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Post by longsuffering on Jan 14, 2020 13:53:48 GMT -5
Our NCAA/NIT years under RW were in an eight team league iirc. At least I remember playing BU as a tight non-conference game each year that seemed to always go down to the wire.
Being in a one bid twelve team league takes moxie.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 13:58:56 GMT -5
If Fordham leaves the A-10, there is only two places they end up IMO.
1) CAA (which means we'd lose them as a football associate) 2) Patriot League
I can't imagine the Fordham administration wanting to plant Ram athletics into the MAAC. Fordham is a national university and I would like to believe that they would prefer to be affiliated with the academic likes of the Patriot League as opposed to a bunch of has-been Catholic commuter colleges in Metro NY and Buffalo.
The CAA has been poached at will by the A-10 the last 15 years (Richmond, VCU, George Mason) and you'd think they'd be open to bringing in an institution like Fordham. There was a rumor a couple years back that the CAA was in discussions with Fairfield about all-sports membership. Any chance the A-10 would replace Fordham with Hofstra to keep a footprint in the NYC area?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 14:05:31 GMT -5
Grasso to Fordham just smells like deja vu. Basically an impossible job.
I said it before. If Fordham wanted to really give its program one last chance to make big-time basketball work they would try to bring in Rick Pitino. He's a NY-guy, St. Dom's alum, looking to redeem himself, probably would take the (major) pay cut versus what he was making prior in order to close out his career on a positive note. Pundits have short memories and always love a good comeback story.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 14, 2020 14:08:20 GMT -5
Pitino would take the job, no matter the pay. Fr. McShane, the President, would never hire him.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 14:14:07 GMT -5
Pitino would take the job, no matter the pay. Fr. McShane, the President, would never hire him.I agree, which just goes to show that Fordham has no business trying to play big-time college basketball. Unfortunately, when you are an academic school swimming in that pond, you're athletic decision-making has to mirror that of Georgetown or Providence rather than Columbia or Holy Cross if you're looking to compete.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 14, 2020 14:16:43 GMT -5
If Fordham leaves the A-10, there is only two places they end up IMO. 1) CAA (which means we'd lose them as a football associate) 2) Patriot League I can't imagine the Fordham administration wanting to plant Ram athletics into the MAAC. Fordham is a national university and I would like to believe that they would prefer to be affiliated with the academic likes of the Patriot League as opposed to a bunch of has-been Catholic commuter colleges in Metro NY and Buffalo. Fordham was in the MAAC with many/most of the same schools you refer to.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 14, 2020 14:19:43 GMT -5
Musings from the Fordham camp that they’d like to bring in Jared Grasso from Bryant as their next head coach. Grasso was an assistant at Fordham under Pecora and is known as a very good recruiter. Considering he worked under Cluess at Iona for several years, I’m not sure if hchoops would be a fan of his. When Wittenberg was fired at Fordham, Grasso became the interim. He was 0-16 in the A10.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 14:20:54 GMT -5
If Fordham leaves the A-10, there is only two places they end up IMO. 1) CAA (which means we'd lose them as a football associate) 2) Patriot League I can't imagine the Fordham administration wanting to plant Ram athletics into the MAAC. Fordham is a national university and I would like to believe that they would prefer to be affiliated with the academic likes of the Patriot League as opposed to a bunch of has-been Catholic commuter colleges in Metro NY and Buffalo. Fordham was in the MAAC with many/most of the same schools you refer to. True but that was a MAAC that included Holy Cross, La Salle, Army and maybe another that I'm forgetting. I could be wrong but I see Fordham wanting to align istelf with Holy Cross, Lehigh, Bucknell, Army, Navy and BU ahead of Iona, Marist, Niagara, Siena and Rider. I just don;t see Fordham institutionally wanting to be perceived as "equals" with local rivals Iona and Manhattan. Maybe I'm overthinking a little. FORDHAM WAS ALSO IN THE PL FOR ALL SPORTS MORE RECENTLY THAN IT WAS IN THE MAAC.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 14, 2020 14:28:33 GMT -5
Fordham was in the MAAC with many/most of the same schools you refer to. True but that was a MAAC that included Holy Cross, La Salle, Army and maybe another that I'm forgetting. I could be wrong but I see Fordham wanting to align istelf with Holy Cross, Lehigh, Bucknell, Army, Navy and BU ahead of Iona, Marist, Niagara, Siena and Rider. I just don;t see Fordham institutionally wanting to be perceived as "equals" with local rivals Iona and Manhattan. Maybe I'm overthinking a little. FORDHAM WAS ALSO IN THE PL FOR ALL SPORTS MORE RECENTLY THAN IT WAS IN THE MAAC.I know, and I believe they should return. Whether their moneyed and unrealistic alums agree is the question. i want to see HC play there every season
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Post by hc87 on Jan 14, 2020 14:33:07 GMT -5
Pitino would take the job, no matter the pay. Fr. McShane, the President, would never hire him. Essentially what happened at a certain school located on Mt St James last year.... true story.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 14, 2020 14:44:08 GMT -5
In minor sports, Fordham has done quite well in the A-10. Their softball team is a perennial power and has gone to the NCAA's numerous times including 2019 - their baseball team won the A-10 in '19 and their men's soccer team won the A-10 awhile back - I'm not saying this makes a dent in the concern the A-10 brass must have over their ineptitude on the hardwood I think you may want to check that. They have improved in recent years, and softball success in the last 5-7 years is an exception, but I recall counting their championships around 2015 when they were 22-23 seasons into their A10 membership and recall fewer than 10 championships across all sports. Might even have been fewer than 5, but won't swear to that. And I know we're not ones to cast stones, but I'd bet we have at least twice the success (as measured by league championships) across all sports in the PL as they've had since leaving the PL for the A10.
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Post by JRGNYR on Jan 14, 2020 14:52:27 GMT -5
If on the off chance the PL expanded, whether it's Fordham or not, it wouldn't necessarily need to expand to 12 schools. With 11, you can still play a double round-robin schedule of 20 conference games. Expansion to 12 schools is where it gets dicey. I don't think any conference plays more than a 20-game league schedule.
If the PL went to 12 schools, I'd rather see them go to a divisional format. Two divisions of six teams each. You play each team in your division twice (10 games), then you play six crossover games with the other division, 3 at home, 3 on the road, alternating every year. 16 game conference schedule and still allows plenty of opportunities for non-conference scheduling. If there's a feeling that's either too few conference games or too many non-con games, you can play two opponents within your division three times to get to 18 games, which is where the league is now.
But this is all purely speculation.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 14, 2020 15:07:30 GMT -5
CHC, I was referring to 'recent' success which far exceeds what HC has accomplished - their 2017 men's soccer team won the A-10, then defeated St. Francis (NY), Duke, and Virginia in the NCAA's before losing to North Carolina in the 'final four' - their team this year went to the A10 final and lost to URI on penalty kicks.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 15:10:31 GMT -5
In minor sports, Fordham has done quite well in the A-10. Their softball team is a perennial power and has gone to the NCAA's numerous times including 2019 - their baseball team won the A-10 in '19 and their men's soccer team won the A-10 awhile back - I'm not saying this makes a dent in the concern the A-10 brass must have over their ineptitude on the hardwood I think you may want to check that. They have improved in recent years, and softball success in the last 5-7 years is an exception, but I recall counting their championships around 2015 when they were 22-23 seasons into their A10 membership and recall fewer than 10 championships across all sports. Might even have been fewer than 5, but won't swear to that. And I know we're not ones to cast stones, but I'd bet we have at least twice the success (as measured by league championships) across all sports in the PL as they've had since leaving the PL for the A10. Careful. I think you're underestimating how bad we are at minor sports here on Mt St James. The 2006-2007 academic year was a very good one for HC athletics with 3 teams winning Patriot League Championships (M Basketball, W Basketball, W Lacrosse). We also had the Men's Golf individual champ that year. Since then, we have had the following: 2009 Football 2016 Men's Basketball 2017 Baseball 2019 Football And we sponsor every sport under the sun. Let me know if I missed one somewhere
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 14, 2020 15:37:01 GMT -5
Note the time frame I referenced. Yeah we've generally been bad for 10-12 years. Fordham's been bad going on 25 years in all sports. And they sponsor a lot too, not as many as we do, but they do have squash & water polo.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 14, 2020 15:43:49 GMT -5
I highly, highly doubt the Rams leave the A-10 for the PL. You think I don't like PL hoop? Check out their board sometime.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 15:45:30 GMT -5
Note the time frame I referenced. Yeah we've generally been bad for 10-12 years. Fordham's been bad going on 25 years in all sports. And they sponsor a lot too, not as many as we do, but they do have squash & water polo. I wasn't following HC athletics prior to the 2005-2006 academic year (when Men's Hockey won AHA & Women's Lax won the PL) but prior to that I don't think it was much different dating back to the formation of the Patriot League. Only difference was that we won a smattering of Men's Basketball titles under Willard and I believe a couple right when the league was formed. Women's Basketball was DOMINANT for the first 15 years of the PL, I think winning 12 or 13 championships in that span. We won the MAAC in hockey at least once. Other than that, Men's Lacrosse has never sniffed a title, in fact never even making the PL tournament until the last couple years when it expanded to include the Top 6. Baseball managed never to win a 6-team league even once for 16 years. Men's Soccer has won one title ever (early 2000's) with an additional championship game appearance in 2008 against Colgate -- played at the EXACT same time the football team lost to Colgate in the de facto PL title game. And I wouldn't be surprised if the remainder of the athletic program combined has come up with a combined goose egg throughout the history of the conference dating back to 1991.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 14, 2020 15:46:09 GMT -5
CHC, I was referring to 'recent' success which far exceeds what HC has accomplished - their 2017 men's soccer team won the A-10, then defeated St. Francis (NY), Duke, and Virginia in the NCAA's before losing to North Carolina in the 'final four' - their team this year went to the A10 final and lost to URI on penalty kicks. Better than HC in recent years, yes, but you said minor sports at Fordham have done well in the A-10. Two teams in the last 6 seasons ain't doing well in 25 years in the A-10. We can disagree if you like. I'll see if I can dig up the breakdwon I made on the old board later tonight. BTW - while I think it would be good to have them back, I believe the chances they come back in the next 5 years are pretty small.
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Post by purplepig on Jan 14, 2020 15:53:22 GMT -5
The A10 does not eject members for being lousy. And if they did, no doubt the Big East would jump at the chance to get the Rams.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 15:54:22 GMT -5
I highly, highly doubt the Rams leave the A-10 for the PL. You think I don't like PL hoop? Check out their board sometime. Remember this thread started with a rumor that they may be FORCED OUT of the A-10. One of my longtime softball teammates is an alum and die-hard Fordham sports fan. Season tix to M/W basketball and Football. When I discuss college sports with him and his college friends, believe me, there is no one foaming at the mouth at the idea of Fordham joining the Patriot League. Just like us, their fan base wants to figure out how to win at the level they are at which is the A-10. If you're in their shoes, the question begs "if St. Bonaventure and St. Joseph's can do it, why can't we?" However, there are some in the Fordham camp who would be willing to "slice the baby in half" if you will and move all sports to the CAA, which would be a downgrade in basketball but an upgrade in football. So there are some with that mentality. And because of the incorrect perception that it's a better basketball conference than the PL, there are those that if given the choice would prefer the MAAC over the Patriot League. I personally doubt the Fordham administration would agree, however.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 14, 2020 15:56:22 GMT -5
The A10 does not eject members for being lousy. And if they did, no doubt the Big East would jump at the chance to get the Rams. I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 14, 2020 16:10:44 GMT -5
Any upgrade conference wise is totally negated by their lack of facilities. Surely you jest.
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Post by Tom on Jan 14, 2020 16:32:52 GMT -5
If on the off chance the PL expanded, whether it's Fordham or not, it wouldn't necessarily need to expand to 12 schools. With 11, you can still play a double round-robin schedule of 20 conference games. Expansion to 12 schools is where it gets dicey. I don't think any conference plays more than a 20-game league schedule. If the PL went to 12 schools, I'd rather see them go to a divisional format. Two divisions of six teams each. You play each team in your division twice (10 games), then you play six crossover games with the other division, 3 at home, 3 on the road, alternating every year. 16 game conference schedule and still allows plenty of opportunities for non-conference scheduling. If there's a feeling that's either too few conference games or too many non-con games, you can play two opponents within your division three times to get to 18 games, which is where the league is now. But this is all purely speculation. You can create a round robin schedule with 11 teams. What you can't do is have everyone play on the weekend. With 11 teams every Saturday and Wednesday someone effectively has a bye. Hard to fill that spot with OOC in January or February. It is do-able, just annoying
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 14, 2020 16:38:29 GMT -5
Musings from the Fordham camp that they’d like to bring in Jared Grasso from Bryant as their next head coach. Grasso was an assistant at Fordham under Pecora and is known as a very good recruiter. Considering he worked under Cluess at Iona for several years, I’m not sure if hchoops would be a fan of his. Hoops is not a fan.
Grasso seems to be from the "let's throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" school of recruiting. According to VC, he has 36 open offers to 2020s and 74 offers to 2021s.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 14, 2020 16:45:48 GMT -5
I highly, highly doubt the Rams leave the A-10 for the PL. You think I don't like PL hoop? Check out their board sometime. Many of the posters on their main board were so bad that the entire board was shut down - first for an extended cooling-off period and then permanently. Someone else started a new board however. What you see if you go to what was their forum for many years: "This forum is permanently shut down. Posters have ruined this forum. You can thank Ram Spouse, HK Ram, Madram, 85, AOC, Vooter and others I am sure I am missing. 85's post after the loss to VCU was the straw that broke the camel's back. A truly deplorable set of threads and the epitome of what his forum should not be about. It got to a point where this forum required too much policing and was no longer fun to read, so it took away the reason it was created in the first place."
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