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Post by longsuffering on Jan 15, 2020 0:35:58 GMT -5
Dick Lutsk: "There will be no post game interview tonight - Coach's decision." (not an exact quote)
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 15, 2020 6:19:23 GMT -5
Assuming this is indeed true, we won't likely know the significance of the decision for quite a while. Maybe both parties are not handling this in the best fashion; really, who knows?
I'll tell you what is confusing me: the offensive philosophy. Maybe I'm just too ignorant in this area, but to me the philosophy itself of wanting to be aggressive and attacking the rim would in of itself lend to a "selfish" style of play. Again, not trying to pick sides, but when you hear all the talk of sharing and unselfishness, if I was blindfolded I might come to the conclusion that the coach speaking was someone with ties to a real controlled style of play, like, say a Princeton type offense. It's just confusing.
I totally agree with "the coach is the boss" mantra; I just hope this isn't a case of the coach going overboard, as I hope it's not a case of a rash decision by a young person. I also hope that by now (and he should) CBN realizes he just can't go out and pick up a couple of Jucos to reset.
Will be most interesting tonight.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 15, 2020 6:45:03 GMT -5
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Post by gerry on Jan 15, 2020 7:03:17 GMT -5
Drew liked a Tweet from someone who pointed out that MSU will be losing both starting guards, and Michigan is in need of scoring punch. Not sure if that means anything, but maybe he has his sights on the Big 10 just like Grandison? The whole bailing on your teammates mid season is just such a bad look.
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 15, 2020 7:06:05 GMT -5
From Verbal Commits Vitals Rankings News Status Transferred from Holy Cross Year 2019 (FR) Position PG Height 6-0 Weight 170 Hometown Ann Arbor, MI
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Post by hcpride on Jan 15, 2020 7:35:02 GMT -5
As is the case with so many college transfers nowadays, it is hard to determine "did he fall or was he pushed". In any case I don't think this costs us any wins this year (we weren't going to get many at all). I suppose he has a destination in mind.
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Post by dadominate on Jan 15, 2020 7:52:43 GMT -5
Assuming this is indeed true, we won't likely know the significance of the decision for quite a while. Maybe both parties are not handling this in the best fashion; really, who knows? I'll tell you what is confusing me: the offensive philosophy. Maybe I'm just too ignorant in this area, but to me the philosophy itself of wanting to be aggressive and attacking the rim would in of itself lend to a "selfish" style of play. Again, not trying to pick sides, but when you hear all the talk of sharing and unselfishness, if I was blindfolded I might come to the conclusion that the coach speaking was someone with ties to a real controlled style of play, like, say a Princeton type offense. It's just confusing. I totally agree with "the coach is the boss" mantra; I just hope this isn't a case of the coach going overboard, as I hope it's not a case of a rash decision by a young person. I also hope that by now (and he should) CBN realizes he just can't go out and pick up a couple of Jucos to reset. Will be most interesting tonight. suffice to say you aren't the only one perplexed by the seeming contradiction, nad.
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Post by bigfan on Jan 15, 2020 8:02:54 GMT -5
If we don't start winning some games, I believe that we will have additional transfers.
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Post by alum on Jan 15, 2020 8:07:24 GMT -5
Carmody signed 16 players to scholarships over five years. So far, 6 of those players did not finish their career at HC -- 3 thrown out, 3 transferred. The potential 4-year players who Carmody recruited: Zignorski, Le Sann, Copeland, Butler, Niego, Faw, Hargris, Verbeek, Wade, Pridgen. It would be difficult to manage a program worse than that. Carmody did seem to have a hard time keeping kids in school and out of problems and BN is off to a rough start with DL leaving. Of course, let's not pretend that this hasn't happened at other times. I looked at the letter winners list on the website and searched for people on the 1980-1985 rosters. It seems to me that the following players left permanently or for a year for academic, disciplinary, or basketball reasons (initials only--Most can remember or figure them out) EF--academic BK--basketball transfer to SJ DM--disciplinary and general unhappiness CF--academic CB--academic (I think) JC--academics (with an injury complicating it) LW--disciplinary CG--academic JR--disciplinary/unhappiness Obviously, there was a major embarrassing incident for which, it appeared to me at the time, there was plenty of blame to go around. GB is treated as pretty much a saint on this board which is fine by me, but he had his challenges, too. This isn't an easy job.
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Post by joe on Jan 15, 2020 8:14:26 GMT -5
The team‘s lack of depth allowed him to get minutes and become a star early. Now, rather than learning to get along and leading the program rebuild he will be using HC’s transient misfortune as a steppingstone to moving to a higher level of play. The me mentality starts in 2nd grade AAU ball. It’s no one’s fault but the adults who have allowed this paradigm shift. It’s true that if you don’t act in a self serving manner you may get left behind or miss opportunities that others will seize. I fail to see how any of this is fun for these kids. I feel for all parties. Quite simply this is just he way it is now.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 15, 2020 8:20:02 GMT -5
A better comparison might be George's inaugural year, when he went 9-17 and had a lot of problems with one veteran (Doyle) and one newcomer (Gaskins), both on the court and Gaskins off the court as well.
He overcame that, but it took a while and with neither of those two involved in the turnaround (Doyle was a senior, Gaskins was tossed with an offer of reinstatement; which his continuing misbehavior blew up).
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 15, 2020 8:22:51 GMT -5
If we don't start winning some games, I believe that we will have additional transfers. Unstable program that the wheels have come off “well it’s year 1” that’s the 4th time we heard that in the last 11 years. “Wait till he gets his recruits” um, they never get a full roster I mentioned earlier, a 25 loss team at the bottom of a very weak conference doesn’t lead to great recruiting. DL was a 3star recruit, we don’t get many of those and he is 18 yrs old. On the surface, looks like this was not handled well.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 15, 2020 8:22:51 GMT -5
The team‘s lack of depth allowed him to get minutes and become a star early. Now, rather than learning to get along and leading the program rebuild he will be using HC’s transient misfortune as a steppingstone to moving to a higher level of play. The me mentality starts in 2nd grade AAU ball. It’s no one’s fault but the adults who have allowed this paradigm shift. It’s true that if you don’t act in a self serving manner you may get left behind or miss opportunities that others will seize. I fail to see how any of this is fun for these kids. I feel for all parties. Quite simply this is just he way it is now. What a paradox that would be- if Grandison ended up being a significant contributor at Illinois and Lowder ended up playing for some other major. Would put Carmody's recruiting in somewhat of a different light.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 15, 2020 8:24:55 GMT -5
Carmody signed 16 players to scholarships over five years. So far, 6 of those players did not finish their career at HC -- 3 thrown out, 3 transferred. The potential 4-year players who Carmody recruited: Zignorski, Le Sann, Copeland, Butler, Niego, Faw, Hargris, Verbeek, Wade, Pridgen. It would be difficult to manage a program worse than that. Carmody did seem to have a hard time keeping kids in school and out of problems and BN is off to a rough start with DL leaving. Of course, let's not pretend that this hasn't happened at other times. I looked at the letter winners list on the website and searched for people on the 1980-1985 rosters. It seems to me that the following players left permanently or for a year for academic, disciplinary, or basketball reasons (initials only--Most can remember or figure them out) EF--academic BK--basketball transfer to SJ DM--disciplinary and general unhappiness CF--academic CB--academic (I think) JC--academics (with an injury complicating it) LW--disciplinary CG--academic Obviously, there was a major embarrassing incident for which, it appeared to me at the time, there was plenty of blame to go around. GB is treated as pretty much a saint on this board which is fine by me, but he had his challenges, too. This isn't an easy job. It has become more complicated each and every year. A number of reasons for it, but imo the skills for the role require coaches today to have great interpersonal skills, a staff that gives individual attention to every player, and of course the ability to identify, develop and coach talent. It has always had these requirements but the player management piece is becoming a more demanding role for a HC and some are better at it then others.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 15, 2020 8:27:09 GMT -5
While the grad transfer rule has added a nice option for many student athletes, I wonder if it has also contributed (in addition to Joe's thoughts above) to helping erase any stigma with the transfer process. Now, rather than a last resort, the process seems to be a strategy. Again, not saying it's what has happened here......but it's sure not easy to be a low-mid major these days.
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Post by possum on Jan 15, 2020 8:51:39 GMT -5
Yes it's really different for kids nowadays. If a kid shows promise in a particular sport he/she is encouraged at an early age to concentrate on that sport and inevitably join the AAU cycle. Once they reach high school if they're really good they're encouraged to leave the local school and go to a prep school. Then when they choose a college if they seem to be over performing their level once again they're encouraged to transfer to a higher level program. The transfer epidemic is making it virtually impossible to develop a stable roster that learns, develops and bonds into a cohesive unit.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 15, 2020 8:52:25 GMT -5
In principle, Dave's right. One can shine at a lower level and, in so many words, sell himself or herself (Katie Benzan) to a bigger program.
The only thing is, what Drew Lowder has accomplished and not accomplished in the semester he was at Holy Cross does, in my opinion, not make him very marketable. The recurrence of a serious injury. Being benched for disciplinary reasons. Making a ton of mistakes on the court (hell, if I could see them in the Navy game, despite him making the winning shot in the end; someone whose job it is to evaluate basketball talent can).
The bigs only have 13 scholarships too.
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Post by trimster on Jan 15, 2020 8:52:28 GMT -5
If we don't start winning some games, I believe that we will have additional transfers. Hello fire, I am gasoline. We really don’t know what has transpired and has anyone considered this might be the best thing for all parties moving forward.
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Post by DiMarz on Jan 15, 2020 9:09:19 GMT -5
I think it is just a sign of the times...There are so many transfers going on, at every level...Kids don't sign on for 4 years, they want immediate gratification, and if they don't get what they want, they move on.. It is the same thing in the work environment...So many young people move on, change jobs at a whim for what is perceived as a greener pasture....It has even reared it's head at the HS level..We read all the time of the kids changing schools...
HC has to move on!
Beat Army!
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 15, 2020 9:20:33 GMT -5
We really don’t know what has transpired and has anyone considered this might be the best thing for all parties moving forward. I certainly think it's the best thing for Holy Cross going forward, unless it's the result of Nelson being the second coming of Sean Kearney or Captain Bligh. It's the best thing for Lowder, too, if his experience at Holy Cross, on and off the court, has not been a happy one.
I agree with Tim that he may not be as marketable as some think. He wasn't after his initial hip injury in June 2018. During the summer on the AAU circuit that followed, he received only one offer - from D2 Ferris State. There was a reason for that, and more reasons now to give other programs pause. Hope things work out for him.
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Post by joe on Jan 15, 2020 9:26:52 GMT -5
Yes it's really different for kids nowadays. If a kid shows promise in a particular sport he/she is encouraged at an early age to concentrate on that sport and inevitably join the AAU cycle. Once they reach high school if they're really good they're encouraged to leave the local school and go to a prep school. Then when they choose a college if they seem to be over performing their level once again they're encouraged to transfer to a higher level program. The transfer epidemic is making it virtually impossible to develop a stable roster that learns, develops and bonds into a cohesive unit. Also making it hard for youth coaches to translate athletic lessons into life lessons without hypocrisy. If that aspect of youth sports dies, what’s the point, really?
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Post by classof83 on Jan 15, 2020 9:34:35 GMT -5
This issue is not unique to players - it applies to coaches as well. I would expect that if and when BN acheives some success he will be looking for greener pastures.
BN has to take some of the blame for this - and so do the assistant coaches. It is understandable why the head coach at times needs to be the bad guy, but the assistant coaches need to be there to smooth the water (so to speak) and keep the players engaged. It also doesn't help that there is no real senior leadership on this team. CLS is a nice guy, but the fact that he is not a major contributor on the team does not help his credibility in the locker room.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 15, 2020 9:37:43 GMT -5
How do you know that the assistants did not do all they could have ?
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Post by classof83 on Jan 15, 2020 9:39:39 GMT -5
How do you know that the assistants did not do all they could have ? I don't - I only see the outcome
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Post by hchoops on Jan 15, 2020 9:41:16 GMT -5
How do you know that the assistants did not do all they could have ? I don't - I only see the outcome Then why assess blame ?
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