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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2022 21:56:54 GMT -5
God, Country, Duty!!
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Post by gks on Dec 11, 2022 21:59:56 GMT -5
Reality check:
Navy has had two 11 win seasons out of the last eight. Oh yeah, you can also throw in a 9 win season in that stretch.
I have no clue if Coach Chesney would take the Navy job if offered but to claim it's a lateral move from HC is absolute insanity.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2022 22:04:41 GMT -5
Coaching at the academies is a rather nuanced operation and football head coach particularly so. I’m not aware of any Chesney connections to the military (service, assistant coaching, or otherwise) so I don’t see him heading to Navy as head coach at this point in his career. He is 45 years old...not that young anymore. He needs to make a move soon or will be labeled as best a FCS coach.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2022 22:07:02 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's a lateral move to Navy....just that it's going to be an exceedingly difficult job to win consistently there moving forward.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2022 22:07:50 GMT -5
A lateral move?
I think where HC is today and what is possible for him to accomplish during the next five years is more promising than what needs to be rebuilt at Navy
In the end any decision will be up to the Coach and his family.
I am not concerned and truly look forward to HC football in the days, months, and years ahead
Merry Christmas and God Bless
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2022 22:09:24 GMT -5
Navy is the opposite place to go if you’re a guy who wants it all. Dead end job that would put a cap on his career. Much better off winning big at HC the next 1-2 years and skipping the Navy step (potentially for BC) You may not be wrong. However, the last 2 great Navy coaches prior to Niamatalolo moved on to Virginia (Bob Welsh) and Georgia Tech (Paul Johnson). I think a main reason service academy jobs CAN have a ceiling is because of tbe unique offenses they run. But Chesney is a defensive guy ao maybe that wouldn't hold hin back. He'd obviosuly need an OC under him with a winning track record running the option. Holding out for a possible BC opening in 1-2 years COULD be the better option. Paul Johnson was 45 years old when he left Georgia Southern for Navy. Niumatalolo was 42 years old...
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 11, 2022 22:10:22 GMT -5
Pros and cons as a head coach at USNA:
Pros: Good, through not astronomical salary ($3 million) Football has lion's share of a $40 million budget funded through private foundation (NAAA) Few if any off-field incidents with players Able to recruit nationally Annapolis is a great place to live Full institutional support as long as you beat Army
Cons: Five year military service obligation at commissioning Higher academic requirements, some height and weight requirements as well Not gong to be in the ballpark for Top 200 recruits No path to the top 25 given softer schedules Football is not the sole priority for Midshipmen it would be elsewhere
It comes down to what a coach wants to be and where his next stop is. Ken Niumatalolo leaves USNA as the longest tenured coach in the academy's history and took them to 11 bowls in 15 years. He will have options.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2022 22:12:33 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2022 22:14:14 GMT -5
it's always interesting (to me anyway) on how your perspective on age differs as we spend more time on this mortal coil.
Coach Carter seemed like a "middle-aged guy" to me when he was at HC...he was 3 years younger than Ches (who seems like a young guy to me) is right now.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2022 22:14:21 GMT -5
Pros and cons as a head coach at USNA: Pros: Good, through not astronomical salary ($3 million) Football has lion's share of a $40 million budget funded through private foundation (NAAA) Few if any off-field incidents with players Able to recruit nationally Annapolis is a great place to live Full institutional support as long as you beat Army Cons: Five year military service obligation at commissioning Higher academic requirements, some height and weight requirements as well Not gong to be in the ballpark for Top 200 recruits No path to the top 25 given softer schedulesFootball is not the sole priority for Midshipmen it would be elsewhere It comes down to what a coach wants to be and where his next stop is. Ken Niumatalolo leaves USNA as the longest tenured coach in the academy's history and took them to 11 bowls in 15 years. He will have options. Navy finished ranked in 2015 and 2018 when in the AAC so there is a way to finish ranked.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 11, 2022 22:19:36 GMT -5
There is a chance to win a National championship at Holy Cross. That is not possible at Navy.
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 11, 2022 22:20:24 GMT -5
His time will come if he so choses. I think he has unfinished business next year like making it to the National Semis and Title Game. Two FBS wins in a season. Beat SDSU. Those seem like tangible goals looking at who we might bring back. If this was BC we were talking about with proximity, family, P5 prestige and salary, etc, I would be more worried. Ches knows how to win under difficult circumstances but I just don't see the USNA being the fit.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2022 22:29:09 GMT -5
Cincy, Houston and UCF are all leaving the AAC for the Big 12 next year too...that league will lose a lot of its star power, Sonething else that makes that job less appealing...just sayin"
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Post by gks on Dec 11, 2022 22:40:47 GMT -5
The rationales trying to say Navy is a crappy job are absolutely amazing.
It's actually funny.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2022 22:41:36 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2022 22:41:48 GMT -5
Cincy, Houston and UCF are all leaving the AAC for the Big 12 next year too...that league will lose a lot of its star power, Sonething else that makes that job less appealing...just sayin" You go 11-2 at Navy, it sets you up better for a big time FBS job over going 12-1 in the FCS. Google Bob Chesney right now and see the news coverage of his name. There is minimal national buzz of his work and this is the day after his team lost in the Quarterfinals. If he beats Army, that will get a much bigger buzz. This is the only national article I found www.si.com/college/2022/11/11/fcs-to-fbs-coaching-jumps-deion-sanders-bob-chesney
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Post by deep Purple on Dec 11, 2022 22:44:52 GMT -5
There's a lot of fbs programs that pay in that neighborhood and are much better and easier to rebuild. For example, the Syracuse job should be open within the next year or two. There's no way they're going to stay with Babers. CBC has built a juggernaut and has time on his side. He can be selective for the right job.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 11, 2022 22:47:39 GMT -5
Coaching at the academies is a rather nuanced operation and football head coach particularly so. I’m not aware of any Chesney connections to the military (service, assistant coaching, or otherwise) so I don’t see him heading to Navy as head coach at this point in his career. Yes, he'll leave, this year or next, most likely. The specifics are just uninformed sportswriter bullcrap. Had several years of that with Duffner, as I recall. And, yes, I think Navy is a desirable job for a FCS football coach.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2022 23:00:47 GMT -5
The Ken Niumatalolo era at Navy is over.
The academy announced Sunday that Niumatalolo would not return as head coach, one day after an overtime loss to Army. Niumatalolo was the winningest coach in school history, with a 109-83 record since the end of the 2007 season. But Navy finished the season with four or fewer wins four times in the past five years and three seasons in a row.
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The Midshipmen are also 2-5 in the last seven matchups with Army and 2-5 against Air Force in the same span. A year ago, after an early loss to Air Force, athletic director Chet Gladchuk fired offensive coordinator Ivin Jasper, long expected to be Niumatalolo’s replacement. Niumatalolo eventually talked Gladchuk into letting Jasper stay on staff as quarterbacks coach. This year’s Navy team improved, with a win against UCF and a near comeback against Notre Dame, but Gladchuk has clearly not been happy with the general direction of the program.
“Our sincerest gratitude to Coach Ken for what has been a distinguished and impactful legacy at the Naval Academy,” Gladchuk said in a release. “Navy football flourished for many years under his leadership. He will forever be remembered for the influence he has had on the lives of those who played for him. We all have great respect and appreciation for his 25 years of service to the Academy. … The Naval Academy will now move forward with continued high ambitions and embrace a new era of reaffirmed expectations for Navy football and our midshipmen.”
Service academy jobs do not open often. Navy has had two head coaches since 2002, and Charlie Weatherbie was the last Navy head coach fired, in 2001. Air Force head coach Troy Calhoun has been in charge since 2007, and Army’s Jeff Monken took over before the 2014 season.
So how good is the Navy job? What names could get in the mix? Here are the factors to keep in mind.
Navy has had three consecutive seasons of four wins or fewer. (Danny Wild / USA Today) You can win at Navy and at the service academies
The success of Navy, Army and Air Force over the past two decades is one of the most remarkable situations in all of sports. They’re the only programs in the Football Bowl Subdivision whose players don’t arrive with plans to reach the NFL. The athletes are there for future military service and for the education. While the rosters and coaching staffs are larger than allowed elsewhere, the academies are not signing players over Power 5 schools. They always rank at the bottom of the country in recruiting rankings.
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And yet, Navy won at least eight games 13 times in 14 seasons from 2003 to ’16. Army won at least eight games five times in six years from 2016 to ’21, and Air Force has won at least eight games nine times under Calhoun, including 19 wins over the past two seasons.
It is typically difficult for all three service academies to win at the same time, as they recruit the same pool of players. It’s not a coincidence that Navy’s decline has coincided with Army’s rise. This year’s Navy team was one of its youngest ever and went .500 in American Athletic Conference play.
That’s something to build on, but the next coach has to make more recruiting gains against Army and Air Force.
There are more and more modern limitations at service academies
The transfer portal is essentially a one-way street here. With relaxed NCAA transfer rules, players can leave Navy without having to sit out a year.
But in the reverse, Navy and service academies generally do not add transfers, due to the service requirements. There is no graduate school to add veteran players. Additionally, athletes cannot receive name, image and likeness deals. It’s technically illegal, as service academy players are considered government employees. Niumatalolo pointed to those concerns in the ever-changing world of college football.
“Now people can build their teams through the portal and do well. We can’t,” Niumatalolo told The Athletic in the summer. “We have to build a team. We have to build together. … That’s probably the one detriment to us. The league’s gotten better. I’m always in communication with our athletic director and our administration to make sure we’re competitive. We’re never going to be able to go in the transfer portal. We can’t use NIL. Those are the discussions I have to have as head coach.”
The academies also cannot redshirt players, though Navy coaches, fans and officials often derided Army and Air Force for finding loopholes with “turnbacks,” which can save eligibility. Navy has not used those, putting it at an experience disadvantage.
Will Navy stick with the triple-option background?
Service academies play this style of offense because it’s the great equalizer. When teams are smaller on the offensive and defensive lines, they have to find different ways to move the ball.
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The triple-option offense is unique for opponents to prepare for, it shortens the games with fewer possessions and it can take away an opponent’s advantage in open space.
But the NCAA continues to make more rules limiting cut blocks, to the detriment of triple-option teams. It’s getting harder and harder to move the ball legally. Georgia Southern, a longtime triple-option team, moved away from that history in hiring Clay Helton last year, but the Eagles have a higher ceiling for recruiting.
Navy football has changed since joining a conference
The Midshipmen joined the AAC in 2015 after more than a century of independence. They played in the 2016 AAC title game, but the program has declined since. Has the rest of the conference picked up on what Navy does, limiting its uniqueness? That’s what some people around the league think.
Navy has one winning conference record in the past six years. Army, meanwhile, remains an independent and plays two FCS games each year. But Air Force has been in a conference since 1980 and hasn’t fallen off.
The AAC will also reshape in 2023. UCF, Cincinnati and Houston are gone, while Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB and UTSA will join the conference. Including Navy, seven of the 14 teams in the conference will have a new head coach.
So what names could get in the mix?
Kennesaw State head coach Brian Bohannon coached at Navy alongside Niumatalolo from 2002 to ’07, before following Paul Johnson to Georgia Tech. Bohannon became Kennesaw State’s first head coach and has a 68-24 record in eight seasons, with five consecutive FCS top-15 finishes from 2017 to ’21. He has a deep background with the triple-option offense, and he has experience at Navy. But Kennesaw State is moving up to FBS and Conference USA in 2024. Would he want to leave for what could be a tougher job?
Army offensive coordinator Brent Davis has played an integral role in the Black Knights’ rise. Army had reached one bowl in seven years before Davis and Monken arrived, and the program has reached five bowls in the past seven years. Davis has a long history with the triple-option offense from his time at Army and Georgia Southern before that.
Air Force offensive coordinator Mike Thiessen has played and coached at Air Force for his entire career, on the staff since 2007. The Falcons are 33-11 over the past four seasons, leading the nation in rushing yards per game over the past three. Opponents have lauded Air Force’s ability to mix up its offense, using option tendencies but also throwing in typical running game plays to surprise a defense. Thiessen was in the mix for the Georgia Southern job last year and has impressed many people in the industry.
Defensive coordinator Brian Newberry will serve as interim head coach but could also be an internal option. Navy’s defense made massive strides when Newberry arrived in 2019, improving from the bottom of the country to the top 40 in many key statistics. This year’s defense again took a step forward. Navy held Notre Dame to 16 total yards in the second half as the Midshipmen nearly made a miraculous comeback. The Midshipmen also held Army to 153 total yards through regulation and two overtimes. Before Navy, Newberry worked as Kennesaw State’s defensive coordinator under Bohannon. Navy offensive line coach Ashley Ingram has been with the program for 15 years, playing a key role in the highs under Niumatalolo. Ingram is also in the mix for the head coaching job at The Citadel. The temporary firing of QBs coach Ivin Jasper last year would seem to make his candidacy unlikely.
Army defensive coordinator Nate Woody has been with the Black Knights since 2020, when his defense finished 17th nationally in yards per play allowed. He would bring experience from outside the service academies, having coached at Michigan, Georgia Tech, Appalachian State and Wofford.
This story will be updated.
(Photo of Navy cornerback Mbiti Williams Jr. and Army wide receiver Isaiah Alston: Danny Wild / USA Today)
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 11, 2022 23:04:08 GMT -5
Highly recommend a subscription to The Athletic. Candidates they listed: -Brian Bohanon - Kennesaw St HC, assistant under Paul Johnson at Navy, triple option background -Brent Davis - Army OC -Mike Theissen - Air Force OC -Brian Newberry - Navy DC -Nate Woody - Army DC Notice a theme here? Most important paragraph of the article, and why I don’t think this job makes sense for Chesney unless he wants to cash out all of his chips now (which I don’t think he does). There are more and more modern limitations at service academies
The transfer portal is essentially a one-way street here. With relaxed NCAA transfer rules, players can leave Navy without having to sit out a year.
But in the reverse, Navy and service academies generally do not add transfers, due to the service requirements. There is no graduate school to add veteran players. Additionally, athletes cannot receive name, image and likeness deals. It’s technically illegal, as service academy players are considered government employees. Niumatalolo pointed to those concerns in the ever-changing world of college football.
“Now people can build their teams through the portal and do well. We can’t,” Niumatalolo told The Athletic in the summer. “We have to build a team. We have to build together. … That’s probably the one detriment to us. The league’s gotten better. I’m always in communication with our athletic director and our administration to make sure we’re competitive. We’re never going to be able to go in the transfer portal. We can’t use NIL. Those are the discussions I have to have as head coach.”
The academies also cannot redshirt players, though Navy coaches, fans and officials often derided Army and Air Force for finding loopholes with “turnbacks,” which can save eligibility. Navy has not used those, putting it at an experience disadvantage.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2022 23:04:13 GMT -5
The rationales trying to say Navy is a crappy job are absolutely amazing. It's actually funny. It is a great job for the right person if it is at the right time in the life of that coach Amazed how the English language is interpreted these days
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Post by td128 on Dec 12, 2022 5:16:09 GMT -5
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Post by joutsHC77 on Dec 12, 2022 7:15:05 GMT -5
You nailed it td!
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 12, 2022 7:30:50 GMT -5
Cincy, Houston and UCF are all leaving the AAC for the Big 12 next year too...that league will lose a lot of its star power, Sonething else that makes that job less appealing...just sayin" You go 11-2 at Navy, it sets you up better for a big time FBS job over going 12-1 in the FCS. Google Bob Chesney right now and see the news coverage of his name. There is minimal national buzz of his work and this is the day after his team lost in the Quarterfinals. If he beats Army, that will get a much bigger buzz. This is the only national article I found www.si.com/college/2022/11/11/fcs-to-fbs-coaching-jumps-deion-sanders-bob-chesneyGoogle “Whitinsville Pre-K soccer” and see Bfoleys pictures.
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Post by trimster on Dec 12, 2022 8:02:25 GMT -5
Speaking of FCS coaches moving to FBS, the Sacramento State Coach moved to Stanford as the head man, a couple of days ago.
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