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Post by longsuffering on Sept 9, 2022 9:41:50 GMT -5
â Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership.â Excuse me if I insist you add the Patriot League to your above statement. Or a duel at dawn will commence. Nobody disses the PL.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 9, 2022 10:02:53 GMT -5
â Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership.â Excuse me if I insist you add the Patriot League to your above statement. I think many observers would correlate academic reputation with both the Patriot League and NESCAC
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Post by hcpride on Sept 9, 2022 10:17:59 GMT -5
I think the schools you note (and many others) donât buy the notion that your football conference determines (or even influences) your academic reputation. MIT and University of Chicago and Johns Hopkins (NEWMAC, Midwest, and Centennial Conferences) would agree. So I donât see football conference departures to join more academically focused schools in the foreseeable future. Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership. Are you saying the academic reputation of American and Loyola, for example, did not necessarily improve upon joining the PL?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 9, 2022 10:18:58 GMT -5
Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership. Are you saying the academic reputation of American and Loyola, for example, did not necessarily improve upon joining the PL? Yes
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 9, 2022 10:20:37 GMT -5
â Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership.â Excuse me if I insist you add the Patriot League to your above statement. I think many observers would correlate academic reputation with both the Patriot League and NESCACÂ It was noted recently that HC women's soccer has one win in it's last twenty-four matches. There has to be some bleed over from sports performance to overall reputation. D-3 NESCAC schools have more cover since their teams get less ink. There isn't much significance between one school averaging .450 across the board compared to a peer averaging .550, but when you start getting down into the .300s consistently that has to penetrate the psychie, perhaps on campus more than externally. It strikes me as hard to hide persistent losing completely. It's not fair to the student athletes either. HC should play up the current FB success as much as possible.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 9, 2022 10:34:17 GMT -5
Are you saying the academic reputation of American and Loyola, for example, did not necessarily improve upon joining the PL? Yes You are probably correct. But I had just about never heard of Loyola of Baltimore before they joined, academically or athletically. I had never heard of American athletically before they joined but I knew of them academically because in one Worcester Congressional election in the 90s, both the Democratic and Republican nominees had masters degrees in Government from American, so I thought highly of the school in that academic discipline. It's not completely controllable how a school's reputation filters out and gets established in different segments of the public. But to some extent athletic competitiveness can be influenced by PTB decisions so PVR, Kit et al should get to it.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 9, 2022 10:54:23 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 9, 2022 11:24:51 GMT -5
â Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership.â Excuse me if I insist you add the Patriot League to your above statement. I think many observers would correlate academic reputation with both the Patriot League and NESCACÂ MAYBE the NESCAC at the lower end. Possibly being in same league as Williams and Amherst lifts the academic boat that is Wesleyan, Colby and Trinity to a limited extent. But I doubt it. No one could name whatever conference Macalester plays in and they're rep is just as strong. If Bates left the NESCAC tomorrow and formed a league with Husson, Maine Maritime, Southern Maine and the College of New England, would applications drop? I doubt it. How has the academic reputation of Holy Cross been boosted by joining the PL after leaving the MAAC? Spoiler alert, it hasn't. Northeastern's average SAT score has probably gone up 200 points the last 20 years, and they've been athletically aligned with the likes of Towson, UNC Wilmington, JMU, Delaware, Hofstra, George Mason and VCU for much of that time (joined CAA in '02 for all sports).
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Post by efg72 on Sept 9, 2022 11:33:52 GMT -5
My point in raising the list of schools was they enjoy a strong academic reputation and the athletics, for the most part, are mid to bottom of the conference standings. Will they be kept or dropped by others as they create a new version of the Power Conferences?
I don't know the answer, but the question remains for many of these schools ---where do I go when the music stops and I don't have a chair?
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2022 11:37:24 GMT -5
Outside of the Ivy League, there is zero correlation between academic rep and sports conference membership. Are you saying the academic reputation of American and Loyola, for example, did not necessarily improve upon joining the PL? In looking at old stats, it appears the academic standing of both did improve with PL membership (and our AI). Pure coincidence? IMHO, no.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 9, 2022 12:15:53 GMT -5
I think we are discussing several different issues above. I addressed the issue of whether observers look at any conference other than the Ivy League and say âyeah, XYZ conference schools are strong academicallyâ. I think others are addressing other issues such as â is it possible for a school to be well regarded academically if itâs in a conference with some weak academic schoolsâ. I think they are different issues.
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77hc
Newbie
Posts: 4
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Post by 77hc on Sept 9, 2022 13:14:36 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 9, 2022 13:28:43 GMT -5
We lost a PL ROY in the NIL era, but we lost one before NIL, too. And we got a ROY from another league to transfer in in with no known NIL payments. NIL is another reason to treasure (too strong a word?) the PL.
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 9, 2022 14:06:56 GMT -5
77hc paints a very bleak picture and it turns me off from even wanting to follow these schools. We already have the NFL. Consequently, I find the article at the beginning of this thread so intriguing! Creating a path forward for true student athletes to emerge may well be the driving force that brings about a type of counter revolution, and the Patriot League is well positioned in that scenario. If other schools around the country have a similar ethos, we may well see important moves in alignment. I agree that Stanford going to the Patriot League is quite a leap, but might they agitate for a like minded conference in the West? These are interesting times.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 9, 2022 14:52:10 GMT -5
Thanks, 77 Very depressing
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Post by jkh67 on Sept 9, 2022 16:18:35 GMT -5
The article is a tongue firmly in cheek spoof of the problems academically oriented FBS universities...many of them private...are encountering as the FBS...dominated by big state universities (with the exception of ND)...goes through its Frankenstein conference realignment phase. Obviously, there is zero chance that a school like Stanford is going to look at the PL (or the IL for that matter) as a possible future home for its football program. (That's not to say that the Indians...er, the Cardinal...might not wind up aligning with comparable academically-oriented FBS schools somewhere down the road.) But what I found most interesting about the article was its identification of the PL (along, obviously) with the IL, as groups of academically superior schools in the FCS. Maybe there's something after all to the old Brooks conviction that "you're known by the company you keep"!
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Post by efg72 on Sept 9, 2022 16:29:21 GMT -5
Like it or not the ACC/PAc12 of today might be better academically, at least in rankings than the PL
Duke UNC UVA Wake BC Georgia Tech
Cal Stanford Ucla USC
Might have left some out
We are special, but so many quality schools out there we need to be careful in judging
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 9, 2022 17:36:56 GMT -5
Like it or not the ACC/PAc12 of today might be better academically, at least in rankings than the PL Duke UNC UVA Wake BC Georgia Tech Cal Stanford Ucla USC Might have left some out We are special, but so many quality schools out there we need to be careful in judging Hard to throw our undergrad programs up against their complete universities and come out with an exact comparison.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 9, 2022 17:50:09 GMT -5
Like it or not the ACC/PAc12 of today might be better academically, at least in rankings than the PL Duke UNC UVA Wake BC Georgia Tech Cal Stanford Ucla USC Might have left some out We are special, but so many quality schools out there we need to be careful in judging Valid at the top, but you cannot ignore the middle/bottom of those conferences - NC State, Clemson, Miami, Louisville, Fla State, Oregon, OSU, Washington, WSU, ASU
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Post by efg72 on Sept 9, 2022 17:50:46 GMT -5
I said rankings (by third parties that control the metrics)
Look this is going to be interesting as it unfolds, put your seat belts on
And not making true comparisons, but how things might be perceived by the world outside of New England
In the south schools like Clemson, Va Tech,NC Stare, Ga, Auburn etc are considered terrific schools and out of state students need similar credentials to those we associate courselves with today
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 9, 2022 17:58:38 GMT -5
I hear ASU has some pretty good parties though.
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