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Post by Tom on Jul 26, 2021 8:15:21 GMT -5
bangordailynews.com/2021/07/23/news/bangor/penobscot-baseball-players-fans-hope-his-legacy-lives-on-with-cleveland-teams-name-change/Ed Rice, a baseball historian who wrote a book about Sockalexis, “Baseball’s First Indian: The Story of Penobscot Legend Louis Sockalexis,” met the news with some trepidation. “It becomes even more important now to make sure Louis’ legacy is remembered. I am afraid now that the Cleveland team will forget the history and let it fade into the background. I think it’s incredibly important now that Maine and Holy Cross do more to recognize that we had an extraordinary ball player who never got the respect he deserved,” Rice said.... Ed Rice's book is a good read. It would be even if it weren't so complimentary of Holy Cross Among other things it chronicles how Sockalexis' pro years were similar to what Jackie Robinson went through with the Dodgers. Part of what made Robinson so great was that he had what it took to endure all of that. Sadly Sockalexis did not and things ended tragically. There's a blue 42 on the wall in Fenway deservedly so. Robinson will always be remembered by all baseball fans. With this announcement, Sockalexis will most likely go from barely remembered to basically not remembered at all. I saw Ed Rice speak at Holy Cross. It was clear that through his research that Sockalexis became a personal hero to Rice. Not much of a surprise that Rice met the news with some trepidation.
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Post by Ignutz on Jul 26, 2021 10:56:40 GMT -5
The St. Joe’s Hawk selection has become an annual application and interview process in which a current student is selected to represent the school. Since 1992, the student awarded the role of mascot has been recipient of an endowed scholarship and is considered a full member of the basketball team. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hawk_(Saint_Joseph%27s_University_mascot)I don’t have to lobby the NCAA. For many institutions, mascots will disappear and go the way of the DoDo. Scan the Athletic Websites regarding branding and the use of the 20th Century moniker today. When was the last time you saw a Harvard, Dartmouth, Penn, or Colgate cartoon character depiction of the institution? Fading fast to black....... as one hears the Director in a video before there is silence and the production is wrapped. My understanding is that one of the criteria to be the St. Joe's hawk is that during basketball (and other?) games, the hawk's wings must be constantly flapping - not necessarily a lot, but constantly in motion. Should make for a potentially strong swim team member!
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 26, 2021 11:19:48 GMT -5
The Hawk, The Tree and The Leprechaun are three celebrity mascots that will probably endure and be seen on the sidelines in the future. Hard to think of other mascots that have the same national image.
I hope that St. Joe’s will be back on the schedule, home and home as a Jesuit spotlight game. While in costume, the hawks wings must flap, not just doing the game, but always. Looking across the Philly Big Five, no other mascot has the visage as the Hawk.
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Post by beaven302 on Jul 26, 2021 12:10:39 GMT -5
Playing Devil’s Advocate here, it was presumably intended as an honor of Lou Sockalexis that the named the team Indians, not a pejorative. A non-pejorative origin also applied to the St. John's "Redmen." The name reportedly originated with the the early football team, which had all-red uniforms. However, it didn't take long for the name to be associated with Native Americans. I can recall my father, who attended St. John's in the 1930s, saying that the students would bring a cigar store wooden Indian to basketball games.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 26, 2021 13:05:03 GMT -5
Mascots/imagery is for identity, association, pride, and maybe most importantly, MONEY. Sell a T-shirt, hat, wristband, glove, bat, jacket, golf bag, beer coozy, with the Yankee logo on it. Get rid of that logo and think of all the money that's lost.
Yes, Cleveland could have kept up with the (rather lame, in my opinion) "C" but I would be willing to bet they sold far more Chief Wahoo shirts and hats than they did "CLEVELAND," which looks like somebody bought at a souvenir kiosk after a bus tour.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 26, 2021 14:49:26 GMT -5
Good point. I think the Braves already nixed that didn't they? Tomahawk Chop probably needs to go but the names are fine. Could easily tie them to firefighting as opposed to Native American war legacy. Atlanta can do the same gymnastics with the meaning of "Braves" that HC did with "Crusaders". We're both fighting for Truth, Justice and the American way. And Coach Nelson's recruits can leap tall buildings in a single bound.😊
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 26, 2021 15:32:16 GMT -5
The Hawk, The Tree and The Leprechaun are three celebrity mascots that will probably endure and be seen on the sidelines in the future. Hard to think of other mascots that have the same national image. The Hawk has no national awareness to fans. Fans hear Hawks and think Atlanta basketball or Chicago hockey.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 26, 2021 17:46:36 GMT -5
Babylon Bee had a nice piece on the 800% increase in unemployment for team mascots
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 26, 2021 21:12:13 GMT -5
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 27, 2021 10:19:39 GMT -5
The Hawk, The Tree and The Leprechaun are three celebrity mascots that will probably endure and be seen on the sidelines in the future. Hard to think of other mascots that have the same national image. The Hawk has no national awareness to fans. Fans hear Hawks and think Atlanta basketball or Chicago hockey. I can't speak for the nation, but even growing up as a very casual college sports fan in NY, I was aware of St. Joe's hawk, flapping its wings without pause, and kid in the costume getting a full ride scholarship.
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Post by alum on Jul 27, 2021 11:00:40 GMT -5
Babylon Bee had a nice piece on the 800% increase in unemployment for team mascots This no mascot thing is catching on. New Jersey Mutual commercials are all over the place lately.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 27, 2021 11:45:04 GMT -5
Catching on? I am not sure. Those are an attempt to fight back against the Geico gecco...a very popular (if annoying) mascot.
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Post by Tom on Jul 27, 2021 12:14:12 GMT -5
I think there's a big difference between a mascot used in advertising and a sports team/school. I have seen a small number of Geico tee shirts with a gecco.. I have seen way more Holy Cross Crusaders tee shirts.
I don't know if Geico employees think of themselves as geccos. If any, I'm guessing the number is small. Lots of people are proud to identify themselves as Crusaders
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Post by hchoops on Jul 28, 2021 8:20:13 GMT -5
From one of the most respected baseball writers In The Athletic Much about Sockalexis
CLEVELAND, OHIO - By Joe Posnanski Jul 27, 2021 229 I wanted to wait a bit to gauge the fallout after the Cleveland baseball team announced that, beginning in 2022, they will be known as the “Guardians.” Over the years, I’ve probably written more about this than most, and, having grown up in Cleveland as a huge baseball fan, I’m probably more emotionally attached to this than most. I grew up with the Cleveland Indians. I wanted to see how people responded before getting down some of my thoughts. And it seems to me the response has generally forked into two branches. The first branch is those who are offended and angry that the team changed its name. The second branch is those who have opinions about the new name and how it will be presented. Let’s take the first part first. In 1915, the Cleveland baseball team — after years of living in the nickname wilderness — was renamed the Indians. There have been countless arguments about the origin of that nickname, and after having studied this for more than a decade and making a lot of mistakes and misjudgments, I think I can now say two things with relative certainty. 1. The inspiration for the nickname was a breathtaking and troubled Native American baseball player named Louis Sockalexis. 2. That first thing almost certainly doesn’t mean what you think it means. Here’s what I mean: In 1897, when Sockalexis joined the Cleveland Spiders, he was a curiosity and a phenom. He was not necessarily the first Native American to play in the Major Leagues — the research on that continues to evolve — but he was certainly, as I have written, “the first acknowledged Native American to play in the big leagues … the first to be known as an Indian, the first to endure being called a ‘noble savage,’ and ‘redskin’ and ‘red man’ and ‘educated Indian’ in the papers.” Everywhere he went, people in the crowd would whoop and dance as they imagined Native Americans might. Sports nicknames in those days were variable things, and for a while, people began referring to the Spiders as the Indians. Was this “in honor” of Sockalexis? I’ll leave that to your judgment. The Sockalexis mania subsided as alcoholism wrecked him as a ballplayer. Not long after that, the Spiders were contracted after their owner moved all of their best players to St. Louis. A new American League franchise was originally known as the Cleveland Blues, then the Cleveland Bronchos and finally the Cleveland Naps after their star player Nap Lajoie. Then in 1915, with Lajoie gone, the team needed a new name. Numerous things were in the air. The Boston Braves had just electrified the baseball nation by going from perennial doormat to World Series champs. Cowboys and Indians was one of the most popular childhood games going. And Sockalexis had recently died (at age 42) rekindling some of the nostalgia for his first year. Sportswriters in Cleveland got together and decided to formally name the team the Indians, as people had called them in 1897. So Sockalexis was definitely a part of the name choice. But was this done as a tribute to Sockalexis or Native American people in general? Of course not, and as the years went along Sockalexis was all but forgotten while there were countless dehumanizing headlines, chants, nicknames and caricatures. People will say that the talk about the Indians “scalping” other teams or the pidgin words surrounding the team or the presentation of a hook-nosed red-faced Chief Wahoo was done without malice, and perhaps this is mostly so. But they happened just the same. And none of it was meant to honor Louis Sockalexis. So, no, I don’t have much use for people angry about the name change invoking Sockalexis, as if the Indians name was some sort of noble effort at bringing people together. It just isn’t so. The reason most people are angry about the name change, I suspect, is because they grew up with it. I get that. I grew up with it. There is something a little bit heartbreaking about losing something from your childhood. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with expressing that … as long as you acknowledge that maybe there is something more heartbreaking about seeing your culture, your heritage and your people reduced to a sports nickname with a grinning red-faced mascot wearing a feather. Think of it this way: If Cleveland was an expansion team trying to come up with a new name, what are the chances that anyone — even the people most attached to the old name — would think it was cool to call them the Indians? All of which takes us to the second part, the new nickname, the Guardians. As you undoubtedly know by now, the name connects with the art-deco “Guardians of Traffic” statues on the glorious Hope Memorial Bridge that crosses over the Cuyahoga River. The “Hope” in the name is for Bob Hope’s father, Harry, who helped build the Guardians statues. Or it is named for Bob Hope himself, one of Cleveland’s most famous exports. Or it is named for the whole Hope family. Even the name for the Hope Memorial Bridge has a convoluted past. Do I love the name Guardians? No. But here’s what I’ve been thinking about: I’m not supposed to love it. Not yet. I know there was a passionate group of people who wanted the team to be called the Spiders or Spyders, and I might have thought that was better … especially because the Spiders (or Spyders) logos I’ve seen are better than the early Guardians stuff. But when it comes to sports names, the proof comes after years and years. The Boston Red Sox is a quantifiably terrible name except it’s awesome because of what it represents. The Los Angeles Dodgers makes no sense whatsoever except it’s now poetry. The Cincinnati Reds are literally named after a color, and not an especially unusual color, and it works because we’ve been calling them that since the days of Joe McCarthy. There might be some complaining now, but if the Guardians put a couple of cool teams on the field and win some games, it will sound right as rain
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Post by timholycross on Jul 31, 2021 20:36:59 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2021 20:50:53 GMT -5
Just in time for the former players to get their hips and knees replaced.
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