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Post by hcpride on Mar 27, 2022 10:24:11 GMT -5
Improving success in athletics is not a requirement for academic improvement. Look at the athletics of other superior National Lib Arts colleges - Colby, Bowdoin,, Williams, Wesleyan, Colgate etc. None have powerhouse athletics programs. We can add Amherst, Middlebur Swarthmore, Trinity Carlton, Reed And on and on. However, HC is not on a level with these schools known more for their academics than athletics. So maybe HC should follow the traditional Catholic school paradigm of athletics. Snap on your jock strap and study the Catechism. Would this approach improve the application numbers or improve the academic quality of the school? This is a head in the sand and expired view of the world. It’s like waiting for the newspaper to be delivered to obtain news. We have a high school junior now looking at schools. He will qualify for ED admission at HC and is looking for a school that is academically challenging but yet fun, with D1 sports, with course offerings similar to those that both his older siblings Majored at the College (classes of 19 and 23). He does not wear a jock strap and neither do his classmates at his all boys catholic high school that send 10+ kids to ND, BC and yes Nova each year. He and the other non-athletes must be the target students for the College. These kids will not even consider the Williams, Colby, Amherst etcs of the world. It is not who they are and they reject the current culture at those institutions. They read their news on their IPhones and tablets….. But for his family members, he would not even visit the campus. It is long past time to position the College to reach qualified students like him/them similar to the generations of students that proceeded them AND who enrolled on the Hill. Gotta agree that the kids applying to the secular NESCACS are not high payoff targets for the HC ✝️ Admissions staff. Then there are those who wishfully think our special niche/monopoly is the kids looking Catholic and looking liberal arts. Nope, schools like BC, Nova, Fordham, and ND offer that…AND more stuff the quality high schoolers want.
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Post by crusader99 on Mar 27, 2022 10:28:32 GMT -5
If we are not attracting qualified students with the current offerings, isn’t the marketplace responding that different offerings are required.
here is an example. My daughter, current class of 23, wanted to study engineering. The only offering at the College required a 5th year at Columbia. She shifted majors to the architecture program and is having a wonderful experience. She is taught and mentored by terrific, passionate and engaged professors, who have taken an interest in her career options as well. All positives and why we encouraged her to enroll at the College (and she does not wear a joke strap — which may not be obvious to all). The downside is that she will need to continue onto graduate school to sit for a licensing exam…. A 5th year at the College would get her there, but that is not a current option.
Adjustments to the current offerings that compliment those now taught, are simple productive suggestions.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 27, 2022 10:40:33 GMT -5
I believe that what njsader is saying (and it seems you agree mm) is that despite the fact that Holy Cross is a liberal arts college, the applicant that we need to focus on getting to attend here isn't also applying to the likes of Amherst, Williams, Skidmore, Bates and Macalester for the most part. It's the applicant that is looking at BC, Fordham, Syracuse, Villanova, Providence, Loyola MD, Northeastern, BU. And possibly also applying to ND, Cornell, Dartmouth and Georgetown as "reach schools" while also maybe receiving generous aid packages from "safety schools" like Fairfield and Le Moyne.
I think Holy Cross needs to try and offer some of what kids are looking for that they get at slightly bigger private colleges and universities. Is it better internship programs and an actually useful Career Services dept.? More diverse course offerings and majors? Dining and housing options that are more appealing than those found at a typical New England prep school? A more integrated "college town" outside the campus gates?
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Post by mm67 on Mar 27, 2022 12:16:29 GMT -5
nj I realize HC folks have sharp elbows going back to HC-BC in 1896 and probably before. But, in the spirit of HC fellowship, can't we agree to disagree? I respect your opinion. You are an HC alum from the great Garden State. I respect you. You may be correct. I may be wrong.Aren't we tied together by our love for HC. I'm old from a different generation and hopefully I continue to evolve & grow. But we are fellow alums, no? Do you disagree? Pray for the people of Ukraine. Peace.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 27, 2022 12:32:41 GMT -5
mm --- what's the sharp elbows reference? I'm not seeing anything in nj's post that strikes me as combative in any way. Just personal observations of a parent involved in the college application process in 2022.
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Post by mm67 on Mar 27, 2022 13:19:27 GMT -5
NY '10 Fellow NY'er, "Head in the sand ... expired view of the world... like waiting for the newspaper to be delivered to obtain the news"? Isn't this ageism? And, more to my point, it was a personal comment. Deal with issues not the person. I am not the issue. It boils down to a simple disagreement about HC and nothing more. Discuss the disagreement not the person. Look, you & nj and the other fine men/women will carry the alum torch into the future. Respectfully.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 27, 2022 13:37:03 GMT -5
How did Ann McD hold onto her job for as long as she did? Would not the BOT have looked at our numbers plummeting across the board in several verticals and realize a change in leadership needed to be made?
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Post by mm67 on Mar 27, 2022 13:49:53 GMT -5
Could it be she was trying desperately to avoid trendiness and trying to hold onto the traditional approach which made HC great. As her numbers declined nationally, she turned to the safety of the Commonwealth. Or, maybe she burnt out. Or, possibly she did as well as anyone could. Or...
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Post by crusader99 on Mar 27, 2022 13:55:15 GMT -5
Mm .. please no disrespect was meant by my comments.. if they were too sharp, please accept my apology… we all want the best for HC. I sent 2 of my children to the Hill (hopefully a 3rd as well) and my wife and I could not be happier. They are both receiving a great education, meeting life long friends (and hopefully spouses) and have had the room to grow as people. We and they certainly understand that the road was paved with the efforts and treasure of others. Have an enjoyable Sunday.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 27, 2022 14:00:37 GMT -5
Could it be she was trying desperately to avoid trendiness and trying to hold onto the traditional approach which made HC great. As her numbers declined nationally, she turned to the safety of the Commonwealth. Or, maybe she burnt out. Or, possibly she did as well as anyone could. Or... I could see a more concentrated local outreach effort focused on Greater Worcester. If that was the reason for the spike in in-state enrollment, that's more acceptable IMO than if we just wound up doubling down on the "inside 495" demographic. I'm sure Fordham concentrates efforts on trying to recruit qualifying undergrad applicants from the Bronx. 54% in-state is a big number for a school like Holy Cross. When I was in school it was roughly 35%, 40% tops IIRC. Typically it felt like HC was about 1/3 in-state, 1/3 NY/NJ/CT and 1/3 from elsewhere.
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Post by crusader99 on Mar 27, 2022 14:23:32 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 27, 2022 14:30:04 GMT -5
Sounds like Coack K is just trying to justify his enormous compensation package by suggesting that basketball success always leads to a big payoff for a college
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Post by mm67 on Mar 27, 2022 14:30:38 GMT -5
I assume St. Peter's has a small endowment. The trip to the Big Dance may in fact provide the funds to forestall the creditors and keep the school afloat. Wish them well.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 27, 2022 16:15:46 GMT -5
A bit of cut and paste from an older thread on admissions for the class of 2025. crossports.freeforums.net/thread/5388/admissions-stats-hccrossports linkit's quite clear that the admissions bus went off the road starting with the class of 2024, and the bus was still mired in the ditch the following year, for the class of 2025. What seems to have happened is that Ann's methods for outreach to more distant regions and more diverse populations fell apart during the pandemic,, and she was unable to adjust / re-calibrate her approach. Other schools obviously did, given their applicant totals. (Or their outreach approaches were much less susceptible to being disrupted by a pandemic.) And Ann resorted to what was most familiar: Massachusetts, New England, private schools, Catholic schools, and where there were long-standing connections. ________________________ Geographic assignments for the current HC admissions staff.The staff are listed by hierarchical title in the Office Of Admissions, Director of Admissions at the top, Admissions counselor at the bottom. >AK, HI, ME, NY (Rockland, Westchester), Puerto Rico, US Territories > MA (Essex/Middlesex)
>DC, MD, RI, VA >(Fr. Markey, select Jesuit high schools) [Given that he is age 90 or so, I don't consider him a full-time staff member] >CT (except Fairfield), DE, NY (Albany Poughkeepsie), PA, MA (Berkshire, Franklin, Hampden, Hampshire)
>FL, IL, WI, MI, International >AL, AR, CO, GA, KS, IA, LA, MN, MS, MO, NB, NY (LI, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse) >AZ, NV, NM, NJ, VT, select schools in MA
> MA (Boston), NC, SC, TN >CT (Fairfield), ID, MT, ND, OR, SD, WA, WY, transfers >CA, IN, KY, MA (South Shore, Cape Cod, the Islands), NH, OH, UT (This admissions counsellor is HC class of 2021) > MA (Worcester), NY (NYC), TX, OK (This admissions counsellor is HC class of 2020). ^^^ As can be seen, the two most junior members of the staff have CA, TX, and NYC., which have a combined population of 80+ million, a quarter of the U.S. population. Omitting the one admissions staffer who has select schools in MA, and Fr. Markey, five of the 11 staff cover parts of MA. That is an improvement from 18 months ago, when it was seven of 11. I do not know whether two new staffers supposedly hired recently are included in the total. ------------------------------------------- From Matunuck in last year's thread. Wesleyan has about the same number of undergraduates as HC. Wesleyan's admission staff, listed by hierarchical title, and their geographical assignments.>Hawaii, Australia, Oceania, Latin America, New Zealand > New York (Manhattan), Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka >Illinois, Minnesota, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin >Arizona, Florida, New Mexico, Nevada, Oklahoma, Texas
>Colorado, Idaho, Massachusetts, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Wyoming. >Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, New York, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia >Connecticut (Fairfield Co.), New York (Westchester) >East/Southeast/Central Asia (excluding China), Massachusetts (Worcester, Quincy/Plymouth, Cape Cod), California (San Francisco/Oakland, Sacramento)
> California (Greater Los Angeles, So. Cal), New York (Long Island) >Massachusetts, International > California (Central Coast North to South Bay Area), New York (Staten Island, Brooklyn, Manhattan), Caribbean, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands >Alaska, Delaware, DC, Maryland, Oregon, Washington, Virginia (Northern VA and Fairfax Co.), Canada. >China, Connecticut (except Fairfield Co.)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 27, 2022 18:37:07 GMT -5
A bit of cut and paste from an older thread on admissions for the class of 2025. The African American and Asian numbers look very small compared to other peers.
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 27, 2022 20:25:20 GMT -5
I assume St. Peter's has a small endowment. The trip to the Big Dance may in fact provide the funds to forestall the creditors and keep the school afloat. Wish them well. You believe EVERY college is closing...that is it you do on here. St Peter's is only 29 years younger than HC. St Peter's endowment is 37 million and the school is 17 percent as big as Holy Cross by land.
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Post by mm67 on Mar 27, 2022 20:53:00 GMT -5
I assume St. Peter's has a small endowment. The trip to the Big Dance may in fact provide the funds to forestall the creditors and keep the school afloat. Wish them well. You believe EVERY college is closing...that is it you do on here. St Peter's is only 29 years younger than HC. St Peter's endowment is 37 million and the school is 17 percent as big as Holy Cross by land. I believe every college is closing? Huh?Where did you get such foolishness? I truly do not understand your post. Suggest you relax and get your facts straight before you embarrass yourself again.
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 27, 2022 21:00:16 GMT -5
You believe EVERY college is closing...that is it you do on here. St Peter's is only 29 years younger than HC. St Peter's endowment is 37 million and the school is 17 percent as big as Holy Cross by land. I believe every college is closing? Huh?Where did you get such foolishness? I truly do not understand your post. Suggest you relax and get your facts straight before you embarrass yourself again. It wasn't you but we see so many posts on here belittling school's endowments and debt ratings. Like PCs debt rating going down about 18 months ago but they just announced a brand new dorm a few weeks ago now. www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2022/03/10/providence-college-plans-new-dorm-renovate-aquinas-hall/6985003001/
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 27, 2022 21:55:54 GMT -5
Surprised St. Peter's endowment is modest as they are so close to Wall St., which I assume has been a destination for a chunk of their alumni over the years. Even though HC has not achieved the highest investment return on their endowment in recent years, the Development Dept. has been quite adept at gathering donations for a long time. The culture of putting the arm on the alumni might not have been as ingrained at St. Peters.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 27, 2022 22:07:54 GMT -5
Attractive rendering. The windows are very close to the outfield fence of the softball diamond. P.C. can't recruit too many sluggers now. It looks like it could be a baseball diamond from what is shown, but I know PC dropped baseball. Would they still have such a well manicured field for a club baseball team?
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 27, 2022 23:35:05 GMT -5
Attractive rendering. The windows are very close to the outfield fence of the softball diamond. P.C. can't recruit too many sluggers now. It looks like it could be a baseball diamond from what is shown, but I know PC dropped baseball. Would they still have such a well manicured field for a club baseball team? Softball stadium which is in the middle of campus with field turf.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 28, 2022 7:35:06 GMT -5
I assume St. Peter's has a small endowment. The trip to the Big Dance may in fact provide the funds to forestall the creditors and keep the school afloat. Wish them well. You believe EVERY college is closing...that is it you do on here. St Peter's is only 29 years younger than HC. St Peter's endowment is 37 million and the school is 17 percent as big as Holy Cross by land. Foley, stop embarrassing yourself by by presenting subject matter about which you apparently know little. First, comparisons of land area are typically not a meaningful comparison between different colleges and universities: Mount Holyoke's land is 800 acres, Babson's 370 acres, Georgetown's 104 acres. Land typically is not part of an institution's endowment, unless it is land used for investment purpose, e.g., MIT owns land and commercial property in Kendall Square in Cambridge, which is a huge source of generated revenue. If one want's to compare two institutions financial condition and include the value of the land that each institution owns, the measure for that is total net assets, which includes the value of St. Peter's land and the value of its endowment. St., Peter's does not publish its annual financial statements, so one has to find IRS Form 990s on the web, typically published by a third party. For St. Peter's, the 990 form for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2017, reveals a net assets value of $52 million. Holy Cross' net asset value on June 30, 2021, was $1.618 billion, $389 million of which was land and buildings. That is not the replacement value of buildings, but the depreciated value. Many buildings on an older campus are fully depreciated, i.e., their value from an accounting standpoint is $0. Depreciation is carried as an operating expense. In the year ending June 30, 2021, Holy Cross' depreciation expense was $18+ million, this represents the decreasing value of newer buildings on campus. .
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Post by hcpride on Mar 28, 2022 9:02:24 GMT -5
A bit of cut and paste from an older thread on admissions for the class of 2025. The African American and Asian numbers look very small compared to other peers. I have a ready explanation as to why Asian numbers may be ‘small’ at our particular Catholic and strictly liberal arts institution, The College of the Holy Cross ✝️. Beyond that, which schools do you consider our peer institutions? (I’m actually curious because that has been a source of much discussion.) To the extent this reveals peers, and perhaps it doesn’t, I’d guess Fordham and PC have the most similar populations from an academic standpoint amongst our significant applicant schools.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 28, 2022 9:19:26 GMT -5
The African American and Asian numbers look very small compared to other peers. I have a ready explanation as to why Asian numbers may be ‘small’ at our particular Catholic and strictly liberal arts institution, The College of the Holy Cross ✝️. Beyond that, which schools do you consider our peer institutions? (I’m actually curious because that has been a source of much discussion.) To the extent this reveals peers, and perhaps it doesn’t, I’d guess Fordham and PC have the most similar populations from an academic standpoint amongst our significant applicant schools. St, Mary's College (CA) 'The Gael' Ethnic diversity of fall 2020 undergraduate first-year students: Minority*: 55.8% Under-represented Minority (UREM)**: 41.9% White: 38.9% Hispanic/Latino: 30.7% Asian: 15.6% African American/Black: 5.6% Native American: 1.6% Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 3.0% International: 2.8% Notre Dame's 2021 entering class is 7.6 percent Asian, about 155 Asians in a class of 2,050. Holy Cross' 2020 entering class was about 2.5 percent Asian. news.nd.edu/news/class-of-2021-intellectually-and-globally-diverse-dedicated-to-service-and-leadership/
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 28, 2022 9:28:25 GMT -5
You believe EVERY college is closing...that is it you do on here. St Peter's is only 29 years younger than HC. St Peter's endowment is 37 million and the school is 17 percent as big as Holy Cross by land. Foley, stop embarrassing yourself by by presenting subject matter about which you apparently know little. First, comparisons of land area are typically not a meaningful comparison between different colleges and universities: Mount Holyoke's land is 800 acres, Babson's 370 acres, Georgetown's 104 acres. Land typically is not part of an institution's endowment, unless it is land used for investment purpose, e.g., MIT owns land and commercial property in Kendall Square in Cambridge, which is a huge source of generated revenue. If one want's to compare two institutions financial condition and include the value of the land that each institution owns, the measure for that is total net assets, which includes the value of St. Peter's land and the value of its endowment. St., Peter's does not publish its annual financial statements, so one has to find IRS Form 990s on the web, typically published by a third party. For St. Peter's, the 990 form for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2017, reveals a net assets value of $52 million. Holy Cross' net asset value on June 30, 2021, was $1.618 billion, $389 million of which was land and buildings. That is not the replacement value of buildings, but the depreciated value. Many buildings on an older campus are fully depreciated, i.e., their value from an accounting standpoint is $0. Depreciation is carried as an operating expense. In the year ending June 30, 2021, Holy Cross' depreciation expense was $18+ million, this represents the decreasing value of newer buildings on campus. . I wish I could get credit for taking a course when I read your posts. 370 acres in Wellesley, MA is Jed Clampett money. But 104 acres in Washington, DC might be worth more. Which would you estimate is more valuable?
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