendance in four of the five P5 conferences hit the lowest attendance marks in over 15 years. Attendance has fallen in seven of the last eight years. That's because there is a thing called 4k TV now. Who wants to go to one game when you can watch eight at the same time while breaking it down in All-22?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 22:06:34 GMT -5
If Holy Cross wants to build their own brand, they should go to Villanova and take notes.
The Ivy's extreme left agenda will lower their stock in the future, so we got to strike while the fire is hot.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 1, 2019 22:11:08 GMT -5
How many regular students take more than 8 semesters to graduate? Are they shunned out of school if they can't graduate in 8? A not insignificant number of regular students take more than 8 semesters to graduate for a variety of reasons. Academic struggles (taking too many Fs and/or Ws), personal issues, deaths in the family, disciplinary issues, illness, switching majors late. It happens for a variety of reasons. As far as it relates to football red-shirting, I have a hard time believing that the academic integrity of the college would be compromised because a dozen guys every year extend their scholarship Holy Cross education into a 9th semester. Even if not required, I am sure that many a student athlete would take it upon themselves to add a concentration, minor or double major with the additional credit hours available to them. Basketball medical red-shirts not only add a 9th but also a 10th semester to their HC education because the season traverses fall and spring.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 22:12:55 GMT -5
How many regular students take more than 8 semesters to graduate? Are they shunned out of school if they can't graduate in 8? A not insignificant number of regular students take more than 8 semesters to graduate for a variety of reasons. Academic struggles (taking too many Fs and/or Ws), personal issues, deaths in the family, disciplinary issues, illness, switching majors late. It happens for a variety of reasons. As far as it relates to football red-shirting, I have a hard time believing that the academic integrity of the college would be compromised because a dozen guys every year extend their scholarship Holy Cross education into a 9th semester. Even if not required, I am sure that many a student athlete would take it upon themselves to add a concentration, minor or double major with the additional credit hours available to them. Basketball medical red-shirts not only add a 9th but also a 10th semester to their HC education because the season traverses fall and spring. Holy Cross gave up on their "academic integrity" when they added "sociology" as a major. haha. Professor Adam still there?
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Post by bison137 on Dec 1, 2019 22:19:53 GMT -5
In 2018, average attendance among the 129 FBS teams reached its lowest point since 1996. And attendance in four of the five P5 conferences hit the lowest attendance marks in over 15 years. Attendance has fallen in seven of the last eight years. That's because there is a thing called 4k TV now. Who wants to go to one game when you can watch eight at the same time while breaking it down in All-22? TV ratings, when comparable to games 10 or 20 years ago, have dropped.
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Post by jkh67 on Dec 1, 2019 22:21:54 GMT -5
The PL is obviously a weak athletic conference. This year's out-of-conference football results proved it yet again. And as for basketball (Bucknell aside), the less said the better. But the PL was never entirely about athletics. And, even if it was, where would HC go from here to upgrade athletics? The only quasi-realistic option would be the CAA for both sports. Whether the CAA would be interested in HC in either sport is doubtful at this point. And, even if there was interest, you'd have to ask whether associating HC with what is basically a collection of mid-sized state universities from Maine to North Carolina would make sense for our College.
I don't believe there's any interest in abandoning the PL among the folks who run the College. And arguably with good reason. I believe we're in the PL to stay. If so, what we need to do is to encourage the administration to do what it can to improve PL athletic quality across the board and do everything we can to make HC a marquee program in the League.
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