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Post by longsuffering on May 8, 2023 17:59:25 GMT -5
Few leagues allow multiple teams to go from zero to sixty as fast as the PL does. With either five or six OOC games, including one or two FBS games if desired each season, several teams simultaneously climbing the rankings should be less constrained by intraleague competition than in other leagues.
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Post by purplehaze on May 8, 2023 18:49:38 GMT -5
LS, nice concept but not going to happen with 60 scholarships / AI / no red-shirting (when injury fee) - get used to mediocrity in the PL
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Post by sader1970 on May 8, 2023 19:21:28 GMT -5
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 8, 2023 20:48:24 GMT -5
Few leagues allow multiple teams to go from zero to sixty as fast as the PL does. With either five or six OOC games, including one or two FBS games if desired each season, several teams simultaneously climbing the rankings should be less constrained by intraleague competition than in other leagues. Except that's exactly what is not happening. The standings have become ossified among four schools that have combined for 15 of the last 16 championships. And what's left: Bucknell: 16-29 in PL play since 2015 Lafayette: 15-30 Georgetown: 9-33 (7-7 vs Bucknell and Lafayette, 2-26 vs. everyone else)
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Post by longsuffering on May 8, 2023 21:14:59 GMT -5
Few leagues allow multiple teams to go from zero to sixty as fast as the PL does. With either five or six OOC games, including one or two FBS games if desired each season, several teams simultaneously climbing the rankings should be less constrained by intraleague competition than in other leagues. Except that's exactly what is not happening. The standings have become ossified among four schools that have combined for 15 of the last 16 championships. And what's left: Bucknell: 16-29 in PL play since 2015 Lafayette: 15-30 Georgetown: 9-33 (7-7 vs Bucknell and Lafayette, 2-26 vs. everyone else) Do you think at GU it is just hard for the administration to get excited by FCS football after getting to the mountain top in basketball?
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 8, 2023 21:40:48 GMT -5
Do you think at GU it is just hard for the administration to get excited by FCS football after getting to the mountain top in basketball? The mountain top was 40 years ago--that's not the issue. The PL was sold to Georgetown by former coach Bob Benson circa 2000 as a community builder, a rivalry builder, of crisp fall afternoons with Ivy schools and like-minded opponents in league play. Actually, very little of that ever came to pass. Attendance is at or less what it was in the MAAC days--locals don't show. Who's coming to see Sacred Heart and Stonehill? There are no rivalries - none - among the students. Holy Cross, Fordham, et al. are no longer like-minded opponents. Georgetown has lost 17 of its last 20 and hasn't won a home game since 2019. And what would 60 scholarships buy it? It would just be another Bucknell. For as long as it is held to a 210-213 Academic Index, without redshirts or any flexibility on transfers, without attracting interest from any sort of locally or regionally relevant opponents, there is no way it can move forward. Eight seasons with Kevin Kelly earned Georgetown a grand total of 23 wins. Now, eight seasons with Rob Sgarlata has a total of...24. Maybe it's not the coaching. And many of the same issues exist at Bucknell.
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Post by hcpride on May 9, 2023 5:26:59 GMT -5
Few leagues allow multiple teams to go from zero to sixty as fast as the PL does. With either five or six OOC games, including one or two FBS games if desired each season, several teams simultaneously climbing the rankings should be less constrained by intraleague competition than in other leagues. Except that's exactly what is not happening. The standings have become ossified among four schools that have combined for 15 of the last 16 championships. And what's left: Bucknell: 16-29 in PL play since 2015 Lafayette: 15-30 Georgetown: 9-33 (7-7 vs Bucknell and Lafayette, 2-26 vs. everyone else)An often overlooked point regarding the lower portion of the PL football league is that when those juggernauts play each other, somebody’s got to win. So, as bad as those win totals are, they don’t illustrate the futility. (We see the same phenomenon when eyeballing PL baseball W-L records).
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Post by mm67 on May 9, 2023 5:40:52 GMT -5
Would a league wide common AI help resolve competitive issues?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 9, 2023 6:38:08 GMT -5
Would a league wide common AI help resolve competitive issues? Would help Georgetown a little bit.
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Post by mm67 on May 9, 2023 11:37:40 GMT -5
Is there any correlation with PL football standings & AI for each school from highest AI at the bottom up to lowest at the top of the league?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 9, 2023 12:22:54 GMT -5
Is there any correlation with PL football standings & AI for each school from highest AI at the bottom up to lowest at the top of the league? I know a lot more about the history of PL football than I do academic rankings but I'd opine that the highest AI to the lowest would look like something like this in football: 1) Georgetown 2) Colgate 3) Bucknell 4) Holy Cross 5) Lehigh 6) Fordham 7) Lafayette And something like this in other sports: 1) Colgate => Army & Navy would obviously be 1 and 2 but I don't think they have to comply with AI given that all academy acceptances must receive a Congressional appointment. 2) Bucknell 3) Holy Cross 4) Lehigh 5) Boston University 6) Lafayette 7) American 8) Loyola
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Post by rgs318 on May 9, 2023 15:24:44 GMT -5
Might this thread take on a new title? There. has been almost no connection to Fordham's next QB for most it.
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Post by hcpride on May 9, 2023 16:28:20 GMT -5
Might this thread take on a new title? THdere. has been almost no connection to Fordham's next QB for most it. I'm still wondering if we would ever lure away a kid who signed a letter of intent to Fordham. I expect that sort of move from Harvard but would like to think we wouldn't do that sort of thing. Would Harvard pull that sort of move on a fellow Ivy?
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 9, 2023 17:49:06 GMT -5
Only reason for HC to play Harvard is geographical proximity as one of three other FCS teams in Massachusetts. Otherwise, the bloom is off the rose, regarding the allure and prestige of playing them, IMHO.
The move to pull a player from Fordham, after he has signed a National Letter of Intent, reflects poorly on both parties. I wonder if Fordham has a legal case to pursue in this regard. However, the lightly penalty would only be a one year sit out, which probably had already been planned by Harvard and the player.
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Post by longsuffering on May 9, 2023 18:16:00 GMT -5
Only reason for HC to play Harvard is geographical proximity as one of three other FCS teams in Massachusetts. Otherwise, the bloom is off the rose, regarding the allure and prestige of playing them, IMHO. The move to pull a player from Fordham, after he has signed a National Letter of Intent, reflects poorly on both parties. I wonder if Fordham has a legal case to pursue in this regard. However, the lightly penalty would only be a one year sit out, which probably had already been planned by Harvard and the player. Do you rate Harvard in this situation as worse, better or the same as a college who hires a coach who is currently under contract at another college? Was Coach Chesney under contract at Assumption when he was hired by Holy Cross? Was Coach Magarity under contract at UNH? Another question that arises is if the NCAA supports and facilitates transfers for freshman through seniors via the NCAA sponsored portal, why can't rising freshmen transfer?
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 9, 2023 20:40:10 GMT -5
Ethics is apparently not taught at Harvard, or the coaching staff never took a course while in college. While Coach Gilmore was at HC, a player signed a NLI with HC. Several months later, that same player decided he wanted to attend another school that was closer to home and in the CAA. The player seriously pursued not honoring his NLI. The other school, that has an outstanding academic reputation said no. That the NLI was signed with HC, and he could not attend as a freshman. Fortunately, the player and his family realized the value of attending HC and honored his commitment. That player was a solid starting contributor in 36 games including 24 starts. Was All-Patriot League Second Team.
After HC with the Covid exemption, that same player attended and played in a graduate year at the school that he originally was going renege his HC commitment.
The Harvard staff lacked integrity in this move. I would not shed a tear if after this move (I will refrain from using inappropriate language), the entire Patriot League dropped Harvard from future schedules.
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Post by hcpride on May 9, 2023 20:54:53 GMT -5
Ethics is apparently not taught at Harvard, or the coaching staff never took a course while in college. While Coach Gilmore was at HC, a player signed a NLI with HC. Several months later, that same player decided he wanted to attend another school that was closer to home and in the CAA. The player seriously pursued not honoring his NLI. The other school, that has an outstanding academic reputation said no. That the NLI was signed with HC, and he could not attend as a freshman. Fortunately, the player and his family realized the value of attending HC and honored his commitment. That player was a solid starting contributor in 36 games including 24 starts. Was All-Patriot League Second Team. After HC with the Covid exemption, that same player attended and played in a graduate year at the school that he originally was going renege his HC commitment. The Harvard staff lacked integrity in this move. I would not shed a tear if after this move (I will refrain from using inappropriate language), the entire Patriot League dropped Harvard from future schedules. I could be wrong but I don’t see Harvard pulling that bush league move on a fellow Ivy. But Fordham, a Catholic PL team, is fair game. Remind me why we’re playing Harvard.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 9, 2023 21:14:15 GMT -5
Same type of move that Derek Bok pulled on JEB, forty years ago. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice……
Time for Patriot League Schools to recognize the weasel in the house. They travel marginally well with their fan base to Worcester, charge an expensive ticket and high price for parking in Cambridge, and what was once a treat with a game in Boston at the beginning of the football season, no longer has the luster it once did.
Drop them from future schedules.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 9, 2023 21:40:18 GMT -5
Harvard is a long time rival and usually a formidable foe. As well, it’s especially enjoyable when we win. I hope we play Harvard yearly.
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Post by longsuffering on May 9, 2023 21:40:31 GMT -5
Same type of move that Derek Bok pulled on JEB, forty years ago. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice…… Time for Patriot League Schools to recognize the weasel in the house. They travel marginally well with their fan base to Worcester, charge an expensive ticket and high price for parking in Cambridge, and what was once a treat with a game in Boston at the beginning of the football season, no longer has the luster it once did. Drop them from future schedules. Keep Harvard and the other three New England Ivies and play a couple per year. What is the difference with this student choosing Harvard after signing an NLI with Fordham and Avery Labarberra choosing Holy Cross after committing to Canisius? (Coaching change at Canisius I believe) I understand Ivy envy, but not Ivy resentment. PL and IL schools are all striving for excellence as national universities or colleges. The sample size is too large for PL schools to be doing so honorably and IL schools to be doing so dishonerably. I think all eighteen schools average about the same amount of honor across the board.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 9, 2023 22:08:41 GMT -5
Avery decided to not attend Canisius due to a coaching change. The new staff had every opportunity to re recruit her as a student athlete. That was not the case at Fordham with the head coach, as Coach Conlin remains employed by them. If the student was enamored with the previous Fordham offensive coordinator, he could have followed him to Old Dominion.
Dartmouth dropped HC several years ago, Brown very rarely plays HC due to their lack of success. That leaves only Harvard and Yale. From speaking to a former classmate of my daughter’s twenty years ago, who played football at Yale, they looked upon the HC game with a bit of disdain.
Not Ivy envy, but Ivy realization, as my Father worked for an Ivy institution. My first football game was at that Ivy League Stadium. Also I had two Aunts who graduated from that Ivy institution. That was then, this is now. The Patriot League did not exist, and HC was not seen as a worthy competitor. It was a scheduling of convenience. The only current PL schools that played against the Ivy League at that time, on a continuous basis was HC, Colgate and Lafayette.
Walk into the negotiations with eyes wide open, they are there to win at all costs.
ca·ve·at emp·tor
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2023 1:57:10 GMT -5
Avery decided to not attend Canisius due to a coaching change. The new staff had every opportunity to re recruit her as a student athlete. That was not the case at Fordham with the head coach, as Coach Conlin remains employed by them. If the student was enamored with the previous Fordham offensive coordinator, he could have followed him to Old Dominion. Dartmouth dropped HC several years ago, Brown very rarely plays HC due to their lack of success. That leaves only Harvard and Yale. From speaking to a former classmate of my daughter’s twenty years ago, who played football at Yale, they looked upon the HC game with a bit of disdain. Not Ivy envy, but Ivy realization, as my Father worked for an Ivy institution. My first football game was at that Ivy League Stadium. Also I had two Aunts who graduated from that Ivy institution. That was then, this is now. The Patriot League did not exist, and HC was not seen as a worthy competitor. It was a scheduling of convenience. The only current PL schools that played against the Ivy League at that time, on a continuous basis was HC, Colgate and Lafayette. Walk into the negotiations with eyes wide open, they are there to win at all costs. ca·ve·at emp·tor Factually they aren't there to win at all costs. They only play ten games, they don’t participate in the FCS tournament, they start practice and the season late, they don’t allow grad transfers or grad students to play, they don’t have non-medical red shirts, they have an AI, etc. I doubt Yale FB players look at the HC game with a bit of disdain anymore. It's their major chance to prove themselves against a national power.
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Post by hcpride on May 10, 2023 5:35:05 GMT -5
Avery decided to not attend Canisius due to a coaching change. The new staff had every opportunity to re recruit her as a student athlete. That was not the case at Fordham with the head coach, as Coach Conlin remains employed by them. If the student was enamored with the previous Fordham offensive coordinator, he could have followed him to Old Dominion. Dartmouth dropped HC several years ago, Brown very rarely plays HC due to their lack of success. That leaves only Harvard and Yale. From speaking to a former classmate of my daughter’s twenty years ago, who played football at Yale, they looked upon the HC game with a bit of disdain. Not Ivy envy, but Ivy realization, as my Father worked for an Ivy institution. My first football game was at that Ivy League Stadium. Also I had two Aunts who graduated from that Ivy institution. That was then, this is now. The Patriot League did not exist, and HC was not seen as a worthy competitor. It was a scheduling of convenience. The only current PL schools that played against the Ivy League at that time, on a continuous basis was HC, Colgate and Lafayette. Walk into the negotiations with eyes wide open, they are there to win at all costs. ca·ve·at emp·tor Factually they aren't there to win at all costs. They only play ten games, they don’t participate in the FCS tournament, they start practice and the season late, they don’t allow grad transfers or grad students to play, they don’t have non-medical red shirts, they have an AI, etc. I doubt Yale FB players look at the HC game with a bit of disdain anymore. It's their major chance to prove themselves against a national power. Harvard’s poach move against Fordham speaks volumes. Surely you’re not defending it. (It is also true that Harvard and the rest of Ivy football have a whole lot of differences with other FCS football programs.)
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2023 6:14:08 GMT -5
Factually they aren't there to win at all costs. They only play ten games, they don’t participate in the FCS tournament, they start practice and the season late, they don’t allow grad transfers or grad students to play, they don’t have non-medical red shirts, they have an AI, etc. I doubt Yale FB players look at the HC game with a bit of disdain anymore. It's their major chance to prove themselves against a national power. Harvard’s poach move against Fordham speaks volumes. Surely you’re not defending it. I don't understand how they can poach, I thought the portal means the student athlete controls his/her own college attendance now, this is endorsed by the NCAA and it's members and the NCAA facilitates transfers. Before a student enrolls at a college and anytime through graduation he is allowed to change his mind and enroll elsewhere. The first thing that came to my mind is the possibility the kid was waitlisted at Harvard and when he got accepted, he logically upgraded to the higher academically ranked school. He hasn't even graduated high school yet has he? I think he should be able to go to the school of his choice and has the right to turn down a $300,000 scholarship from Fordham or any other college anytime he wants. If he has to sit a year, fine, it's still his choice. I also don't think Tim Murphy or any other coach has the right to keep him off a team because he accepted a scholarship at another school but didn't use it. So I don't see any villains who need to be shunned by the Holy Cross schedule makers. It's the student athlete's choice where he attends college and we shouldn't be trying to jump into that decision and start assessing blame or deciding one school is morally superior to another, imo.
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Post by gks on May 10, 2023 6:17:16 GMT -5
Many look on this board look at Harvard the way a middle schooler looks at the prom queen. Have never understood the fascination with them on the football field.
Dump them, and the rest of the Ivies, and move on to a better schedule.
*I'll entertain Yale as long as Tony Reno is there.
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