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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 27, 2016 15:25:42 GMT -5
Can't help but get a little chuckle at this whole thing. When the city of Worcester desperately wanted Holy Cross to join the Big East the mantra was the Holy Cross had to do what was good for Holy Cross. Now that Holy Cross needs the city of Worcester the alums are shaking their fists demanding something be done. Believe me, I would like nothing more than to see Hockey East in this city. Perhaps investing on some real dollars in downtown Worcester on a scale similar to Cliff Rucker may help. Holy Cross and its alumni have pumped more money into Worcester than Cliff Rucker ever will. Period. End. Cheers. Don't get insulted. You have to admit there is a perception that Holy Cross walls itself off from the city. I don't think any politician will be hurt if they don't advocate for Holy Cross on this issue. Sorry.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 27, 2016 15:39:05 GMT -5
Holy Cross and its alumni have pumped more money into Worcester than Cliff Rucker ever will. Period. End. Cheers. Don't get insulted. You have to admit there is a perception that Holy Cross walls itself off from the city. I don't think any politician will be hurt if they don't advocate for Holy Cross on this issue. Sorry. On the several occasions (on the old board) when Worcester city officials discussed having colleges and universities located in Worcester make payments to the city in lieu of taxes, the reaction of the board to such proposals was, shall I say, vituperative.
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Post by HC1843 on Sept 27, 2016 16:02:39 GMT -5
Holy Cross and its alumni have pumped more money into Worcester than Cliff Rucker ever will. Period. End. Cheers. Don't get insulted. You have to admit there is a perception that Holy Cross walls itself off from the city. I don't think any politician will be hurt if they don't advocate for Holy Cross on this issue. Sorry. Not insulted at all. It simply is a fact that Worcester's economy would collapse without the area colleges. Sure, all relationships have issues, but the city knows what institutions butter it's bread. Mr. Rucker's recent infusion of cash, even if in the millions, is paltry compared to HC. Cheers.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 27, 2016 16:03:37 GMT -5
Some positive news:
Mike McMahon Mike McMahon‏ @mikemcmahonchn
Told that while HE is "holding off" on Holy Cross' men's team, it's possible the league takes the women's program soon.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 27, 2016 16:03:38 GMT -5
I'm sure HC has more ways to force the City to get behind this. Easy way is for HC to tell the city & the DCU that they will no longer host NCAA's of ANY sort. That means lost $ to the DCU and revenue to city businesses. Will HC do this? It wouldn't surprise me, under the guise of "hosting several NCAA's in hockey and two in hoops hasn't helped HC achieve our goals". That's an easy way of telling Worc and the DCU to screw, without actually saying so.
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Post by HC1843 on Sept 27, 2016 16:05:31 GMT -5
Don't get insulted. You have to admit there is a perception that Holy Cross walls itself off from the city. I don't think any politician will be hurt if they don't advocate for Holy Cross on this issue. Sorry. On the several occasions (on the old board) when Worcester city officials discussed having colleges and universities located in Worcester make payments to the city in lieu of taxes, the reaction of the board to such proposals was, shall I say, vituperative. For comparison sake, how much goes Georgetown pay DC in taxes and/or to pilot'esque programs. My guess is 0. Why wouldn't HC tell the city to take hike on that issue? The city loses that one if pressed, and knows our greater value to the local economy. Cheers.
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Post by realism on Sept 27, 2016 16:12:06 GMT -5
This absolutely blows. I guarantee that Centrum management regrets taking it up the wazzu from this two-bit ECHL operation. Hope they have a long-term guarantee of lease fees from the team, as I'm taking the under on 92's odds, because this team will not draw more that a thousand a nite once everyone has brought a foam finger and t-shirt. Place will be empty all winter again real soon. It was so obvious that ACTP wanted to play bigshot like he really had the inside scoop. So small time!
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Post by HC92 on Sept 27, 2016 16:18:46 GMT -5
The argument about who owes who what in this context is a waste of time. This is business. It would seem to be in the City's best interest to have HC as a member of HE playing downtown. Not because they owe it to HC but because it would be good economically for the city. If they're getting pushed around by the ECHL owner who very likely won't be around in a few years, that's on them. If Rucker doesn't get the requisite number of season tickets and corporate sponsorships in the allotted time, the Railers may never play a game in Worcester. Even if they make it, there should be almost 30 open DCU dates on Fridays and Saturdays during hockey season. Let's all put on our big boy pants and make it happen.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 27, 2016 16:22:23 GMT -5
This absolutely blows. I guarantee that Centrum management regrets taking it up the wazzu from this two-bit ECHL operation. Hope they have a long-term guarantee of lease fees from the team, as I'm taking the under on 92's odds, because this team will not draw more that a thousand a nite once everyone has brought a foam finger and t-shirt. Place will be empty all winter again real soon. It was so obvious that ACTP wanted to play bigshot like he really had the inside scoop. So small time! Really? How so? I reported that talks with HE were much further along than implied in the T&G article, which turns out they obviously were and are.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 27, 2016 16:23:13 GMT -5
The argument about who owes who what in this context is a waste of time. This is business. It would seem to be in the City's best interest to have HC as a member of HE playing downtown. Not because they owe it to HC but because it would be good economically for the city. If they're getting pushed around by the ECHL owner who very likely won't be around in a few years, that's on them. If Rucker doesn't get the requisite number of season tickets and corporate sponsorships in the allotted time, the Railers may never play a game in Worcester. Even if they make it, there should be almost 30 open DCU dates on Fridays and Saturdays during hockey season. Let's all put on our big boy pants and make it happen. Well said, thank you.
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Post by realism on Sept 27, 2016 16:29:45 GMT -5
At the very least, the enormous number of moving parts in the way of making this a reality have been exposed. And that's not even counting what HC has to be prepared to eat in marketing and rent for each game in the initial years. Get real.
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Post by purple1 on Sept 27, 2016 16:30:48 GMT -5
Let us not forget that Holy Cross is certainly one of the city's top 5 employers, dwarfing what the Railer CEO will do. This is a great opportunity for Hockey East to get established for years in Worcester. The caliber of play will also be superior with notoriety for Worcester from publications or media which the ECHL only wishes they could get. This is like the Big 10 Conference coming to the region for football and the city turning its back......ECHL no professional affiliation - Holy Cross since 1843 a major standard for the city and looking to increase its presence in a number of sports. There is no comparison in my opinion. Wake up Worcester !!!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 27, 2016 16:59:41 GMT -5
On the several occasions (on the old board) when Worcester city officials discussed having colleges and universities located in Worcester make payments to the city in lieu of taxes, the reaction of the board to such proposals was, shall I say, vituperative. For comparison sake, how much goes Georgetown pay DC in taxes and/or to pilot'esque programs. My guess is 0. Why wouldn't HC tell the city to take hike on that issue? The city loses that one if pressed, and knows our greater value to the local economy. Cheers. Georgetown and GWU and AU don't make any payments in lieu of taxes. However in Massachusetts, Payments in lieu of taxes to the city of Boston, by academic institution. www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/fy16_pilot_results_for_web.pdfBoston U paid the most, followed by Harvard and Northeastern. MIT paid $45 million in property taxes to the city of Cambridge, and also made a $2 million payment in lieu of taxes. Harvard makes about an annual $2.5 million payment in lieu of taxes to Cambridge, and pays nearly $5.5 million in property taxes to Cambridge.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 27, 2016 17:01:56 GMT -5
Because I was curious, I looked up the impact on the home attendance of the Hartford Wolf Pack when UConn started sharing a building with them in 2014-15:
2013-14: 4,071 2014-15: 4,468 2015-16: 4,440
Not sure if anything else was going on that impacted this, but UConn playing in the same arena certainly didn't hurt the Wolf Pack.
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Post by matunuck on Sept 27, 2016 17:42:55 GMT -5
The argument about who owes who what in this context is a waste of time. This is business. It would seem to be in the City's best interest to have HC as a member of HE playing downtown. Not because they owe it to HC but because it would be good economically for the city. If they're getting pushed around by the ECHL owner who very likely won't be around in a few years, that's on them. If Rucker doesn't get the requisite number of season tickets and corporate sponsorships in the allotted time, the Railers may never play a game in Worcester. Even if they make it, there should be almost 30 open DCU dates on Fridays and Saturdays during hockey season. Let's all put on our big boy pants and make it happen. Please stop. You're making way too much sense. If the city doesn't want HE then fine. They can figure out how to fill some seats in the DCU after the minor league team tanks. And give me a break on HC giving millions more to Worcester politicians. Typical.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 27, 2016 18:52:46 GMT -5
I'm sure the city leaders are doing all they can to help Holy Cross and the Railers. Let's stop jumping to conclusions and stop the tough guy, screw Worcester talk.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 27, 2016 19:07:36 GMT -5
Based on those tweets above, the city leaders are doing all they can to help the Railers
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Post by HC1843 on Sept 27, 2016 19:28:35 GMT -5
What is the incentive in even owning one of these minor league teams? High probability of failure after a few years and not much upside. What a waste Loaded guy with a hobby and money to burn. Cheers.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 27, 2016 19:43:50 GMT -5
Based on those tweets above, the city leaders are doing all they can to help the Railers Worcester is a joke. Politicians are incompetent hacks. The Railers are a shiny new bauble they are tripping over to play with but will be gone in 3 years. PILOT is definitely part of this, which is so sad and pathetic as HC does more for Woo than any other institution.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 27, 2016 20:01:35 GMT -5
Based on those tweets above, the city leaders are doing all they can to help the Railers Worcester is a joke. Politicians are incompetent hacks. The Railers are a shiny new bauble they are tripping over to play with but will be gone in 3 years. PILOT is definitely part of this, which is so sad and pathetic as HC does more for Woo than any other institution. Holy Cross does more than any other institution? The entire population of the city of Worcester will disagree with that statement.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 27, 2016 20:15:05 GMT -5
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 27, 2016 20:16:20 GMT -5
Based on those tweets above, the city leaders are doing all they can to help the Railers hoops - please explain how you came to this conclusion, as I do not see any damming indictment on Worc politicians in the tweets by Mike McMahon.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 27, 2016 20:22:30 GMT -5
Based on those tweets above, the city leaders are doing all they can to help the Railers hoops - please explain how you came to this conclusion, as I do not see any damming indictment on Worc politicians in the tweets by Mike McMahon. "Concerns over the availability of the DCU" to me that is on city leaders "w a pro team HC would have been forced to play weeknight games" that seems like nonsense unless there are unknown bookings actp whom do you hold responsible ?
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 27, 2016 20:26:18 GMT -5
hoops - please explain how you came to this conclusion, as I do not see any damming indictment on Worc politicians in the tweets by Mike McMahon. "Concerns over the availability of the DCU" to me that is on city leaders I think Rucker is positioning for better terms from the DCU
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Post by Tom on Sept 27, 2016 21:37:57 GMT -5
Worcester is a joke. Politicians are incompetent hacks. The Railers are a shiny new bauble they are tripping over to play with but will be gone in 3 years. PILOT is definitely part of this, which is so sad and pathetic as HC does more for Woo than any other institution. Holy Cross does more than any other institution? The entire population of the city of Worcester will disagree with that statement.
True enough - and perception is often more important than reality. Holy Cross does a very poor job of blowing its own horn on this one. Just the price they choose to pay for being traditionalists and not looking for a pat on the back every time they do something good
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