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Post by rgs318 on Jan 15, 2017 10:58:31 GMT -5
HC travels to West Point on Wednesday to take on Army. Tip off is at 7:00pm. The Cadets are currently 8-10 (2-4 in the PL). In their last game they beat American (53-49).
Massey makes Army a 2 point favorite (63-61) on their home court with a 56% chance for the win.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 15, 2017 11:57:02 GMT -5
PROBABLE STARTERS: 30 Fox, Jordan...........G (So 6'1" 184) 13 ppg / 3 rpg / 33 mpg 25 Morrison, Luke.......F (Jr 6'6" 218) 9 ppg / 5 rpg / 19 mpg 15 Kessler, Jacob.....G/F (So 6'4" 190) 7 ppg / 4 rpg / 24 mpg 11 Funk, Tommy.........G (Fr 6'0" 181) 8 ppg / 4 rpg / 28 mpg 20 Hoffman, Mac........F (Sr 6'8" 213) 6 ppg / 7 rpg / 20 mpg
TOP SUBS: 52 Emezie, John.......G/F (So 6'6" 215) 10 ppg / 3 rpg / 23 mpg 14 Wilson, Matt.........F/C (Fr 6'9" 235) 12 ppg / 5 rpg / 18 mpg 03 Mammel, Scott.......G (Sr 5'11" 178) 4 ppg / 1 rpg / 14 mpg
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 15, 2017 12:01:31 GMT -5
This young Army team has 3 more ppg than opponents (75-72), 2 more rpg than opponents (38-36), but Army has 1 more turnover per game as well (14-13). They have 6 steals/game / opponents have 7. They have 2 blocks/game / opponents have 4.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 15, 2017 12:06:44 GMT -5
A good example of team whose freshmen are helping them win - Wilson and Funk combine for 20 ppg and 9 rpg, as well as 2.1 win shares.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 15, 2017 12:15:35 GMT -5
A good example of team whose freshmen are helping them win - Wilson and Funk combine for 20 ppg and 9 rpg, as well as 2.1 win shares. Good point. Their one starting freshman and one freshman sub have helped them to compile their losing record. This is also a team with only 2 seniors who get playing time (and 1 junior). This does show that having significant playing time for frosh can be a net liability. With the seniors we will lose to graduation, HC may have similar stats next year, and (hopefully) will show as good a record..of a better one.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 15, 2017 12:23:24 GMT -5
A good example of team whose freshmen are helping them win - Wilson and Funk combine for 20 ppg and 9 rpg, as well as 2.1 win shares. Good point. Their one starting freshman and one freshman sub have helped them to compile their losing record. This is also a team with only 2 seniors who get playing time (and 1 junior). This does show that having significant playing time for frosh can be a net liability. With the seniors we will lose to graduation, HC may have similar stats next year, and (hopefully) will show as good a record..of a better one. Army was wiped out by graduation, lost its coach, and was picked to finish last in the conference. While not a great team, Army is currently sitting at KenPom 201 - ahead of Holy Cross, and fourth overall in the conference in that regard. You seem to be saying that the only way freshmen can help a team "win" is if the team has a winning record. By this logic, Karl Charles didn't help us win last year, because we had a losing record. That view doesn't consider the possibility that such a team would be worse without the contributions of the freshmen - Army, Loyola, and American would all be decidedly worse this season without the contributions of their freshmen.
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Post by dadominate on Jan 15, 2017 12:28:39 GMT -5
A good example of team whose freshmen are helping them win - Wilson and Funk combine for 20 ppg and 9 rpg, as well as 2.1 win shares. yes, army is a good example of a bad team who is playing freshmen out of necessity having graduating five starting seniors last year. i'm not sure that you are, but are you suggesting relevance to this hc team with four senior starters this year? as rgs noted, i have no doubt that next year's hc freshmen will have similar increase in contribution to our win share out of a combination of 1.) necessity to replace lots of graduated minutes (as in army's case this year) and 2.) what looks to be a stronger freshman class, hopefully without the defection of our best freshman (as in our case this year). edit: i see that your response addressed some of these issues. i agree that win share is not only meaningful on a good team, but i also think that a player (no matter how good or bad) is bound to have decent contribution to win share simply due to playing lots of minutes. we've seen that with poorly performing players in our program.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 15, 2017 12:33:19 GMT -5
What I am saying is that a team's record does not correlate with an evaluation of a particular player's positive contributions, freshman or otherwise. I think most of us would agree that Karl Charles helped us win games last year, even though the team lost far more games than it won.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 15, 2017 12:37:43 GMT -5
Good point. Their one starting freshman and one freshman sub have helped them to compile their losing record. This is also a team with only 2 seniors who get playing time (and 1 junior). This does show that having significant playing time for frosh can be a net liability. With the seniors we will lose to graduation, HC may have similar stats next year, and (hopefully) will show as good a record..of a better one. Army was wiped out by graduation, lost its coach, and was picked to finish last in the conference. While not a great team, Army is currently sitting at KenPom 201 - ahead of Holy Cross, and fourth overall in the conference in that regard. You seem to be saying that the only way freshmen can help a team "win" is if the team has a winning record. By this logic, Karl Charles didn't help us win last year, because we had a losing record. That view doesn't consider the possibility that such a team would be worse without the contributions of the freshmen - Army, Loyola, and American would all be decidedly worse this season without the contributions of their freshmen. No, what I am saying is that you are not making a good argument about the role of freshmen. Yes, the teams you cite would be worse without contributions from their freshmen. It also says that on a weak team with losses to graduation, frosh will have a better chance to play. That does not really relate to Holy Cross or to the point you seem to fixate on (that the HC frosh are not good because they have not been getting playing time over seniors). They will have their chance next season (and will have a full year learning the system used by CBC.
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Post by possum on Jan 15, 2017 13:52:27 GMT -5
RGS we have a losing record you make it sound like the frosh are competing with some stacked roster. The freshmen aren't playing because the coach feels they can't contribute why did Charles play last year because he can play. Freshmen are starting on the three best teams in the PL. Let's face it we have by far the worst freshmen class in the PL and quite possibly in the country nobody could be getting less out of their freshmen than us.
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Post by possum on Jan 15, 2017 13:53:12 GMT -5
RGS we have a losing record you make it sound like the frosh are competing with some stacked roster. The freshmen aren't playing because the coach feels they can't contribute why did Charles play last year because he can play. Freshmen are starting on the three best teams in the PL. Let's face it we have by far the worst freshmen class in the PL and quite possibly in the country nobody could be getting less out of their freshmen than us.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 15, 2017 14:35:38 GMT -5
RGS we have a losing record you make it sound like the frosh are competing with some stacked roster. The freshmen aren't playing because the coach feels they can't contribute why did Charles play last year because he can play. Freshmen are starting on the three best teams in the PL. Let's face it we have by far the worst freshmen class in the PL and quite possibly in the country nobody could be getting less out of their freshmen than us. Posting it twice does not make it better or any more accurate. You may think it sounds that way, but what I am saying is that they are playing against seniors who started under the PO for over a year now. Your last conclusion is bizarre and only serves to reflect your starting bias. Why not give it a rest. IMHO you are wrong, but in three more years we will know.
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Post by possum on Jan 16, 2017 9:54:11 GMT -5
RGS sorry for the double post was an error not trying to send any message. I guess we'll just agree to disagree on the freshmen and hopefully you're right as it is obviously better for the program if JS and CLS become contributors. Next year they will certainly get their chance as there will be many minutes that need to be replaced by the departing seniors.
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Post by Tom on Jan 16, 2017 11:11:53 GMT -5
what I am saying is that they are playing against seniors who started under the PO for over a year now. This has been touched on in a few threads. Most recently how Caleb Green's team plays a very different style than HC. Without detracting from the potential of our incoming class or assigning superstar status to our current players, I think it's reasonable to assume that our 4 sophs, two frosh, and one red shirt tweener will all have a leg up on the incoming kids when the season starts. I base this solely on the fact that our current players have experience with a system that most high school kids haven't played in. I have not written off our two freshmen for the same reason - that the returning players all have that same leg up
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Post by Crosser on Jan 16, 2017 21:33:56 GMT -5
I'm thinking of driving up for the game Wednesday. I've never been to the venue - can anyone offer some helpful tips? What entrance to use? Security procedures? Hotels? Restaurants? Thanks.
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Army (M)
Jan 16, 2017 22:35:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lou on Jan 16, 2017 22:35:13 GMT -5
I'm thinking of driving up for the game Wednesday. I've never been to the venue - can anyone offer some helpful tips? What entrance to use? Security procedures? Hotels? Restaurants? Thanks. Thayer hotel on campus would be very nice. Otherwise head north on 9w toward Newburgh for restaurants and hotels. Enter from 9w or from Highland Falls. You will need to show ID as you enter campus and your car will be searched
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Post by bison137 on Jan 16, 2017 22:44:01 GMT -5
I'm thinking of driving up for the game Wednesday. I've never been to the venue - can anyone offer some helpful tips? What entrance to use? Security procedures? Hotels? Restaurants? Thanks. Thayer hotel on campus would be very nice. Otherwise head north on 9w toward Newburgh for restaurants and hotels. Enter from 9w or from Highland Falls. You will need to show ID as you enter campus and your car will be searched I've attended over 50 games at Christl over the years. On average, I've found it is faster using the Stony Lonesome gate off of 9W although it can vary. My experience has been that it typically takes 5-10 minutes to get through the gate. If they only have one security guy working the security line, then it could be a bit longer. Every adult needs to show a driver's license. Btw, their ticket office is often extraordinarily slow. If possible, it is much better to already have tickets when you arrive.
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Post by Crosser on Jan 17, 2017 13:21:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback, lou and bison'. I'll see how tuckered out I am tomorrow from clearing out from tonight's storm to see if I'm up for the trip.
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Post by possum on Jan 17, 2017 14:37:42 GMT -5
Next five games are critical to putting us in good position in the standings heading into the home stretch. Army, American, Loyola, Navy and Colgate. Should be able to take care of the home games AU and Colgate, the other three on the road are all toss ups with teams we are currently tied with or in Army's case one game behind. If we can get two of the three road games we should be in good shape going into the final third of the season.
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Post by sader81 on Jan 17, 2017 14:56:20 GMT -5
I'm thinking of driving up for the game Wednesday. I've never been to the venue - can anyone offer some helpful tips? What entrance to use? Security procedures? Hotels? Restaurants? Thanks. If you are coming from the north, there are a couple decent restaurants in Newburgh near the river, Billy Joe's, iirc, is a pretty good bbq place. And if you drive south on Water Street near the river, you will catch 9W south of Newburgh and miss all the traffic lights in town. I agree with Bison regarding the Stony Lonesome Gate, although I have never waited more than a minute or two to get through the checkpoint. The arena is just over the hill from the gate, to the right and beyond the football stadium, with ample parking above the arena.
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Post by Crosser on Jan 17, 2017 16:36:16 GMT -5
Thanks
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Post by jflare on Jan 17, 2017 17:45:32 GMT -5
I think this game is similar to last Wednesday's Lafayette game. Important to get a win here. Will right the ship, get us even overall and set the stage for movement over the 500 mark. Much more difficult of course since the game is away, Army is a better team than Franny OH's crew and they probably are still tasting the thrashing we gave them there last March in the semis. A win tomorrow would be a very good one to keep us moving forward overall........ Thoughts...... HC by 7 !!
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Post by bison137 on Jan 17, 2017 18:05:25 GMT -5
I'm thinking of driving up for the game Wednesday. I've never been to the venue - can anyone offer some helpful tips? What entrance to use? Security procedures? Hotels? Restaurants? Thanks. If you are coming from the north, there are a couple decent restaurants in Newburgh near the river, Billy Joe's, iirc, is a pretty good bbq place. And if you drive south on Water Street near the river, you will catch 9W south of Newburgh and miss all the traffic lights in town. I agree with Bison regarding the Stony Lonesome Gate, although I have never waited more than a minute or two to get through the checkpoint. The arena is just over the hill from the gate, to the right and beyond the football stadium, with ample parking above the arena. Agree on the above until the last sentence. I think you meant to say the arena is on the right just before the football stadium. If you pass the stadium, you've gone too far.
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Post by lou on Jan 17, 2017 18:14:40 GMT -5
Hard to miss the parking lot on the right coming down the hill, it is large and well lit, and you will see the Holy Cross bus
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Post by Tom on Jan 18, 2017 9:11:08 GMT -5
Right now 7 out of 10 teams are within a game of .500. It's shaping up to be another year with a big log jam in the middle of the pack and lots of tiebreaking scenarios seedings.
Tonight's road game is an opportunity to separate a little bit from the pack. On some level all league games are important - on another level, HC proved last year that only the games in March are important. To me this is the kind of game that can make the difference between home and away in the quarters. If HC wants to be in the top tier of the league, they have to win this type of game,
Just my semi non sequitur two cents.
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