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Post by longsuffering on Dec 11, 2019 17:54:53 GMT -5
Meat- I would suggest that you ignore HC87's Villanova obsession as do most on this board. He is merely repeating his largely discredited refrain about Villanova due to some prior connection with the Philly school in an effort to tweak HC alums. Many of us had this out with him in the past and as I said his views were largely debunked. For some reason he repeats his silly claims.Most of us know to pay him no mind and dismiss his claims out of hand. The NESCAC is a conference of fine schools. Amherst and Williams do lead the pack with Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Colby, Bates, Middlebury, Hamilton, and Tufts not far behind. However Connecticut College,Trinity and Union certainly are fine schools much in the same category or slightly behind HC. I had always thought it would have been a great landing spot for HC but as I was told by an HC alum the conference was not interested in expanding and "HC could not get past the front gate." I think most on this board are happy that HC did not get in. LoveHC We have played NESCAC teams from time to time in some of the minor sports. Student headline writers prayed for an HC victory against one of the Maine teams so once in their career they could compose: "Holy Cross Skaters/Harriers/Rowers/Swimmers/Booters Master Bates" Hopefully responsible senior editors of the Crusader left that to the more ireverent staff of "TODAY NEWS" sold for a nickel in front of Kimball.
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Post by crusader12 on Dec 11, 2019 18:46:14 GMT -5
Twas the night before Christmas and all through the hart, the Crusaders played UMass Boston and let out a great big fart!!!!!!!!!
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Post by hcpride on Dec 11, 2019 18:53:05 GMT -5
Holy Cross is now a safety school for kids applying to BC and Villanova Meat....it ain't pretty You have to know that would trigger at least one person. Next you’ll be writing BU and Northeastern now require stronger grades/test scores for admission than HC!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 11, 2019 19:07:57 GMT -5
Holy Cross is now a safety school for kids applying to BC and Villanova Meat....it ain't pretty MAYBE times have changed in the 13 years since my HS clasmates and I were looking at colleges, but as of 2006 Holy Cross was ABSOLUTLEY NOT a safety school for Villanova. Holy Cross was definitely a more selective school at that time. Note I have better things to do in life than study US News & World Report rankings and statistics so for all I know Nova has grown in popularity since my HS years. BC is a different animal. Its a national university in a major city and definitely more secular. Maybe back when you guys applied to college it was a safety school for HC but definitely not during my time. BC, from what I've seen, is a safety school for the Ivies and Notre Dame. But honestly for all the talk about how not taking the "red pill" and joining the Big East has hurt us as far as name recognition, I implore you: Outside of the obvious major national universities Notre Dame, Georgetown and BC, name a Catholic college or university with a greater academic reputation than Holy Cross... Villanova - maybe an equal AT BEST IMO Fordham - definitely an equal IMO Loyola (MD) - NOPE Catholic - maybe a hidden gem but no Providence - close-ish but no Fairfield - no DePaul- no Marquette - no Gonzaga - no Loyola Chicago - no Creighton - no Maybe one of the California schools -- Santa Clara? Is Pepperdine catholic?
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Post by bison137 on Dec 11, 2019 20:03:24 GMT -5
The NESCAC simply was not interested in adding more schools and in fact they have not taken this step nor have any plans to do so. 11 schools - 10 game asked works in football. NESCAC schools only play 9 football games. Connecticut College doesn’t have football.
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Post by Ignutz on Dec 11, 2019 20:12:45 GMT -5
Holy Cross is now a safety school for kids applying to BC and Villanova Meat....it ain't pretty MAYBE times have changed in the 13 years since my HS clasmates and I were looking at colleges, but as of 2006 Holy Cross was ABSOLUTLEY NOT a safety school for Villanova. Holy Cross was definitely a more selective school at that time. Note I have better things to do in life than study US News & World Report rankings and statistics so for all I know Nova has grown in popularity since my HS years. BC is a different animal. Its a national university in a major city and definitely more secular. Maybe back when you guys applied to college it was a safety school for HC but definitely not during my time. BC, from what I've seen, is a safety school for the Ivies and Notre Dame. But honestly for all the talk about how not taking the "red pill" and joining the Big East has hurt us as far as name recognition, I implore you: Outside of the obvious major national universities Notre Dame, Georgetown and BC, name a Catholic college or university with a greater academic reputation than Holy Cross... Villanova - maybe an equal AT BEST IMO Fordham - definitely an equal IMO Loyola (MD) - NOPE Catholic - maybe a hidden gem but no Providence - close-ish but no Fairfield - no DePaul- no Marquette - no Gonzaga - no Loyola Chicago - no Creighton - no Maybe one of the California schools -- Santa Clara? Is Pepperdine catholic? I STRONGLY DISAGREE that Providence is “close-ish”, and I wouldn’t call Fordham an equal. I would rank Fordham as an equal with PC, and on a par with Fairfield, DePaul and Marquette.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2019 20:36:34 GMT -5
Sarasota - It is my understanding that many years ago 80's-90' HC wanted to drop to DivIII in an effort to join the NESCAC. They were willing to make the changes necessary to compete in the conference. The school made a very serious effort. Unfortunately, the school was rejected out-of-hand by the NESCAC. In deference to Brother Occam, the simplest reason most likely is correct. The NESCAC simply was not interested in adding more schools and in fact they have not taken this step nor have any plans to do so. 11 schools - 10 game asked works in football. HC would have been a great addition and IMO the school would have benefitted greatly. A win-win... As you have pointed out, the recent expansion of facilities and increase in spending on athletics, namely a greater emphasis on sports, makes a move to DivIII not feasible. I think that the academics first PL is a good fit under the circumstances. The glory years of the 30's - early 60's are long gone, never to be repeated nor wished for by most alums. Nonetheless, there is a constant drumbeat from some alums for more emphasis to a higher FCS/mid- major level. Your little academy is doing ok. Now, let's win some games. LoveHC I would suggest it is merely a myth that was promoted by JEB as he still wanted IL consideration. The Board wanted athletic and academic excellence but JEB wanted only IL. HC is a special institution that holds values important to Christian principles, intellectual curiosity and developing the mind, body and spirit. These are not accepted values by the IL or NESAC so I find this conversation a real waste of time our experiences at HC were important to each of us or we wouldn’t spend time on this board! Being part of the intellectually arrogant society was important to JEB and others, but is of little or no interest to me or in the interest of our graduates! let’s discuss ways of helping OUR SCHOOL find an identity that excels in academics, athletics and spiritual needs for the future! If we aren’t part of a solution with our ideas and in some cases our treasures, then perhaps we are the problem. Merry Christmas to all but please let’s stop the nonsense about only being a great academic institution. We are far more and all of us know it-most on this Board were trained to be men for others, today we are blessed to be men and women for others. Let’s use that to our advantage
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 11, 2019 20:39:58 GMT -5
Fordham is definitely head and shoulders better than Fairfield, DePaul or Marquette.
I would put it on par with HC because of its grad programs and the strength of its alumni network. Look at any major firm in NYC and there are ties to Fordham. While HC is an amazing incubator for getting students into med school, law school and other grad programs to inculde TFA and JVC, Fordham is much stronger in the "career services" dept. Getting kids into top internships and finance type jobs out of college.
And my opinion is that of someone who grew up in Fordham's backyard and pased by the campus every morning on my commute to high school. Went to games and masses there etc. I was never that impressed or awestruck by Fordham growing up b/c of its proximity, as if it was Bronx Community College.
In fact I was one who viewed Fordham as a safety school for Holy Cross. And Fordham gave me a better aid package than HC. But in my adult life I have without a doubt grown more appreciative of how great a school Fordham is. I am happy to say it is peer school of my alma mater.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 11, 2019 21:10:59 GMT -5
My M.A. and PhD Candidacy is from Fordham, but I have no direct experience of the undergrad school. NYC is a magnet for top faculty and I'm sure FU benefits from that. Wall Street and the top law firms in Manhattan have lots of Rams.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2019 21:15:34 GMT -5
It is a peer school because of values-that should be our focus for the future of basketball and non football sports— a Jesuit league
build on your strengths!!
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2019 21:18:06 GMT -5
Holy Cross is now a safety school for kids applying to BC and Villanova Meat....it ain't pretty You have to know that would trigger at least one person. Next you’ll be writing BU and Northeastern now require stronger grades/test scores for admission than HC! Sadly, I think some here think you were being facetious posting that hcpride...BU and NU are definitely harder to get into than HC today.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 11, 2019 21:20:19 GMT -5
MAYBE times have changed in the 13 years since my HS clasmates and I were looking at colleges, but as of 2006 Holy Cross was ABSOLUTLEY NOT a safety school for Villanova. Holy Cross was definitely a more selective school at that time. Note I have better things to do in life than study US News & World Report rankings and statistics so for all I know Nova has grown in popularity since my HS years. BC is a different animal. Its a national university in a major city and definitely more secular. Maybe back when you guys applied to college it was a safety school for HC but definitely not during my time. BC, from what I've seen, is a safety school for the Ivies and Notre Dame. But honestly for all the talk about how not taking the "red pill" and joining the Big East has hurt us as far as name recognition, I implore you: Outside of the obvious major national universities Notre Dame, Georgetown and BC, name a Catholic college or university with a greater academic reputation than Holy Cross... Villanova - maybe an equal AT BEST IMO Fordham - definitely an equal IMO Loyola (MD) - NOPE Catholic - maybe a hidden gem but no Providence - close-ish but no Fairfield - no DePaul- no Marquette - no Gonzaga - no Loyola Chicago - no Creighton - no Maybe one of the California schools -- Santa Clara? Is Pepperdine catholic? I STRONGLY DISAGREE that Providence is “close-ish”, and I wouldn’t call Fordham an equal. I would rank Fordham as an equal with PC, and on a par with Fairfield, DePaul and Marquette. When asked why he attended Fordham for the first two years of college, the older sister of a man who is in the news quite a bit, a fixture on Twitter and has quite the mop of orange hair said: "that's where he got accepted." HC is duly proud of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas '71, even if he might give some Profs heartburn. But how does Fordham handle their two year attendee who entered the Portal and transferred to the Wharton School at Penn? Do they acknowledge the connection? Are they proud? Can they take any credit for having educated one of the 46(?) US Presidents for two years?
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2019 21:37:13 GMT -5
You have to know that would trigger at least one person. Next you’ll be writing BU and Northeastern now require stronger grades/test scores for admission than HC! Sadly, I think some here think you were being facetious posting that hcpride...BU and NU are definitely harder to get into than HC today. My point is none of that matters focus on what makes a HC experience better than ratings everything is compared to what and we must ask the right questions which is something all of us older grads were taught, and I hoped passed on to all classes in the 80s and beyond
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 11, 2019 21:39:21 GMT -5
Fordham is definitely head and shoulders better than Fairfield, DePaul or Marquette. I would put it on par with HC because of its grad programs and the strength of its alumni network. Look at any major firm in NYC and there are ties to Fordham. While HC is an amazing incubator for getting students into med school, law school and other grad programs to inculde TFA and JVC, Fordham is much stronger in the "career services" dept. Getting kids into top internships and finance type jobs out of college. And my opinion is that of someone who grew up in Fordham's backyard and pased by the campus every morning on my commute to high school. Went to games and masses there etc. I was never that impressed or awestruck by Fordham growing up b/c of its proximity, as if it was Bronx Community College. In fact I was one who viewed Fordham as a safety school for Holy Cross. And Fordham gave me a better aid package than HC. But in my adult life I have without a doubt grown more appreciative of how great a school Fordham is. I am happy to say it is peer school of my alma mater. Nice to see you speak highly of another Jesuit Institution. I can say that among a group of relatively recent Catholic HS grads in California, Fordham and BC were of great interest. There is a revival of great American cities as people are focusing more on the history, culture and other opportunities as opposed to say the crime and decay of older US cities as they did a few decades ago. HC has Worcester, but Wormtomwn is not Boston, NY, Philadelphia, Washington or sadly even Providence on the hip scale, although it is on the rise I would say.
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Post by cmo on Dec 11, 2019 21:47:48 GMT -5
Final from tonight :
Tufts 71 UMass-Boston 49
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2019 21:50:39 GMT -5
Sadly, I think some here think you were being facetious posting that hcpride...BU and NU are definitely harder to get into than HC today. My point is none of that matters focus on what makes a HC experience better than ratings everything is compared to what and we must ask the right questions which is something all of us older grads were taught, and I hoped passed on to all classes in the 80s and beyond The thing is...it kinda does...not using myself as an example Lord knows, but just statistically, we aren't getting as strong a student academically that we did in the 70s and 80s....ultimately they aren't getting into the bettah med/law/biz etc grad schools (in the same #s anyway) that HC grads did then for one example. HC is still a great school, but many here are blind to the academic prestige slippage it has endured in the last 25 or 30 years or so.
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Post by jflare on Dec 11, 2019 22:00:52 GMT -5
Final from tonight : Tufts 71 UMass-Boston 49 I guess that means if Tufts comes to the Hart center next year they beat us by 26 Yikes !!! How could not coach not figure out a way to beat that team last night..... Just win it for God sakes who cares by how much just win the damn thing.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2019 22:00:56 GMT -5
My point is none of that matters focus on what makes a HC experience better than ratings everything is compared to what and we must ask the right questions which is something all of us older grads were taught, and I hoped passed on to all classes in the 80s and beyond The thing is...it kinda does...not using myself as an example Lord knows, but just statistically, we aren't getting as strong a student academically that we did in the 70s and 80s....ultimately they aren't getting into the bettah med/law/biz etc grad schools (in the same #s anyway) that HC grads did then for one example. HC is still a great school, but many here are blind to the academic prestige slippage it has endured in the last 25 or 30 years or so. Don’t disagree but we are different and our differences make us way more attractive if we message it correctly
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 11, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -5
Final from tonight : Tufts 71 UMass-Boston 49 I don't take much stake in that outcome. We were UMB's Super Bowl during their out of conference. And they had to play a game 24 hours later. Of course there was a let-down.
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Post by hceconhist on Dec 11, 2019 22:13:38 GMT -5
My point is none of that matters focus on what makes a HC experience better than ratings everything is compared to what and we must ask the right questions which is something all of us older grads were taught, and I hoped passed on to all classes in the 80s and beyond The thing is...it kinda does...not using myself as an example Lord knows, but just statistically, we aren't getting as strong a student academically that we did in the 70s and 80s....ultimately they aren't getting into the bettah med/law/biz etc grad schools (in the same #s anyway) that HC grads did then for one example. HC is still a great school, but many here are blind to the academic prestige slippage it has endured in the last 25 or 30 years or so. HC is consistently ranked as the #2 or #3 Catholic undergraduate college in the country - above BC, Georgetown, and everyone except ND. I'm not sure how we could have possibly "slipped." FWIW, I graduated from HC this decade, and HC is certainly NOT considered a safety school to those that you mentioned. Anecdotally, I have a good job in DC because a fellow HC alumnus (who pretty much hired me on the spot during my cold call) understood the value of my education. I have no problem debating whether Fr. Brooks made the right decision, or whether the current administration values athletics appropriately. However, it is disingenuous at best to suggest that HC academics have declined because of our presence in the PL.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2019 22:15:07 GMT -5
Final from tonight : Tufts 71 UMass-Boston 49 I don't take much stake in that outcome. We were UMB's Super Bowl during their out of conference. And they had to play a game 24 hours later. Of course there was a let-down. So you think we could beat the Jumbos then? Gallows humor....
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Post by sarasota on Dec 12, 2019 1:34:33 GMT -5
HC alums: Clarence Thomas.....but also John Geoghan, the notorious pedophile killed-in-prison priest, studied at HC. FU alums: Vince Lombardi.....but also John Brennan, former head of the CIA (my opinion of him is not printable), G. Gordon Liddy, the mastermind of the Watergate breakin, the only one who did prison time but refused to rat out anyone. Liddy is also a fellow alum of mine from St Benedicts Prep in Newark. Also, John Mitchell, Nixon's AG who also did prison time for his role in Watergate. As a sidelight, Representative Peter Rodino, who led the Nixon Impeachment Committee, lived a few blocks from me in Newark. I delivered his mail during my college summers. He is noted for his attempts to keep the process non-partisan.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 12, 2019 4:48:18 GMT -5
You have to know that would trigger at least one person. Next you’ll be writing BU and Northeastern now require stronger grades/test scores for admission than HC! Sadly, I think some here think you were being facetious posting that hcpride...BU and NU are definitely harder to get into than HC today. Obviously, entrance requirements at BC, Villanova, BU, and Northeastern are stiffer (grades/scores) than those at HC today. (It is true things were not always this way...in fact, things were once the opposite.) I was being funny...because I know that some folks don't realize/accept that. I suspect other folks are a bit more current on info such as that.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 12, 2019 7:05:44 GMT -5
I think the academic "slippage" occurred 50 years ago this June.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 12, 2019 8:19:53 GMT -5
The NESCAC simply was not interested in adding more schools and in fact they have not taken this step nor have any plans to do so. 11 schools - 10 game asked works in football. NESCAC schools only play 9 football games. Connecticut College doesn’t have football. It was 8 games (one team out of the 9 possible opponents skipped) forever. Just the last two years did it become 9. They're not going to 10 any time soon, I can assure you. Union was a founding member but exited in 1977, soon replaced by Conn. College (sans football). Believe Union wanted no constraints over its hockey program.
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