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Post by hcpride on Dec 23, 2023 13:04:30 GMT -5
Duffner’s teams were loaded with talent. I would have loved to see those teams play a schedule from the 60’s or 70’s. I think they would have done well. Some like to harp on Duffner for having scholarship teams playing non-scholarship then Colonial League schools but his teams also beat Army twice and many other scholarship teams then: UMass, UConn, W&M etc during his tenure. In the context of contrasting his amazing winning percentage to the winning percentages of other excellent HC coaches (specifically Carter and Chesney] it does have some relevance.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 23, 2023 15:23:18 GMT -5
A Holy Cross football scholarship outweighed a Yankee Conference football scholarship for a majority of families who had the opportunity to choose back in that time period I would guess. Now, I don't know. UConn and UMASS are FBS. URI, UNH and Maine are CAA. BU, NU and UVM dropped football. Not sure which years BU and NU were in the YC but think one or both had a cup of coffee in that league.
I'll give a rare tip of the fedora to the "PL sucks" chorus on this subject. HC FB definitely fell back in the PL compared to schools we dominated under Duffner. Chesney brought us back and maybe Curran can put us further ahead. Maybe 2023 Lafayette is a sign the PL has some life left in it.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 23, 2023 15:33:52 GMT -5
Re: Duffner.
From an email I sent to two former HC football players on whether Chesney was the best coach ever.
"In 1987, Duffner's second season, the team went 11-0, beating Army West Point by 10, Dartmouth by 39, Brown by 41, UMass by 44, Harvard by 35, William and Mary by 33, and Villanova also by 33. That team defeated four schools who are now members of the PL by an average of 34 points.
"In 1987, HC and BC had one common opponent: Army, BC beat Army by 5 at Chestnut Hill.
"No Chesney team ever achieved that level of dominance."
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Post by hc1998 on Dec 23, 2023 16:14:15 GMT -5
Forget the sizable increase in compensation, which can't be ignored. Coaches are as or more competitive than the players they coach...they want to win, they want to improve, they want the next challenge. If our coach is complacent and is willing to settle at HC for the remainder of his career, I don't want him. I guarantee if he does well at JMU he will continue to move up, perhaps even quicker than he did from HC and I can only hope we are having the same conversation about Dan Curran in a few years. For people upset at BC leaving us, I also want to point out a suspicion I have...I have ZERO inside information on this and its just speculation, but I also suspect he saw what he had coming back this year and shut down any interest anybody showed in him last year. His stock was as high, or higher, last year and we heard very little mention of him for any openings. I think he had a goal to come back, win a championship, then leave. He stayed committed to his top guys for an extra year. Fine opinions but HC just got beat at Polar Park by a coach who not only is willing to settle at his FCS school, he took a pay cut at an FBS school to get there. Holy Cross is that special a place for an excellent coach to want to stay also. The current arrangement of experiencing a new coach might be more interesting, I'll give you that. Poor comparison...yes Harvard beat us this year, but we passed them in stature about the time Chesney came in. I think at this point nobody here would settle for aspiring to be Harvard on the gridiron
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 23, 2023 17:01:08 GMT -5
Fine opinions but HC just got beat at Polar Park by a coach who not only is willing to settle at his FCS school, he took a pay cut at an FBS school to get there. Holy Cross is that special a place for an excellent coach to want to stay also. The current arrangement of experiencing a new coach might be more interesting, I'll give you that. Poor comparison...yes Harvard beat us this year, but we passed them in stature about the time Chesney came in. I think at this point nobody here would settle for aspiring to be Harvard on the gridiron Yes, Sluka will have a longer NFL career than Ryan Fitzpatrick's 17 years and have more than Fitz Magic's 7 kids, too.🙂 I don't want to give up the playoffs or the eleventh/twelfth regular season game or an annual game or two against FBS opponents. Other than that Harvard has a heck of a football program with a heck of a head coach. Their scholarship equivalent system of financial aid and the prestige of their degree will always make them a strong recruiting school. If they find another talented coach to succeed Murphy I forsee Holy Cross and Harvard having a very competitive series going forward for as far as the eye can see. I hope we keep them on the schedule indefinitely. It's Murphy 1, Curran 0 after a very competitive Harvard-Merrimack game. Let's tie that up at 1-1 for Coach Curran in 2024.
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Post by hc1998 on Dec 23, 2023 19:40:22 GMT -5
I'm talking about the current status of HC football vs. the current status of Harvard football...who cares about Fitz Magic, he is irrelevant to the point I was making as he was recruited to Harvard over 20 years ago...which is that we should want a coach that can and will move up.
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Post by 78purple on Dec 23, 2023 20:00:03 GMT -5
Re: Duffner. From an email I sent to two former HC football players on whether Chesney was the best coach ever. "In 1987, Duffner's second season, the team went 11-0, beating Army West Point by 10, Dartmouth by 39, Brown by 41, UMass by 44, Harvard by 35, William and Mary by 33, and Villanova also by 33. That team defeated four schools who are now members of the PL by an average of 34 points. "In 1987, HC and BC had one common opponent: Army, BC beat Army by 5 at Chestnut Hill. "No Chesney team ever achieved that level of dominance." Thank you....Game, set, and match, and as stated earlier, I love Ches
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 23, 2023 20:10:01 GMT -5
I'm talking about the current status of HC football vs. the current status of Harvard football...who cares about Fitz Magic, he is irrelevant to the point I was making as he was recruited to Harvard over 20 years ago...which is that we should want a coach that can and will move up. Chesney went 2-3 against Harvard and moved up. Curran is off to a good start to move up at 0-1 vs the Johnnies. I know what you are saying. I just think a long term successful coach who is synonymous with the program can be a good outcome for HC as well as HC being a way station for talented coaches to build their resume before moving on. Crusader Football could thrive either way. Coach Curran is from up the road in Chelmsford, maybe he is sincere when he says Holy Cross is the job for him.
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Post by southernsader on Dec 26, 2023 17:44:26 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 26, 2023 19:15:46 GMT -5
L/S, we may have a different "take" on this comment. I think that you think that he means he will retire from Holy Cross years from now. My read on that statement is he aspired to coach at Holy Cross and this is the perfect fit for him . . . . . now. Not necessarily 5-10 years from now if he is as successful as Chesney and has offers to go to higher paying/more "prestigious" jobs.
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Post by 78purple on Dec 26, 2023 20:13:15 GMT -5
Interesting....what's his Duke connection ??
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Post by midwestsader05 on Dec 26, 2023 21:31:29 GMT -5
I'm talking about the current status of HC football vs. the current status of Harvard football...who cares about Fitz Magic, he is irrelevant to the point I was making as he was recruited to Harvard over 20 years ago...which is that we should want a coach that can and will move up. Chesney went 2-3 against Harvard and moved up. Curran is off to a good start to move up at 0-1 vs the Johnnies. I know what you are saying. I just think a long term successful coach who is synonymous with the program can be a good outcome for HC as well as HC being a way station for talented coaches to build their resume before moving on. Crusader Football could thrive either way. Coach Curran is from up the road in Chelmsford, maybe he is sincere when he says Holy Cross is the job for him. Ches went 1-4 against Harvard. 4-1 v Yale.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 26, 2023 22:06:10 GMT -5
Chesney went 2-3 against Harvard and moved up. Curran is off to a good start to move up at 0-1 vs the Johnnies. I know what you are saying. I just think a long term successful coach who is synonymous with the program can be a good outcome for HC as well as HC being a way station for talented coaches to build their resume before moving on. Crusader Football could thrive either way. Coach Curran is from up the road in Chelmsford, maybe he is sincere when he says Holy Cross is the job for him. Ches went 1-4 against Harvard. 4-1 v Yale. Thanks. 5-5 during the best Crusader football era in decades. My point is it is easier to bemoan having to play the Ivies on a discussion board than it is to beat them on the field. And H&Y will come to Fitton on an equal home and away basis while the aspirational out of region FCS opponents may be less likely to.
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Post by fillfittonfield on Dec 26, 2023 22:20:40 GMT -5
I’m a bit surprised FHCBC is making Dean Kennedy his OC.
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Post by newadvisor on Dec 26, 2023 22:35:06 GMT -5
Interesting....what's his Duke connection ?? Looks like BC is putting together pretty impressive staff. Not only coaches on the field, but also strength and conditioning coach from Michigan State.. Hoping Coach Curran does same thing for our team.
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Post by HCFC45 on Dec 26, 2023 23:55:35 GMT -5
I’m a bit surprised FHCBC is making Dean Kennedy his OC. You took the words right out of my mouth!!! I was not impressed with the play calling this year... maybe there were reasons behind it that we did not know about... but certainly a big drop off from Coach Smith!!! Good luck to them!!!
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Post by hcpride on Dec 27, 2023 6:49:23 GMT -5
Interesting....what's his Duke connection ?? Duke head coach Mike Elko left for Texas A&M AND incoming Duke Head Coach Manny Diaz has wide connections in terms of gathering his own staff. I wouldn’t be surprised that some Duke coaches are (very) available.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 27, 2023 6:49:28 GMT -5
Didn’t want to be the one to post that. I know Smitty was high on Dean and might have pushed for him to be his successor but was very surprised he went to JMU with BC. At least in the OC role.
But, what do I know?🤷🏻♂️
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Post by midwestsader05 on Dec 27, 2023 7:05:08 GMT -5
I can’t wait to see the opinions of the offensive play calling next year coming off a “disappointed/unimpressive” 38 PPG and top 3 rushing attack in FCS in 2023. My guess is memories will be short to losing 7 starters including 4 All-Americans and nostalgic for the 2023 DK offense very quickly. You build offenses around personnel and our Offense ran through the greatest rushing FCS QB since Armanti Edwards of App State circa 2006-2009. Was it DK’s fault the two wide open TD passes we missed v Army or did he draw up good plays? The 5 TO’s v Harvard? The final drive v. BC? The 35 points we dropped on one of the best Defenses in FCS and still lost?
Not saying DK doesn’t come with some risk as a younger/greener FBS OC but what would be a good season offensively? 45 ppg? Lots of folks will need to check expectations for 2024 or are going to be sorely disappointed. 10-2? Really? Much like those that bought into the 2023 hype and thought we were going to be a legit Top 5 FCS team last season after losing SEVEN 5th year Senior Starters on Defense from 2022.
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Post by td128 on Dec 27, 2023 7:12:09 GMT -5
Let's make no mistake at all, if there was one guy and ONLY one guy that we could have and we would want to stay atop Mt. St. James post the departure of our former coach, WE GOT HIM.
CHRIS GRAUTSKI means a lot more to HCFB beyond his role as S/C Coach.
I state this with NO disrespect to any other individual coach all of whom I admire and respect but CG has the greatest impact of all on our Crusaders and in establishing and sustaining the positive culture and commitment to excellence.
Would I trade CG for a package of the other assistant coaches? NOPE. Our former head coach knows how important CG was to the entire operation. The fact that CG is staying in Worcester speaks volumes. MAJOR props to ADKH and our current head coach Dan Curran.
LET'S WIN!!
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Post by kaftan12 on Dec 27, 2023 8:55:55 GMT -5
I can’t wait to see the opinions of the offensive play calling next year coming off a “disappointed/unimpressive” 38 PPG and top 3 rushing attack in FCS in 2023. My guess is memories will be short to losing 7 starters including 4 All-Americans and nostalgic for the 2023 DK offense very quickly. You build offenses around personnel and our Offense ran through the greatest rushing FCS QB since Armanti Edwards of App State circa 2006-2009. Was it DK’s fault the two wide open TD passes we missed v Army or did he draw up good plays? The 5 TO’s v Harvard? The final drive v. BC? The 35 points we dropped on one of the best Defenses in FCS and still lost? Not saying DK doesn’t come with some risk as a younger/greener FBS OC but what would be a good season offensively? 45 ppg? Lots of folks will need to check expectations for 2024 or are going to be sorely disappointed. 10-2? Really? Much like those that bought into the 2023 hype and thought we were going to be a legit Top 5 FCS team last season after losing SEVEN 5th year Senior Starters on Defense from 2022. Three years in a row three different OC’s and all produced big PPG and offensive stats in the wins, which many were blowouts. Look to see similar this year with 7-8 wins easy off the bat. HC football has a solid roster and no reason to think they do not have a strong year in 2024 with whoever is calling the plays.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 27, 2023 9:39:00 GMT -5
I can’t wait to see the opinions of the offensive play calling next year coming off a “disappointed/unimpressive” 38 PPG and top 3 rushing attack in FCS in 2023. My guess is memories will be short to losing 7 starters including 4 All-Americans and nostalgic for the 2023 DK offense very quickly. You build offenses around personnel and our Offense ran through the greatest rushing FCS QB since Armanti Edwards of App State circa 2006-2009. Was it DK’s fault the two wide open TD passes we missed v Army or did he draw up good plays? The 5 TO’s v Harvard? The final drive v. BC? The 35 points we dropped on one of the best Defenses in FCS and still lost? Not saying DK doesn’t come with some risk as a younger/greener FBS OC but what would be a good season offensively? 45 ppg? Lots of folks will need to check expectations for 2024 or are going to be sorely disappointed. 10-2? Really? Much like those that bought into the 2023 hype and thought we were going to be a legit Top 5 FCS team last season after losing SEVEN 5th year Senior Starters on Defense from 2022. Throw into that mix a couple of things: 1. Special teams set the 2022 team up with bonus scores and tremendous field position, 2023's teams did not have that boost 2. The quarterback in 2023 had arm issues in a couple games and outright missed a couple more.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Dec 27, 2023 10:22:47 GMT -5
I can’t wait to see the opinions of the offensive play calling next year coming off a “disappointed/unimpressive” 38 PPG and top 3 rushing attack in FCS in 2023. My guess is memories will be short to losing 7 starters including 4 All-Americans and nostalgic for the 2023 DK offense very quickly. You build offenses around personnel and our Offense ran through the greatest rushing FCS QB since Armanti Edwards of App State circa 2006-2009. Was it DK’s fault the two wide open TD passes we missed v Army or did he draw up good plays? The 5 TO’s v Harvard? The final drive v. BC? The 35 points we dropped on one of the best Defenses in FCS and still lost? Not saying DK doesn’t come with some risk as a younger/greener FBS OC but what would be a good season offensively? 45 ppg? Lots of folks will need to check expectations for 2024 or are going to be sorely disappointed. 10-2? Really? Much like those that bought into the 2023 hype and thought we were going to be a legit Top 5 FCS team last season after losing SEVEN 5th year Senior Starters on Defense from 2022. Three years in a row three different OC’s and all produced big PPG and offensive stats in the wins, which many were blowouts. Look to see similar this year with 7-8 wins easy off the bat. HC football has a solid roster and no reason to think they do not have a strong year in 2024 with whoever is calling the plays. 7-8 is plausible, but would by no means consider them “easy“ wins. When looking at the offense from ‘21-‘23, what jumps out are the seven-eight players we won’t have next year as staples for those three consecutive seasons.
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Post by dharry13 on Dec 27, 2023 12:49:46 GMT -5
7 to 8 to me is most likely in fact. The PL is getting better and their 6 OOC games are TOUGH.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 27, 2023 19:06:20 GMT -5
L/S, we may have a different "take" on this comment. I think that you think that he means he will retire from Holy Cross years from now. My read on that statement is he aspired to coach at Holy Cross and this is the perfect fit for him . . . . . now. Not necessarily 5-10 years from now if he is as successful as Chesney and has offers to go to higher paying/more "prestigious" jobs. A fine read. But do you also think Holy Cross is a special enough FCS school for a skilled coach to build a Carm Cozza or Buddy Teevens type long term career through to retirement here? The type of arrangement where the coach becomes identified with the program and the program with the coach? That's what we would have had with Ralph Willard if he stayed until retirement.
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