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Post by rgs318 on Dec 15, 2016 12:11:29 GMT -5
nearly beat = lost Just to remain balanced
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 15, 2016 12:16:15 GMT -5
nearly beat = lost Just to remain balanced That is correct. Just for the record, is nearly beat > or < losing by 40?
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 15, 2016 12:17:33 GMT -5
They are equal in the sense that each is a loss. Loss = loss. No?
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Post by HC1843 on Dec 15, 2016 12:25:54 GMT -5
Few expect immediate success. What troubles me is this year's recruiting class when compared to the guns of the league, Bucknell, Lehigh and BU. Are we slipping to second tier status? I hope not. Why don't we play a PL game or two before countenancing such irrational fears.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 15, 2016 20:27:19 GMT -5
Bill Carmody is an excellent coach, but he's no Ralph Willard in my opinion. Carmody had a losing season last year and a losing record so far this year. Next year looks tough because of no seniors or rising sophs of note.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 15, 2016 21:08:08 GMT -5
RW before coming to HC--144-124 CBC pre-HC--284-245 HC--19-26( 1 PLC) Now if CBC can match RW's record at HC, 174-103,(first season +10 games of second season= 17-21, eventual PLC) we will be in fine shape. pretty similar records
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 15, 2016 21:13:39 GMT -5
I'm thinking maybe it's too early to make the final judgment on HC coaching superiority between Coach Carmody and Coach Willard.........
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Post by lou on Dec 15, 2016 21:38:51 GMT -5
Very happy we had classmate Willard for 10 years, and elated that we hired Carmody last year, love what he is doing
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 16, 2016 8:31:56 GMT -5
Ditto.
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Post by ericobeyyourthirst on Dec 16, 2016 13:53:47 GMT -5
Bill Carmody is an excellent coach, but he's no Ralph Willard in my opinion. Carmody had a losing season last year and a losing record so far this year. Next year looks tough because of no seniors or rising sophs of note. Fair to evaluate how this year goes and then worry about next year?
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Post by lou on Dec 16, 2016 14:17:24 GMT -5
Bill Carmody is an excellent coach, but he's no Ralph Willard in my opinion. Carmody had a losing season last year and a losing record so far this year. Next year looks tough because of no seniors or rising sophs of note. Right, but Carmody was 4-0 in the Patriot League tournament, beat first ever #1 seed to lose in the quaterfinals, and first NCAA win since '53 for HC ... really not that bad when you think about it
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 16, 2016 14:22:52 GMT -5
Bill Carmody is an excellent coach, but he's no Ralph Willard in my opinion. Carmody had a losing season last year and a losing record so far this year. Next year looks tough because of no seniors or rising sophs of note. Fair enough to have that opinion. CBC did have a losing regular season last year and does so far this year. However, it might be fair to also mention that at HC he was also undefeated in PL tournament games (4-0) and at .500 in the NCAA (1-1). Leaving that out can slant any conclusions somewhat in a totally negative direction. If you are referring to this year's sophs, I see KC (All-PL Rookie team last season) as a sophomore of note and PB moving in that direction. JF clearly has his moments with some spectacular blocks and shows promise of better things to come. MZ also has a promising upside and will certainly have a chance to show what he can do next year. We'll see how that works out next season. If you mean the current frosh, still plenty of time to see what they can produce down the road with most of their freshman season yet to be played.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 16, 2016 15:48:35 GMT -5
PP, can you quantify the value of the basketball team appearances on CBS TV and the NCAA games we played? There are endless references in those exposures of high academics at HC/Patriot league. Much of the country perhaps had its first exposure to hc in those ncaa games. I agree with you hockey is a waste of money in spreading the HC brand.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 16, 2016 18:22:51 GMT -5
Last year imo was a tale of 2 seasons: the PL regular season (5-13), and the rest of the season (10-7); pretty much the same size samples. That's why I bristle when I hear "they got lucky".
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Post by lou on Dec 16, 2016 19:33:14 GMT -5
not sure I saw this quote before today...
"You don't see that too often, that guys are able to come together with a new coach," Malachi Alexander said [after beating Lehigh]. "That speaks to us and the faith we have in Coach that we were able to pull it off."
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 16, 2016 20:49:11 GMT -5
Bill Carmody is an excellent coach, but he's no Ralph Willard in my opinion. Carmody had a losing season last year and a losing record so far this year. Next year looks tough because of no seniors or rising sophs of note. Right, but Carmody was 4-0 in the Patriot League tournament, beat first ever #1 seed to lose in the quaterfinals, and first NCAA win since '53 for HC ... really not that bad when you think about it Passing out credit for an NCAA win that we got only because our season was so poor that we were given one of the four worst seeds in the tournament, and a matchup against a team ranked 229th in the country is pretty silly. The last four times we were in the tournament we played teams ranked at least 210 spots higher. Acting like it's our greatest NCAA accomplishment since '53 insinuates that earning a higher seed to play exponentially better teams teams and losing is somehow less of an accomplishment than beating a MEAC team, which is pretty crazy logic.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 16, 2016 20:50:14 GMT -5
Last year imo was a tale of 2 seasons: the PL regular season (5-13), and the rest of the season (10-7); pretty much the same size samples. That's why I bristle when I hear "they got lucky". That's one very interesting way to break down a season.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 16, 2016 21:05:01 GMT -5
Right, but Carmody was 4-0 in the Patriot League tournament, beat first ever #1 seed to lose in the quaterfinals, and first NCAA win since '53 for HC ... really not that bad when you think about it Passing out credit for an NCAA win that we got only because our season was so poor that we were given one of the four worst seeds in the tournament, and a matchup against a team ranked 229th in the country is pretty silly. The last four times we were in the tournament we played teams ranked at least 210 spots higher. Acting like it's our greatest NCAA accomplishment since '53 insinuates that earning a higher seed to play exponentially better teams teams and losing is somehow less of an accomplishment than beating a MEAC team, which is pretty crazy logic. Please explain how a loss is more of an accomplishment than a win
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Post by lou on Dec 16, 2016 21:16:35 GMT -5
Right, but Carmody was 4-0 in the Patriot League tournament, beat first ever #1 seed to lose in the quaterfinals, and first NCAA win since '53 for HC ... really not that bad when you think about it Passing out credit for an NCAA win that we got only because our season was so poor that we were given one of the four worst seeds in the tournament, and a matchup against a team ranked 229th in the country is pretty silly. The last four times we were in the tournament we played teams ranked at least 210 spots higher. Acting like it's our greatest NCAA accomplishment since '53 insinuates that earning a higher seed to play exponentially better teams teams and losing is somehow less of an accomplishment than beating a MEAC team, which is pretty crazy logic. Spin it any way you wish ... I was content with the W in the First Four
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 16, 2016 21:27:53 GMT -5
Right, but Carmody was 4-0 in the Patriot League tournament, beat first ever #1 seed to lose in the quaterfinals, and first NCAA win since '53 for HC ... really not that bad when you think about it Passing out credit for an NCAA win that we got only because our season was so poor that we were given one of the four worst seeds in the tournament, and a matchup against a team ranked 229th in the country is pretty silly. The last four times we were in the tournament we played teams ranked at least 210 spots higher. Acting like it's our greatest NCAA accomplishment since '53 insinuates that earning a higher seed to play exponentially better teams teams and losing is somehow less of an accomplishment than beating a MEAC team, which is pretty crazy logic. Your bias is showing. 1. An NCAA win is an NCAA win - something RW never got at HC as good a coach as he was. IMHO, there is nothing "silly" about feeling good for the team. They had to play - and win - four straight away games to get that match-up. They were the closest seed ever to be a the number 1 seed in the PL tournament. Is it "silly"to celebrate that? 2. A win is better than a loss...even a loss to a higher ranked team (like Oregon, for example). Any win is an accomplishment...nothing "crazy" about that. Well, nothing crazy unless it does not agree with your opinion. I believe that my points were no more silly or crazy than someone trying to sum up the championship year by stating only the regular season stats and leaving out the biggest accomplishment of the season. Why does citing them seem to get you so worked up? PS: The team dd not get their win because they had a poor season. They got it by outscoring and outplaying their favored opponent.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 16, 2016 23:53:04 GMT -5
The idea that "bias" means seeing the difference between the PIG, where 16 seeds are usually matched up against teams well into the 200s, and the real 1st round of the tournament, where lower seeds play the top teams in the country, is quite laughable.
The idea that beating SOUTHERN (we talkin bout Southern, man) is a bigger accomplishment than the way we played against Kentucky, Kansas, Marquette, and Southern Illinois is just insanity.
I really don't understand how anyone would rather win the PIG and get blown out by 40 in the 1st round than be a couple minutes away from knocking off a giant.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 17, 2016 0:20:22 GMT -5
The idea that "bias" means seeing the difference between the PIG, where 16 seeds are usually matched up against teams well into the 200s, and the real 1st round of the tournament, where lower seeds play the top teams in the country, is quite laughable. The idea that beating SOUTHERN (we talkin bout Southern, man) is a bigger accomplishment than the way we played against Kentucky, Kansas, Marquette, and Southern Illinois is just insanity. I really don't understand how anyone would rather win the PIG and get blown out by 40 in the 1st round than be a couple minutes away from knocking off a giant.It's those crazy people who like to win games
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 17, 2016 6:35:39 GMT -5
I can see validity in both arguments. Beating Southern in a First Four game is not equivalent to beating Kentucky, Kansas or Marquette. But, as close as we came in those games, they were not wins, just close losses. "Moral victories" that Ralph so disdained.
Losing to Oregon by 40+ points is an indicator of how much further this program needs to go. I have little doubt that those Willard teams would not have lost by 40 to Oregon.
But take nothing away from last year's team. What they accomplished was unprecedented in the history of the Patriot League and their accomplishments should not be diminished.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 17, 2016 9:24:45 GMT -5
Come on, guys. You don't understand Caro's argument? I know I felt more satisfaction with nearly beating Marquette than beating Southern and getting walloped by Oregon. Technically speaking, we have an NCAA Tournament win under our belts, but do we really? Does a win in the first four mean as much as a win in the Round of 64 and beyond? Not equal in my mind.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 17, 2016 9:28:18 GMT -5
Come on, guys. You don't understand Caro's argument? I know I felt more satisfaction with nearly beating Marquette than beating Southern and getting walloped by Oregon. Technically speaking, we have an NCAA Tournament win under our belts, but do we really? Does a win in the first four mean as much as a win in the Round of 64 and beyond? Not equal in my mind. No it doesn't but then again we have not had a win in the Round of 64 in generations. I know I felt much happier after beating Southern than I did after losing to UK, Marquette, Kansas, So Ill
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