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Post by breezy on Nov 28, 2022 9:48:59 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Nov 28, 2022 9:55:31 GMT -5
Wow 658 casualties. Wonder if many/any patrons were not affected ? Must have been a huge venue. And, of course, more would have been there if HC had not won..
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Post by football44 on Nov 28, 2022 10:18:53 GMT -5
Before committing to HC back in the 70's this story was huge with my father and uncle. All they talked about was how BC was supposed to have beaten HC that day and if so how many more people would have died. A very sad and tragic story.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2022 10:26:51 GMT -5
Before committing to HC back in the 70's this story was huge with my father and uncle. All they talked about was how BC was supposed to have beaten HC that day and if so how many more people would have died. A very sad and tragic story. Many more would have died, including our future head coach Eddie Doherty who was quarterback for bc. One amazing coincidence about the game itself was that on the front page of the game program were two Holy Cross players, #55 & #12--and that turned out to be the final score.
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Post by football44 on Nov 28, 2022 10:40:00 GMT -5
Before committing to HC back in the 70's this story was huge with my father and uncle. All they talked about was how BC was supposed to have beaten HC that day and if so how many more people would have died. A very sad and tragic story. Many more would have died, including our future head coach Eddie Doherty who was quarterback for bc. One amazing coincidence about the game itself was that on the front page of the game program were two Holy Cross players, #55 & #12--and that turned out to be the final score. Great point KY Crusader. Ed Doherty was my coach and the reason my father spoke about the fire was because of his talks with Eddie Do regarding my going to HC. Small world!
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 28, 2022 10:41:16 GMT -5
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 28, 2022 10:43:49 GMT -5
Forever changed the approach to burn care all over the world
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2022 11:25:25 GMT -5
Lots of HC people died that day. Groups of celebrating Crusaders went to the Coconut Grove that day saying the BC people wouldn't be needing their reservations.
I used to work with a guy who did not go to HC, but was part of the local following who did just that. He was out of work for months recovering from his burns.
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Post by alum on Nov 28, 2022 11:31:46 GMT -5
Story in the Globe about the anniversary maintains that the story that BC was to have a party there that night was a myth. www.bostonglobe.com/2022/11/27/metro/ceremony-be-held-marking-80th-anniversary-cocoanut-grove-nightclub-fire-mysteries-myths-persist-years-later/"Schorow said one of the myths involves the college football game that was played at Fenway Park on that fateful day. Boston College lost to Holy Cross by a score of 55 to 12, and according to local lore, the Boston College team canceled their plans for a celebration at the Cocoanut Grove that night due to the loss, thereby avoiding the tragic fire.
But that story didn’t sit right with Schorow. With the help of Cocoanut Grove researcher David Blaney, Schorow found newspaper accounts reporting that a team party for Boston College was actually held at the Hotel Statler that night.
It’s possible some BC players may have planned to meet up at the Cocoanut Grove later, Schorow said, “but that is speculation.” She also noted that the previous year, in 1941, BC’s team celebration was indeed held at the Cocoanut Grove, “which may have helped fuel the myth.”
“But the story of how a terrible defeat saved BC lives has been repeated so many times it’s engrained into the history of the doomed nightclub,” she said. “I think it underscores a greater truth — that we humans are desperate to see meaning even in horrific events and we have to believe in a divine purpose for all our lives.”'
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2022 12:03:58 GMT -5
Story in the Globe about the anniversary maintains that the story that BC was to have a party there that night was a myth. www.bostonglobe.com/2022/11/27/metro/ceremony-be-held-marking-80th-anniversary-cocoanut-grove-nightclub-fire-mysteries-myths-persist-years-later/"Schorow said one of the myths involves the college football game that was played at Fenway Park on that fateful day. Boston College lost to Holy Cross by a score of 55 to 12, and according to local lore, the Boston College team canceled their plans for a celebration at the Cocoanut Grove that night due to the loss, thereby avoiding the tragic fire.
But that story didn’t sit right with Schorow. With the help of Cocoanut Grove researcher David Blaney, Schorow found newspaper accounts reporting that a team party for Boston College was actually held at the Hotel Statler that night.
It’s possible some BC players may have planned to meet up at the Cocoanut Grove later, Schorow said, “but that is speculation.” She also noted that the previous year, in 1941, BC’s team celebration was indeed held at the Cocoanut Grove, “which may have helped fuel the myth.”
“But the story of how a terrible defeat saved BC lives has been repeated so many times it’s engrained into the history of the doomed nightclub,” she said. “I think it underscores a greater truth — that we humans are desperate to see meaning even in horrific events and we have to believe in a divine purpose for all our lives.”'
Maybe it was BC fans and alums who had planned a big celebration there
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Post by alum on Nov 28, 2022 12:16:51 GMT -5
Story in the Globe about the anniversary maintains that the story that BC was to have a party there that night was a myth. www.bostonglobe.com/2022/11/27/metro/ceremony-be-held-marking-80th-anniversary-cocoanut-grove-nightclub-fire-mysteries-myths-persist-years-later/"Schorow said one of the myths involves the college football game that was played at Fenway Park on that fateful day. Boston College lost to Holy Cross by a score of 55 to 12, and according to local lore, the Boston College team canceled their plans for a celebration at the Cocoanut Grove that night due to the loss, thereby avoiding the tragic fire.
But that story didn’t sit right with Schorow. With the help of Cocoanut Grove researcher David Blaney, Schorow found newspaper accounts reporting that a team party for Boston College was actually held at the Hotel Statler that night.
It’s possible some BC players may have planned to meet up at the Cocoanut Grove later, Schorow said, “but that is speculation.” She also noted that the previous year, in 1941, BC’s team celebration was indeed held at the Cocoanut Grove, “which may have helped fuel the myth.”
“But the story of how a terrible defeat saved BC lives has been repeated so many times it’s engrained into the history of the doomed nightclub,” she said. “I think it underscores a greater truth — that we humans are desperate to see meaning even in horrific events and we have to believe in a divine purpose for all our lives.”'
Maybe it was BC fans and alums who had planned a big celebration there I think you are probably right
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Post by hcnation on Nov 28, 2022 18:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by timholycross on Nov 28, 2022 18:56:18 GMT -5
Forever changed the approach to burn care all over the world Just in time to help the wounded w/burns in WW2.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 28, 2022 19:00:16 GMT -5
Maybe it was BC fans and alums who had planned a big celebration there I think you are probably right If the place was jam-packed (which was part of the problem), then it was a case more of WHO got killed and not how many more got killed
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Post by deep Purple on Nov 28, 2022 19:36:08 GMT -5
Looks like this story is on the foxnews website. No mention of the HC/BC game.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 28, 2022 20:01:51 GMT -5
With regards to the "myth", kind of makes sense.
If BC had planned a post-game party there, and presumably paid in advance for table space or a private room, why would the team and supporters not have gone to the club just because they lost?
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 28, 2022 20:17:55 GMT -5
Not just lost, the very heavily favored Eagles got destroyed in what was considered for many decades to be the greatest upset in college football history.
Not saying the story is true but since the Coconut Grove was "the place," I would be shocked if post-game celebrations weren't planned there, if not for the players, certainly many of the fans.
I was fortunate to meet the Holy Cross captain of the team once and was the father of one of my football Classmates. An outstanding Crusader, R.I.P. "Captain" Murphy.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 28, 2022 20:21:41 GMT -5
Not just lost, the very heavily favored Eagles got destroyed in what was considered for many decades to be the greatest upset in college football history. Not saying the story is true but since the Coconut Grove was "the place," I would be shocked if post-game celebrations weren't planned there, if not for the players, certainly many of the fans. I was fortunate to meet the Holy Cross captain of the team once and was the father of one of my football Classmates. An outstanding Crusader, R.I.P. "Captain" Murphy. I seem to recall BC being ranked #1 when I've heard the story recounted. If not #1, a win would've sent them to a bowl game where they would have had a chance at a share of the national championship with a win. I bought and framed a picture of the scoreboard from that game at Fenway my first day on campus at HC. Hung up in my dorm room all four years and graces my home office to this day. 54-12 final IIRC. I think HC is up 48-6 in the pic.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 28, 2022 20:44:46 GMT -5
Yes, they were ranked #1.
And, as so frequently happens here, I'll repeat what I've posted in the past, perhaps years ago.
My Dad ('42) was in the Army. His younger brother ('43) had played freshmen football but had given it up for some reason and while not on the team, knew many of the Crusader players. My father was still somewhere within the U.S. and my uncle supposedly told him that the coaches had discovered some flaw or weakness in the Eagle defense (I have no idea what it was and if I was told, have long since forgotten it but had something to do with "mousetrapping" some of their All-American defensive linemen so they'd be running in the wrong direction). The players were so confident that they "guaranteed" they would win to my uncle. My father being the skeptical sort, took that information with a grain of salt.
So, the HC-BC games in those days were not even a half-notch below Army-Navy and some of my Dad's army buddies heard on the radio the halftime score and he scoffed and said "they must have reversed the score."
This game was a big, HUGE deal in those days.
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Post by hcnation on Nov 28, 2022 21:17:15 GMT -5
From Baltimore Sun article 1992 Two players -- George Connor, a member of both the college and pro football halls of fame, and Mike Holovak, general manager of the Houston Oilers -- let their minds trail back to a half-century ago to review what happened. "Simply put, everything went right for us and nothing worked for them," said Connor, then a 17-year-old Holy Cross guard who played 60 minutes. "We were crossing the goal line so fast a lot HTC of us couldn't add up the score. I was playing the strong-side guard and trapped Gil Bouley all day.
Now I'm going to tell you something I've never mentioned before," explained Connor. "Hugh Devore, one of our assistant coaches, was a Notre Dame man and a friend of Hunk Anderson, another Notre Damer, who was an assistant with the Bears under George Halas. The T-formation was new and the Bears had experience using it and also defending against it. Hunk gave Hughie the formula and we used it. The only thing we did differently on offense was to flank the fullback. We had great assistant coaches. 'Ank' Scanlan was our head coach and he commuted from Philadelphia, where he had a business, to Worcester, Mass., for most of our practices but not all of them. The assistants took up the slack, men like Devore, Lud Wray and Sheldon Beise. But our great victory quickly lost its impact when we heard about the firre.
What about the team party that had been called off? And why the Coconut Grove? "We had a lineman named Rocco Canale, weighed about 255 or 260," explained Holovak. "He had a good voice and liked to sing. Some friends had taken him to the Coconut Grove a couple weeks before. He made such a hit with the owner and the band they invited him to bring the whole B.C. squad there after the Holy Cross game. We would have been there except for how the game ended."
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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 28, 2022 21:26:06 GMT -5
They interview 2 Holy Cross fans who were new Worcester Fire Fighters. www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/telegram/name/donald-gribbons-obituary?id=11817643My great grandfather not even married yet went to this game with his friends. They were going to go to the Grove but he had to report to Ft Devens the next morning and decided against it. www.currentobituary.com/obit/20962 His Friend Eugene Gringas An avid sports fan who was a football season ticket holder at the College of the Holy Cross for over 40 years. It is one of the biggest upsets in sports history! Not just college football and yet the football game is an afterthought as it should be. What a sad day. I feel for everybody that was stuck in side. Thankful for the heroes like Gribbons above and the head water who helped get people out but eventually passed away.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 29, 2022 0:01:37 GMT -5
It made an ESPN show listing biggest upsets in college football 10-15 years ago.
BC was good enough that they got an Orange Bowl bid; a comedown from the Sugar Bowl return trip (1940-41) they were supposed to make; but no small accomplishment considering there were only 4 bowls in those days. So they were still Top 8 even with the loss.
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Post by Xmassader on Nov 29, 2022 0:10:48 GMT -5
Commonwealth vs. Welansky (316 Mass. 383) is the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court case related to the Cocoanut Grove fire in which the proprietor of the Cocoanut Grove appealed his criminal conviction of involuntary manslaughter as a result of his alleged wanton and reckless disregard of the safety of his patrons. The case first came to my attention in criminal law class in my first year of law school (‘70-‘71) where the prof related the story of the fire and the story that the outcome of the HC-BC football game (according to him, a big time rivalry game in the ‘40s along the lines of Army-Navy, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Michigan-Ohio State, etc.) saved the lives of some BC players and their families. Most of my fellow students chuckled in disbelief that the ‘42 HC-BC game was “big time” but the prof, to his credit, insisted that it was true.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 29, 2022 8:02:52 GMT -5
Prof. was probably a big football fan who rooted for the Wolverines.
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Post by alum on Nov 29, 2022 8:43:57 GMT -5
Commonwealth vs. Welansky (316 Mass. 383) is the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court case related to the Cocoanut Grove fire in which the proprietor of the Cocoanut Grove appealed his criminal conviction of involuntary manslaughter as a result of his alleged wanton and reckless disregard of the safety of his patrons. The case first came to my attention in criminal law class in my first year of law school (‘70-‘71) where the prof related the story of the fire and the story that the outcome of the HC-BC football game (according to him, a big time rivalry game in the ‘40s along the lines of Army-Navy, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Michigan-Ohio State, etc.) saved the lives of some BC players and their families. Most of my fellow students chuckled in disbelief that the ‘42 HC-BC game was “big time” but the prof, to his credit, insisted that it was true. You went and posted this, forcing me to go and read the case (which includes a lengthy discussion of the facts supporting the verdict.) Given that the emergency exits were nailed shut, I think that the guy deserved to be convicted. Below is a link anyone can use without a subscription to any service. The decision simply recites, "An important football game in the afternoon had attracted many visitors to Boston." Research indicates that Justice Lummus received a Bachelor of Law from BU three years after graduating from Lynn Classical. Obviously a hater. law.justia.com/cases/massachusetts/supreme-court/volumes/316/316mass383.html
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