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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2020 19:34:21 GMT -5
Yes. Likely Harvard or Yale. Or (gasp) Notre Dame.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 21, 2020 20:31:57 GMT -5
Boston College notes this regarding their enrolled 2024 kids: “The 2,408 members of the Class of 2024 were selected from 29,382 applicants, an acceptance rate of 26 percent that is in line with classes of recent years, including 2023 (27 percent) and 2022 (28 percent).” With these numbers, BC's yield is just over 30% (accepted 7,640, enrolled 2,408). Figuring early decision into the mix (that yield 100% by rule), their yield on regular applications is just 20 percent. Put another way, four of five BC admits in April go somewhere else. Is that good or bad? We accepted 2,289 for approx 400 slots in April (the other approx. 400 went ED). For a yield on regular applications of just 17%. That means over four of five HC admits in April go somewhere else. HC Applicants 7,087; Accepted 2,689; Enrolled 735 On another note, I’d guess Georgetown, Notre Dame, and University of Virginia as the top alternative destinations for accepted BC kids.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 22, 2020 0:16:00 GMT -5
or maybe Walpole?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 22, 2020 10:00:32 GMT -5
Repeating, the enrolled number in July for the class of 2024 was 850. The 850 was higher than they wanted, it had too many New Englanders than they wanted; the ALANA percentage had dropped, and the M:F ratio is askew. << If continued, this has Title IX repercussions for athletics, see GU, see BostonU. _________________________ It is folly to compare stats for the class of 2024, and maybe 2025 as well. 20 percent of Harvard's class of 2024 deferred admission. www.forbes.com/sites/brandonbusteed/2020/08/07/20-of-harvards-first-year-class-has-deferred/?sh=26d9645314a9
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Post by hcpride on Nov 22, 2020 10:17:35 GMT -5
/\ No doubt this was an unusual year for every college.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 22, 2020 11:02:02 GMT -5
My suspicion is that the July numbers, in part, reflect decisions by parents that Jack and Jill would be better off attending a school closer to home, and which had committed to testing students regularly. This could explain why there are more New Englanders than they wanted. I wouldn't be surprised in the majority of HC's ALANA students live outside New England, and their parents made a similar choice, better to attend a school closer to home. It would be interesting to know the M:F ratio of the 850 who were in the class of 2024 in July. I have seen reports from several HC sports teams that freshman athletes have chosen to defer their enrollment. __________________ The University of Michigan is doing the reverse of Holy Cross. UMich has closed the campus, sent students home to complete the fall semester remotely, and will restrict residency for the spring semester to very few students.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 22, 2020 12:35:58 GMT -5
My suspicion is that the July numbers, in part, reflect decisions by parents that Jack and Jill would be better off attending a school closer to home, and which had committed to testing students regularly. This could explain why there are more New Englanders than they wanted. I wouldn't be surprised in the majority of HC's ALANA students live outside New England, and their parents made a similar choice, better to attend a school closer to home. It would be interesting to know the M:F ratio of the 850 who were in the class of 2024 in July. I have seen reports from several HC sports teams that freshman athletes have chosen to defer their enrollment. __________________ The University of Michigan is doing the reverse of Holy Cross. UMich has closed the campus, sent students home to complete the fall semester remotely, and will restrict residency for the spring semester to very few students. Too many New Englanders? Which of these two approaches is the better long term strategy: A) Drop a couple of places in the USNWR rankings to achieve geographic balance by admitting less qualified applicants from far away. B) Move up a couple of spaces by accepting geographic imbalance to achieve the strongest academic class possible.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 22, 2020 17:58:00 GMT -5
My suspicion is that the July numbers, in part, reflect decisions by parents that Jack and Jill would be better off attending a school closer to home, and which had committed to testing students regularly. This could explain why there are more New Englanders than they wanted. I wouldn't be surprised in the majority of HC's ALANA students live outside New England, and their parents made a similar choice, better to attend a school closer to home. It would be interesting to know the M:F ratio of the 850 who were in the class of 2024 in July. I have seen reports from several HC sports teams that freshman athletes have chosen to defer their enrollment. __________________ The University of Michigan is doing the reverse of Holy Cross. UMich has closed the campus, sent students home to complete the fall semester remotely, and will restrict residency for the spring semester to very few students. Too many New Englanders? Which of these two approaches is the better long term strategy: A) Drop a couple of places in the USNWR rankings to achieve geographic balance by admitting less qualified applicants from far away. B) Move up a couple of spaces by accepting geographic imbalance to achieve the strongest academic class possible. The 'problem' is that the number of Catholic high school students continues to diminish. The reaccreditation committee, the past one,, not the current one, told HC that if it continued to rely on its traditional recruiting pool of Catholic high schools in the Northeast, it would result in less qualified students being admitted. That's a demographic fact of life. HC agreed with that assessment.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 22, 2020 18:47:19 GMT -5
So HC admits students on a geographic blind basis and all accepted students meet the academic standard set by Admissions, but the disappointment is because of the whole pool of qualified accepted students more from New England matriculated than TPTB desire?
If so, I don't share the disappointment because I think there is a multiplier effect when a Holy Cross student or alumnus impresses in the community and people have a tangible reference to attach Holy Cross to instead of a vague seminary or convent school 3,000 miles away. I have a family member who attained a teaching position at one of the best suburban Boston school systems decades ago in a year it was very difficult for recent graduates to get hired, because he was a BC graduate and the Principal was a BC graduate who told him that was why he was selecting him. That would be far less likely to happen in suburban Phoenix or Denver.
So there are pros and cons, but generally the best applicants should be accepted on a geographic blind basis and let the chips fall as they may regarding who decides to enroll, imo, and then try to build on the opportunities to advance HC wherever the students come from.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 22, 2020 18:54:49 GMT -5
You are using logic in looking at HC's institutional choices and behavior. I have no problem with that. I do hope that HC is able to spread its appeal into new areas, but (IMHO) that should not come at the price of alienating folks in the school's "backyard."
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 22, 2020 19:06:21 GMT -5
Mr. LeSane’s appointment as the Vice Provost for Enrollment Management should bring a fresh perspective to how HC conducts admissions recruiting.
The change will be welcomed if he can make significant modifications from the inertia we have seen at HC in the number of applications, the profile of high schools visited, and the demographic accepted and enrolled from all US States and territories.
There should also be a focus recruiting to all Jesuit Prep and High Schools worldwide in our recruiting efforts which seems to have been lacking for an extended period.
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Post by matunuck on Nov 22, 2020 19:55:09 GMT -5
I’m a big fan of geographic diversity at HC for a variety of reasons. Sorry but I’d like fewer students from MA.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 22, 2020 20:46:36 GMT -5
HC admits students geographically blind? That's the first time I've heard that. Is that a known, established fact or someone's theory? If true, I would be very surprised.
Some ancillary conversations I've had over the last 5-10 years or so with a few of TPTB was that they were looking specifically to try to get more students from the south and west where the population was growing and because of that they wanted to get the Holy Cross name ("brand" if you prefer) out there beyond the New England/Northeast home territory. A few thought athletics was a way to do that. Not a primary reason for more athletic success but a nice benefit. If you are looking to expand your geographic diversity, doing it blindly wouldn't make any sense at all.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 22, 2020 21:59:39 GMT -5
HC admits students geographically blind? That's the first time I've heard that. Is that a known, established fact or someone's theory? If true, I would be very surprised. Some ancillary conversations I've had over the last 5-10 years or so with a few of TPTB was that they were looking specifically to try to get more students from the south and west where the population was growing and because of that they wanted to get the Holy Cross name ("brand" if you prefer) out there beyond the New England/Northeast home territory. A few thought athletics was a way to do that. Not a primary reason for more athletic success but a nice benefit. If you are looking to expand your geographic diversity, doing it blindly wouldn't make any sense at all. I inserted a question mark when I asked (PP, but anyone else with knowledge) about geographic blind admissions. So I am responding to his posts mentioning HC being disappointed at too many enrollees from MA, but when I think about it HC is not Harvard so I don't think they have much room to be rejecting qualified applicants because they speak with a Boston accent. I get the sense the goal of increased geographic diversity is correctly strived for with recruiting efforts to attract qualified applicants from farther away not by accepting less qualified applicants with distant zip codes over more qualified students who know which month Patriots Day is celebrated in. BTW, Patriots Day is observed only in MA and Maine, which until the Missouri Compromise of 1820 was a part of Massachusetts. It's the third Monday in April, the day the Boston Marathon is run.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 23, 2020 6:46:39 GMT -5
When you fill half your class with ED (and one imagines the HC 80% ED selection for thi$ very important group is geographically blind) you’re left with just 400 slots. [I’m guessing there are some athletes in the group from the South and West but overall I’d guess the large ED group skews heavily Northeast/New England.]
I’m certain we purposely and carefully accepted 2200 RD academically qualified kids last year to yield the 400 remaining slots. Even so, it is quite a challenge to ultimately land the mix of ‘diverse’ ( race, gender, geo, etc.) students we’d ideally desire. And covid was quite a wild card.
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Post by hc6774 on Nov 23, 2020 7:30:11 GMT -5
When you fill half your class with ED (and one imagines the HC 80% ED selection for thi$ very important group is geographically blind) you’re left with just 400 slots. [I’m guessing there are some athletes in the group from the South and West but overall I’d guess the large ED group skews heavily Northeast/New England.] I’m certain we purposely and carefully accepted 2200 RD academically qualified kids last year to yield the 400 remaining slots. Even so, it is quite a challenge to ultimately land the mix of ‘diverse’ ( race, gender, geo, etc.) students we’d ideally desire. And covid was quite a wild card. geo diversity is an 'acceptance priority'; for '24 class Philly & Chicago were 'target' [recruited?] areas, for '23 TX & CA were targets
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Post by alum on Nov 23, 2020 8:16:58 GMT -5
When you fill half your class with ED (and one imagines the HC 80% ED selection for thi$ very important group is geographically blind) you’re left with just 400 slots. [I’m guessing there are some athletes in the group from the South and West but overall I’d guess the large ED group skews heavily Northeast/New England.] I’m certain we purposely and carefully accepted 2200 RD academically qualified kids last year to yield the 400 remaining slots. Even so, it is quite a challenge to ultimately land the mix of ‘diverse’ ( race, gender, geo, etc.) students we’d ideally desire. And covid was quite a wild card. geo diversity is an 'acceptance priory'; for '24 class Philly & Chicago were 'target' [recruited?] areas, for '23 TX & CA were targets I would rather they spent an additional $200,000 and hired two more admissions counselors ($50,000 each plus benefits and travel expenses) and targeted all of these areas every year.
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Post by hc6774 on Nov 23, 2020 8:30:12 GMT -5
geo diversity is an 'acceptance priory'; for '24 class Philly & Chicago were 'target' [recruited?] areas, for '23 TX & CA were targets I would rather they spent an additional $200,000 and hired two more admissions counselors ($50,000 each plus benefits and travel expenses) and targeted all of these areas every year. I think we are leveraging the Athletic Dpt budget for geo diversity; i.e. generating applications outside NE
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Post by alum on Nov 23, 2020 8:31:36 GMT -5
I would rather they spent an additional $200,000 and hired two more admissions counselors ($50,000 each plus benefits and travel expenses) and targeted all of these areas every year. I think we are leveraging the Athletic Dpt budget for geo diversity; i.e. generating applications outside NE Makes sense. I didn't read the whole thread. I would still like them to be more aggressive in admissions generally and looking at the admissions staff, I think that it has been enlarged.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 23, 2020 8:33:34 GMT -5
First, I said that the disappointment was the higher number of enrollees from New England, not singularly Massachusetts.
My supposition, and it is just that, was that accepted students from New England who were also accepted (illustratively using private schools only) at Villanova, Elon, Richmond, Lafayette, Santa Clara, W&M, Johns Hopkins, GW, one of the Claremonts, etc. decided to stay closer to home because of COVID. This, in part, was also driven by HC's commitment to regularly test every student who was on-campus twice a week for the fall semester (ultimately achieved only by greatly reducing the number of students with access to campus).
For the class entering in the fall of 2019, 62 percent of the freshmen (who were residents of the United States) came from states outside of Massachusetts. For the class that entered in the fall of 2014, that percentage was 63 percent.
The peril in relying on a diminishing recruiting pool (Catholic high schools in the Northeast) is that HC will wind up like St. Joe's.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 23, 2020 9:06:46 GMT -5
First, I said that the disappointment was the higher number of enrollees from New England, not singularly Massachusetts. My supposition, and it is just that, was that accepted students from New England who were also accepted (illustratively using private schools only) at Villanova, Elon, Richmond, Lafayette, Santa Clara, W&M, Johns Hopkins, GW, one of the Claremonts, etc. decided to stay closer to home because of COVID. This, in part, was also driven by HC's commitment to regularly test every student who was on-campus twice a week for the fall semester (ultimately achieved only by greatly reducing the number of students with access to campus). For the class entering in the fall of 2019, 62 percent of the freshmen (who were residents of the United States) came from states outside of Massachusetts. For the class that entered in the fall of 2014, that percentage was 63 percent. The peril in relying on a diminishing recruiting pool (Catholic high schools in the Northeast) is that HC will wind up like St. Joe's. We may see that sort of Covid-derived pattern again with the group that is currently applying - and we'll see if that shifts our applications (not just enrollees) even more towards New England this cycle. I also wonder if our Campus closure smacks down our ED I applicant numbers.
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Post by matunuck on Nov 23, 2020 10:31:48 GMT -5
They are plenty of "qualified" students outside MA and NE and, no, you don't need to be Harvard to appeal to them. HC must put more resources into its regional outreach, particularly targeting high school guidance counselors. We have an excellent academic story to tell. A broader student body adds to more diverse intellectual environment with students coming from areas with different regional economies where a significant number of jobs may be tied to industries not prevalent in MA/NE or from a distinct cultural/political environment, etc. I'm a big fan of students getting exposed to varying points of view and perspectives that may not occur to the extent one would like if too many students come from one rather small geographic footprint. That said, do hope the rumored big financial aid donation is, indeed, big.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 23, 2020 11:31:14 GMT -5
Diversity of all kinds -- Awesome.
Having a strong regional connection and a student body well-represented by the local the immediate local area -- extremely important, especially within Greater Worcester.
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Post by alum on Dec 11, 2020 10:22:46 GMT -5
I would be interested in learning how applications at HC and other schools are going for the class to enter in 2021. See this article from the Connecticut Mirror indicating that the percentage of students who have filled out a FAFSA has fallen precipitously. ctmirror.org/2020/12/11/college-financial-aid-applications-down-16-this-school-year/Presumably, if they are slow to fill out the FAFSA, kids will be slow to apply to colleges as well. Hopefully this is just a blip and will pick up as the future becomes clearer.
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Post by hc6774 on Dec 11, 2020 11:22:23 GMT -5
I would be interested in learning how applications at HC and other schools are going for the class to enter in 2021. See this article from the Connecticut Mirror indicating that the percentage of students who have filled out a FAFSA has fallen precipitously. ctmirror.org/2020/12/11/college-financial-aid-applications-down-16-this-school-year/Presumably, if they are slow to fill out the FAFSA, kids will be slow to apply to colleges as well. Hopefully this is just a blip and will pick up as the future becomes clearer. might one of the factors in the FAFSA process be that it would be based on the 2019 tax return?
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