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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 21, 2016 13:21:33 GMT -5
Short rotations mean more tired legs. More tired legs means worsening defense and free throw shooting. The opposition shot over 50% against us from the floor, and we were in the 60s% from the FT line. Both are unacceptable. We should aspire to keep opponents well down in the 40s at a minimum, and shoot in the mid 70s from the FT line, again at a minimum.
Remember CRW's pie of success? My pie has big pieces for opponents' shooting percentages (keeping down) and making FTs (keeping high). Just behind those two is defensive rebounding, which also is an ENERGY-type stat.
If we play a rotation of about 7-8 players, with the top 4-5 averaging in the mid 30s, then we are playing a short rotation and we can expect those game-clinching runs late in games from our opposition. We need a serviceable bench, even if they can't contribute significantly, if not for anything but resting our top guys.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 13:37:03 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Nov 21, 2016 13:37:03 GMT -5
PB will not have to steal minutes from anyone. He is firmly in the now short rotation he is averaging 30 mpg vs our toughest competition. AT is averaging 34.3 it looks as if CBC likes the 2 small guards lineup, at least as of now. If other players develop at some decent clip, then we well might see PB eat into AT's time. PB seems to play a lot more within himself. We can agree to disagree, and it is early, but I can see it happening. Cheers. Agree with the part about PB playing more within himself(with one exception yesterday), and hope others develop.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 13:42:07 GMT -5
Jim likes this
Post by dadominate on Nov 21, 2016 13:42:07 GMT -5
Short rotations mean more tired legs. More tired legs means worsening defense and free throw shooting. The opposition shot over 50% against us from the floor, and we were in the 60s% from the FT line. Both are unacceptable. We should aspire to keep opponents well down in the 40s at a minimum, and shoot in the mid 70s from the FT line, again at a minimum. Remember CRW's pie of success? My pie has big pieces for opponents' shooting percentages (keeping down) and making FTs (keeping high). Just behind those two is defensive rebounding, which also is an ENERGY-type stat. If we play a rotation of about 7-8 players, with the top 4-5 averaging in the mid 30s, then we are playing a short rotation and we can expect those game-clinching runs late in games from our opposition. We need a serviceable bench, even if they can't contribute significantly, if not for anything but resting our top guys. agree 100%. while i'm cautious to criticize a successful coach like carmody with a proven track record, my biggest criticism of him has been his allocation of minutes and rotations last year and this year. it was unfathomable that at played so many minutes last year and especially this year (despite his somewhat improved shooting), since benzan has established himself as a contributor and serviceable point guard. i don't like the "mini me" guard lineup at all as it contributes to our defensive woes and i wonder why at least ziggy, floyd, and husek (who all have some experience) aren't absorbing more of the minutes, thereby allowing either at or benzan to not be on the court at the same time so much. i can see the freshmen not being ready, but none of the aforementioned three are so bad that they can't play 15 minutes or so in every game. of course, we'll look better when we play competition at our level, but i hope such a short rotation will not continue into league play.
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Post by possum on Nov 21, 2016 13:56:03 GMT -5
SOV in order to show improvement next year the 8 unknowns you refer to will have to replace the current senior class that is playing almost 60% of the minutes so far this season. To date the current freshmen class hasn't even worked up a sweat in game action while ever other PL team is getting some production from their frosh. Probably the two most talented teams in the league, Lehigh and BU each have two freshmen in their regular rotation. In this day and age of AAU ball good players play immediately so its very concerning to me that our group is getting no time on the floor. Charles played right away so Carmody will play freshmen if they can play. AT time is not getting cut who is going to get his minutes. Its too bad that AT seems to be a target for some on this board because no player was more adversely affected by the coaching change than him. In the current style of play he is a square peg in a round hole but he has continued to play hard and do the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. To continually harp on him for being the reason team doesn't succeed is ridiculous.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 14:49:11 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 21, 2016 14:49:11 GMT -5
Here are the freshmen who played the most (say 20+ minutes per game) or who otherwise had a big influence on the team in the period specified 01-02 Nate Lufkin 03-04 Keith Simmons 05-06 Alex Vanderbaan 08-09 RJ Evans 11-12 Justin Burrell 12-13 Cullen Hamilton 13-14 Malachi Alexander and Anthony Thompson 15-16 Karl Charles I would strike MA and AT, likey Cullen too. Either way, the brevity of the list is the point. Anthony Thompson had a tremendous freshman season--absolutely outstanding. We should not let the fact that he has struggled since then obscure that fact.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 15:13:28 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 21, 2016 15:13:28 GMT -5
SOV in order to show improvement next year the 8 unknowns you refer to will have to replace the current senior class that is playing almost 60% of the minutes so far this season. To date the current freshmen class hasn't even worked up a sweat in game action while ever other PL team is getting some production from their frosh. Probably the two most talented teams in the league, Lehigh and BU each have two freshmen in their regular rotation. In this day and age of AAU ball good players play immediately so its very concerning to me that our group is getting no time on the floor. Charles played right away so Carmody will play freshmen if they can play. AT time is not getting cut who is going to get his minutes. Its too bad that AT seems to be a target for some on this board because no player was more adversely affected by the coaching change than him. In the current style of play he is a square peg in a round hole but he has continued to play hard and do the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. To continually harp on him for being the reason team doesn't succeed is ridiculous. Ken Pomeroy tracks what percentage of minutes each player plays for every team. Clayton LeSann has played 9.2% of available minutes in our first three games. Here's how much other PL teams have used freshmen. Rather than calculate the total minutes I think it's more informative to look also at how many freshmen are being used. Rather than type "%" over and over and deal with meaningless decimals, I've rounded the numbers off. Lafayette: 55, 53, 32, 29 (so one freshman has played 55% of minutes, another 53% of minutes, etc.) American U: 86, 64 Loyola: 55, 33, 22, 18, 10 Army: 74, 39 Boston U: 46, 40, 16 Lehigh: 54, 51 Colgate: 53 Navy: 52 Bucknell: 23, 20, 8 Holy Cross: 9 Note: This looks only at % of minutes played--no analysis of points, rebounds, defense, total contribution.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 15:29:18 GMT -5
Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 21, 2016 15:29:18 GMT -5
SOV in order to show improvement next year the 8 unknowns you refer to will have to replace the current senior class that is playing almost 60% of the minutes so far this season. To date the current freshmen class hasn't even worked up a sweat in game action while ever other PL team is getting some production from their frosh. Probably the two most talented teams in the league, Lehigh and BU each have two freshmen in their regular rotation. In this day and age of AAU ball good players play immediately so its very concerning to me that our group is getting no time on the floor. Charles played right away so Carmody will play freshmen if they can play. AT time is not getting cut who is going to get his minutes. Its too bad that AT seems to be a target for some on this board because no player was more adversely affected by the coaching change than him. In the current style of play he is a square peg in a round hole but he has continued to play hard and do the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. To continually harp on him for being the reason team doesn't succeed is ridiculous. Ken Pomeroy tracks what percentage of minutes each player plays for every team. Clayton LeSann has played 9.2% of available minutes in our first three games. Here's how much other PL teams have used freshmen. Rather than calculate the total minutes I think it's more informative to look also at how many freshmen are being used. Rather than type "%" over and over and deal with meaningless decimals, I've rounded the numbers off. Lafayette: 55, 53, 32, 29 (so one freshman has played 55% of minutes, another 53% of minutes, etc.) American U: 86, 64 Loyola: 55, 33, 22, 18, 10 Army: 74, 39 Boston U: 46, 40, 16 Lehigh: 54, 51 Colgate: 53 Navy: 52 Bucknell: 23, 20, 8 Holy Cross: 9 Note: This looks only at % of minutes played--no analysis of points, rebounds, defense, total contribution. What a great piece of data. GLARING.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 15:37:47 GMT -5
Post by sarasota on Nov 21, 2016 15:37:47 GMT -5
PB is clearly more of a pure pt guard than AT. His distribution skills are markedly better than AT's. AT is really a sort of hybrid pt/shooting guard as he does launch threes unlike PB. In fact, AT mostly slashes to the rim and launches threes than looks for distribution. When and if we run a PO, PB fits much better into that scheme.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 15:43:43 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Nov 21, 2016 15:43:43 GMT -5
. When and if we run a PO... We have run only the PO against every man D we have faced in the past two seasons.and a Variation of it against zones. i am quite sure that this will continue.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 15:49:50 GMT -5
Post by sarasota on Nov 21, 2016 15:49:50 GMT -5
hchoops- With respect.....our incessant passing around the 3 pt line and then desperation as the clock winds down is more reminiscent of CMB than it is of the PO. Also, whoever moves to the top of the key hardly ever turns around to look for back door cutters.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 15:55:04 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Nov 21, 2016 15:55:04 GMT -5
hchoops- With respect.....our incessant passing around the 3 pt line and then desperation as the clock winds down is more reminiscent of CMB than it is of the PO. Also, whoever moves to the top of the key hardly ever turns around to look for back door cutters. However you describe it, accurate or not, it is still the PO. you can look at American, Richmond and others if you do not take my word for it.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 16:04:58 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 21, 2016 16:04:58 GMT -5
hchoops- With respect.....our incessant passing around the 3 pt line and then desperation as the clock winds down is more reminiscent of CMB than it is of the PO. Also, whoever moves to the top of the key hardly ever turns around to look for back door cutters. However you describe it, accurate or not, it is still the PO. you can look at American, Richmond and others if you do not take my word for it. Those two schools haven't shot the three at the rate we have this season, though. 51% of our FGA have been 3PT. Richmond is at 32% and American at 40.7%. I suspect this number will come down to the 40-45% range, but with a dearth of shooters currently seeing minutes, this spells problems.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 16:10:45 GMT -5
Post by sarasota on Nov 21, 2016 16:10:45 GMT -5
hoops- Our players are making half hearted attempts at best at running the PO. Right now the PO exists more in your mind and CBC's mind than it does on the floor. Even if opponents are successfully defending against a PO, you can still see the ATTEMPT at running the PO. We're doing it very sporadically. Here's the famous 1996 NCAA Game Princeton-UCLA:
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 16:20:29 GMT -5
Post by DiMarz on Nov 21, 2016 16:20:29 GMT -5
When I think about PB and JF, they are somewhat first year players....
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 21, 2016 16:31:03 GMT -5
IIRC, Jehyve Floyd did not play AAU ball. That is part of the reason for his slower development. Clayton LeShan is older than most frosh in the PL, but he is still finding ways to fit into a new hoop culture in the U.S. Both players are getting help from teammates and coaches and will develop.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 17:31:15 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 21, 2016 17:31:15 GMT -5
However you describe it, accurate or not, it is still the PO. you can look at American, Richmond and others if you do not take my word for it. Those two schools haven't shot the three at the rate we have this season, though. 51% of our FGA have been 3PT. Richmond is at 32% and American at 40.7%. I suspect this number will come down to the 40-45% range, but with a dearth of shooters currently seeing minutes, this spells problems. Carmody's Northwestern teams typically took about 45% of their shots from beyond the arc, usually among the top 20 in D1, often in the top 10. Unsurprisingly, the coach who most resembled him in this respect during that tenure was the same one who most resembled him in pace of play and indifference to offensive rebounding - Joe Scott. In fact, Scott's Air Force and Princeton teams averaged about 50% of their shots from deep (nearly 55% in his first year at AF), leading the country three times and finishing in the top three nationally seven straight years. Whatever Joe Scott was hired to do here, it was not to provide a complementary offensive approach. I expect a lot of threes.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 17:43:39 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Nov 21, 2016 17:43:39 GMT -5
Last season we shot 41% of our field goals from 3
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 17:49:40 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 21, 2016 17:49:40 GMT -5
Last season we shot 41% of our field goals from 3 And we shot a poor 32.6%. It would be great to get to 35% - 36% this season.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 21, 2016 18:31:50 GMT -5
In regards to playing time - based on his reaction (and answer) to my Coaches Night question about offensive positions on the floor (and for those in attendance, correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think Coach Carm gives a hoot about what 5 guys are on the floor at the same time; he wants the 5 best shooters/scorers out there, or at least the guys that give them the best chance of scoring. I think we spend a lot more time worrying about who's a "5", "4", 3, 2 or 1 than he does.
In regards to freshman, my take is it just seems like Coach Carm is REAL reluctant to put his trust in a freshman, unless they prove in his eyes that it beats taking an experienced guy out of the lineup. My guess is any frosh has to be lights out in practice to earn that trust.
With JF, remember that the prior staff originally wanted him to prep a year, then had to change plans when Montae Glennn chose Georgia Southern (State?).
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 18:53:26 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 21, 2016 18:53:26 GMT -5
Last season we shot 41% of our field goals from 3 And we shot a poor 32.6%. It would be great to get to 35% - 36% this season. I think that is doable. In my "analysis" in the "how many games will HC win?" thread I suggested we could move up 100 places from last year's #261 (32.6% as noted) among D-1 teams. 35% gets you to #156 and 36% was #114 last season. Moving up 100 places is a realistic goal, in my opinion, based on (1) AT improving from his woeful 25.6% and/or not taking the most shots as he did last season (2) CHam's 30.8% is leaving the equation and (3) Karl Charles will almost surely improve his three point shooting as a soph as (a) he improved as the season progressed and (b) many, many players improve their 3 point shooting from frosh to soph year. We are at #293 after three games and I still think we can move up that 100 places from last season.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 19:07:31 GMT -5
Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 21, 2016 19:07:31 GMT -5
Just heard NAD's You You You. Announcer is EXCELLENT. Sarasota, wanted to respond to this. You may have heard me, but yesterday, it very well could have been the band. They actually took the lead on this, and am looking forward to hearing them at the Hart. I've wanted the band/students to take the lead, and to hear them was way cool. In some ways I feel like my work is done ha. HC16 certainly played the leading role in the transition last year, by the way!
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Post by HC1843 on Nov 21, 2016 19:47:50 GMT -5
hchoops- With respect.....our incessant passing around the 3 pt line and then desperation as the clock winds down is more reminiscent of CMB than it is of the PO. Also, whoever moves to the top of the key hardly ever turns around to look for back door cutters. Not even remotely true.
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UMass
Nov 21, 2016 19:54:39 GMT -5
Post by lou on Nov 21, 2016 19:54:39 GMT -5
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UMass
Nov 22, 2016 22:11:36 GMT -5
via mobile
rgs318 likes this
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 22, 2016 22:11:36 GMT -5
Of that group Charles is a good but not top level talent, Benzan will be a serviceable player but limited by inability to score anything other than lay ups. Well, glad we can put that to rest.
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Post by sarasota on Nov 23, 2016 6:58:18 GMT -5
NAD- Fifty years from now the band will be chanting "You You You" and someone will ask "Who started that?" and someone will answer "They say some fanatic way back in the teens used to yell that, something about NAD, buy nobody knows what that means." It is a sort of immortality.
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