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Post by cfrivals on Mar 9, 2017 9:46:31 GMT -5
I heard some stat that Bucknell has been in the semi finals or Finals in 20 of the 27 years om the PL existence. What is wrong with HC?? What are we not even in the top four any longer. Forget last year, Where have we been in last 10 years?? I have always been a proponent of leaving the PL, but when we can't even figure out how to consistently get in the top tier and become Bucknell, how can we even fathom we can or will survive elsewhere?? Guys we need to expect better!! to look at 10 years and only have 1 title and that was a 20 loss team that surprised a league that was asleep for a week! Outside of last year, how many PL tourney games have we won in 10 years?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 9, 2017 9:53:17 GMT -5
Holy Cross is 9-9 in PL Tournament play in the past ten seasons.
I think that Ralph's abrupt departure, the tenure of two sub-optimal coaches, and the lack of coaching continuity have contributed to the program's inability to run with the PL Big Boys on a consistent basis
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 9, 2017 9:53:21 GMT -5
Well, last year HC won the PL Tournament. Didn't you notice?  |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 9, 2017 10:01:06 GMT -5
In the same 20 years you cite for Bucknell, HC was in the tournament finals 9 times and won 4 championships. Bucknell has been there 8 times. Where is it that HC is unable to "run?" With all that happened after RW's rapid announced departure, that is not bad. The years since RW's tenure were the result of some unfortunate coaching choices, but that ship seems to have a better skipper now (IMHO).
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Post by lou on Mar 9, 2017 10:02:38 GMT -5
Anyone who has seen Bucknell's facilities would conclude that HC decision makers have been asleep at the wheel for a long time, surprise, surprise. Not saying that's the only reason, but it's a start at understanding the hole we are in.
BTW, noticed today that A10 tourney is on, brace yourselves, NBCSN!
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Post by cfrivals on Mar 9, 2017 10:03:39 GMT -5
As much fun as last seasons 5 game win streak was, a 20 loss season and getting beat by almost 50 by Oregon and seeing what our senior laden class did this year, shows how much weight we can put on that.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 9, 2017 10:06:38 GMT -5
As much fun as last seasons 5 game win streak was, a 20 loss season and getting beat by almost 50 by Oregon and seeing what our senior laden class did this year, shows how much weight we can put on that. Since we are not looking at only 2 years (you picked 20), the answer would be quite a bit.  I know you are trying to make a point, but the evidence of HC not running with the undefined "big boys" for two decades (again going on your choice of time limit) is a bit lacking. |
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Post by hchoops on Mar 9, 2017 10:06:57 GMT -5
As much fun as last seasons 5 game win streak was, a 20 loss season and getting beat by almost 50 by Oregon and seeing what our senior laden class did this year, shows how much weight we can put on that. Whatever else last season was not, it was still a PLC, and an NCAA tourney win |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 9, 2017 10:10:20 GMT -5
Forget last year, Where have we been in last 10 years?? Milan Brown and Sean Kearney didn't help the cause. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 9, 2017 10:11:09 GMT -5
As much fun as last seasons 5 game win streak was, a 20 loss season and getting beat by almost 50 by Oregon and seeing what our senior laden class did this year, shows how much weight we can put on that. 39. And Oregon would have beaten any PL squad last year by at least 30. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 9, 2017 10:34:04 GMT -5
If you take the last 14 years, CRW made the Dance once in six seasons, CSK and CMB made the Dance 0 times in six seasons, and CBC made the Dance once in two seasons. IF CBC gets back to the Dance once in the next four years, he will have bettered the last six years of CRW.
I think it no small coincidence that CRW and CBG had great NCAA runs just as the PL resurrected scollies and HC and AU had a leg up on the other teams as scollies were being restored.
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Post by gks on Mar 9, 2017 10:41:31 GMT -5
T-A-L-E-N-T. Bucknell and Lehigh just recruit better players....plain and simple. I'll compare the PL to I-495....Bucknell and Lehigh are in the high speed lane while HC's was in the breakdown lane for far too long. This is not just the case in men's hoop though....I think last year's run, while great, skewed everyone's opinion of where HC hoop stands. Middle of pack at best. Lot of work to do.
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Post by bison137 on Mar 9, 2017 10:49:50 GMT -5
If you take the last 14 years, CRW made the Dance once in six seasons, CSK and CMB made the Dance 0 times in six seasons, and CBC made the Dance once in two seasons. IF CBC gets back to the Dance once in the next four years, he will have bettered the last six years of CRW. I think it no small coincidence that CRW and CBG had great NCAA runs just as the PL resurrected scollies and HC and AU had a leg up on the other teams as scollies were being restored. First season for scholarships for other PL teams: Lehigh - about 2000-2001 Bucknell - 2003-04 Colgate - 2004-05 Lafayette - 2007-08 Fully scholarship by: Lehigh - about 2003-04 Bucknell - 2006-07 Colgate - 2007-08 Lafayette - 2010-11 |
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 9, 2017 10:51:17 GMT -5
There have been 27 Patriot League Champions from 1991 to yesterday. Becasue it's easier find and process, let's just look at the Championship games. In the 27 championship games
Holy Cross has 6 wins in 11 appearances
Bucknell has 5 wins in 11 appearances
Sojka Pavilion opened in January 2003. Since then there have been 15 PL Championships. In those 15 Championship games
Holy Cross has 3 wins in 6 appearances
Bucknell has 5 wins in 7 apperances.
Near as I can tell, (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) Bucknell is the only PL school to significantly upgrade their facilities in those 27 years. All of Bucknell's Championships and 63% of their finals appearances have come since the upgrade.
So while Bucknell has done well with many things, especially their coaching hires, I think there's some pretty good evidence that facilities have played a big role in their success. And the history says we have been running close to them and we have the opportunity to run with them very soon.
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Post by cfrivals on Mar 9, 2017 11:42:07 GMT -5
As much fun as last seasons 5 game win streak was, a 20 loss season and getting beat by almost 50 by Oregon and seeing what our senior laden class did this year, shows how much weight we can put on that. Whatever else last season was not, it was still a PLC, and an NCAA tourney win Ok, so with that in our back pocket and 4 starters returning, why did we lose 17 games and bow out in quarterfinals? Shouldnt that have bolstered us to be in top two? Recruiting has been awful for those 10 years, lets face it guys! too small, too slow, cant shoot!! Why has Bucknell always got good bigs and guards who can shoot the lights out? No more excuses or skewing based on one little run last year! |
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Post by Ray on Mar 9, 2017 12:16:49 GMT -5
No more excuses or skewing based on one little run last year! If you actually read the thread, the data has been provided for just about any time slice you can name. That's not skewing or excuse making. HC and Bucknell are the two most successful programs in PL history. And I'll suggest that the big difference between Bucknell vs. us over the past decade isn't facilities (or recruiting for that matter). It's coaching. They went seamlessly from Flannery to Paulsen to Davis. We went from RW, into a ditch, and now back on the road with BC. |
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Post by gks on Mar 9, 2017 12:30:42 GMT -5
Stats and history are great. To me it's an eyeball test. I know what I see. HC is way behind.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 9, 2017 12:40:27 GMT -5
So while Bucknell has done well with many things, especially their coaching hires, I think there's some pretty good evidence that facilities have played a big role in their success. And the history says we have been running close to them and we have the opportunity to run with them very soon. If, by your last comment, you mean that now our facility compares favorably with Sojka, imo it does not. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 9, 2017 12:44:58 GMT -5
And the history says we have been running close to them and we have the opportunity to run with them very soon. Part of this history included when HC had scholarships and Bucknell did not. That's partly a reason we won three straight PLCs from 2001-03. |
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Post by lou on Mar 9, 2017 12:46:21 GMT -5
So while Bucknell has done well with many things, especially their coaching hires, I think there's some pretty good evidence that facilities have played a big role in their success. And the history says we have been running close to them and we have the opportunity to run with them very soon. If, by your last comment, you mean that now our facility compares favorably with Sojka, imo it does not. And as I've noted before, when I was there Winter, 2016, it appeared that they were adding on to the Sojka building. Maybe 137 can comment on what that construction was. |
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Post by hchoops on Mar 9, 2017 12:47:52 GMT -5
There have been 27 Patriot League Champions from 1991 to yesterday. Becasue it's easier find and process, let's just look at the Championship games. In the 27 championship games Holy Cross has 6 wins in 11 appearances Bucknell has 5 wins in 11 appearances Sojka Pavilion opened in January 2003. Since then there have been 15 PL Championships. In those 15 Championship games Holy Cross has 3 wins in 6 appearances Bucknell has 5 wins in 7 apperances. Near as I can tell, (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) Bucknell is the only PL school to significantly upgrade their facilities in those 27 years. A bit picky, but Navy's arena was built in '91 |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 9, 2017 12:53:34 GMT -5
If, by your last comment, you mean that now our facility compares favorably with Sojka, imo it does not. And as I've noted before, when I was there Winter, 2016, it appeared that they were adding on to the Sojka building. Maybe 137 can comment on what that construction was. Probably this: www.bucknellbison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=32100&ATCLID=210134189 |
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 9, 2017 12:54:31 GMT -5
I meant that when complete, our basketball facilities in total will compare favorably.
The Hart Center Basketball "arena" will not be the equal of Sojka, however, everything else surrounding it - and honestly the space where the basketball team will be spending the majority of their time - will be on par.
Does the fact that you, I or Non-Alum Dave have to sit on bleachers really impact a recruit's decision? I honestly don't know, but would be surprised if that sways many recruits. I believe ample comfortable locker rooms, hot running water, a practice court, strength & conditioning, film rooms and sports medicine space that is state of the art is far more important.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 9, 2017 13:04:05 GMT -5
I meant that when complete, our basketball facilities in total will compare favorably. The Hart Center Basketball "arena" will not be the equal of Sojka, however, everything else surrounding it - and honestly the space where the basketball team will be spending the majority of their time - will be on par. Does the fact that you, I or Non-Alum Dave have to sit on bleachers really impact a recruit's decision? I honestly don't know, but would be surprised if that sways many recruits. I believe ample comfortable locker rooms, hot running water, a practice court, strength & conditioning, film rooms and sports medicine space that is state of the art is far more important. Fair points, but the appearance of Sojka with all the chair back seats looks far more like a legitimate college arena than does the Hart with all the high school looking bleachers i do not know anything about the other facilities of the Sojka and what the Hart additions will look like is still largely unknown |
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Post by dadominate on Mar 9, 2017 13:39:22 GMT -5
No more excuses or skewing based on one little run last year! If you actually read the thread, the data has been provided for just about any time slice you can name. That's not skewing or excuse making. HC and Bucknell are the two most successful programs in PL history. And I'll suggest that the big difference between Bucknell vs. us over the past decade isn't facilities (or recruiting for that matter). It's coaching. They went seamlessly from Flannery to Paulsen to Davis. We went from RW, into a ditch, and now back on the road with BC. i know we have a like function, but this is such a great post that it deserves more than that! |
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