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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 28, 2017 10:12:09 GMT -5
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Post by joutsHC77 on Nov 28, 2017 12:14:05 GMT -5
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Post by crusader12 on Nov 28, 2017 12:37:23 GMT -5
The media has stirred up the hornets nest today with the Crusader. All over Boston radio/sports stations.
Really embarrassing, I'm sure donations are already dropping. BAD!!!
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Post by clmetsfan on Nov 28, 2017 12:47:57 GMT -5
Actually CL I think it would be muted. No loud sounds are made by people not writing checks. The noise will come stage left with acclaimations and huzzahs for the courageous new vision that has left the violence , religious zealotry, and offensive imagery of the past behind. Those in O'kane will congratulate each other as we fade further into the morass of sameness. To clarify, I was referring mainly to the hand-wringing and garment-rending that would occur on this board, as if a mascot change is the worst thing that could possibly happen in the clusterf--- that is the USA in 2017.
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Post by clmetsfan on Nov 28, 2017 12:49:34 GMT -5
I sincerely hope that Holy Cross students are capable of finding commentary on the issue that's actually reputable.
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2017 13:10:41 GMT -5
The Wheaton College Thunder are in Illinois. In MA, our Wheaton students are Lyons
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 28, 2017 13:55:35 GMT -5
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Post by purplenurple on Nov 28, 2017 14:12:01 GMT -5
My hope is that while this topic is on the lips of many pundits and writers who are merely looking for something to drive listeners or pageviews right now, like most things that go "viral", it should die down quickly and well in advance of the February 3rd decision and this discussion can be had without too much outside distraction.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Nov 28, 2017 14:13:46 GMT -5
I sincerely hope that Holy Cross students are capable of finding commentary on the issue that's actually reputable. Yes, once they are in their safe spaces. Just another media outlet highlighting the issue.
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Post by clmetsfan on Nov 28, 2017 14:39:53 GMT -5
I sincerely hope that Holy Cross students are capable of finding commentary on the issue that's actually reputable. Yes, once they are in their safe spaces. Just another media outlet highlighting the issue. Be sure to let us know when the Enquirer picks it up. Though I am thoroughly amused by the mockery of safe spaces while linking to the ultimate right-wing safe space, so thank you for that.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2017 14:53:13 GMT -5
"ultimate right-wing safe space"
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 28, 2017 14:59:11 GMT -5
Tennessee's nicknames is the Volunteers, which is derived from the state's military history. www.saturdaydownsouth.com/tennessee-football/how-tennessee-earned-nickname-volunteers/Note the photo of the mascot. _________________________________ When Fr. B. discussed the mascot (albrit briefly) in his NPR interview, he posed a question, and I'm greatly paraphrasing, 'what values are being depicted by the mascot, and do these values represent how HC wants people to view the college?' If Ole Miss' mascot was Johnny Reb, I think most people would conclude the university was re-fighting the Civil War. Anaheim California high school had Johnny Reb as a mascot. The nickname, the Rebels, will remain, but the mascot in Confederate gray is gone. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/11/07/southern-california-schools-mascot-johnny-rebel_ap.htmlRather astounding comments by some of the older alums in that they never associated a mascot dressed in the uniform of a Confederate soldier as having to do with the Civil War or slavery.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2017 15:45:45 GMT -5
Isn't it strange that there is all this hullabaloo about this mascot, who stands for something good and decent, while we hear nothing about a change at, say, Duke University whose mascot promotes Satanism???
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 28, 2017 16:20:05 GMT -5
Isn't it strange that there is all this hullabaloo about this mascot, who stands for something good and decent, while we hear nothing about a change at, say, Duke University whose mascot promotes Satanism??? The Blue Devil nickname was also coined in 1923, but its not what you think. www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=242333The crusaders were many things, but good and decent is not how I would describe them.
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Post by ncaam on Nov 28, 2017 16:38:20 GMT -5
Who loosed the Crusaders? Any blame there?
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Post by timholycross on Nov 28, 2017 16:58:52 GMT -5
A number of our posters were on campus when the lyrics to Mamie Reilly were changed in 1969 to delete a reference to "Old Black Joe." Do any of you have insight into how that debate went? Was there outcry from alums about tradition? Ought that inform your opinions about this controversy? Wasn't much of a debate. It went quickly as it should have. It probably should have been changed a long time before 1969.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 28, 2017 17:05:46 GMT -5
Tennessee's nicknames is the Volunteers, which is derived from the state's military history. www.saturdaydownsouth.com/tennessee-football/how-tennessee-earned-nickname-volunteers/Note the photo of the mascot. _________________________________ When Fr. B. discussed the mascot (albrit briefly) in his NPR interview, he posed a question, and I'm greatly paraphrasing, 'what values are being depicted by the mascot, and do these values represent how HC wants people to view the college?' If Ole Miss' mascot was Johnny Reb, I think most people would conclude the university was re-fighting the Civil War. Anaheim California high school had Johnny Reb as a mascot. The nickname, the Rebels, will remain, but the mascot in Confederate gray is gone. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/11/07/southern-california-schools-mascot-johnny-rebel_ap.htmlRather astounding comments by some of the older alums in that they never associated a mascot dressed in the uniform of a Confederate soldier as having to do with the Civil War or slavery. It's a bluetick coonhound. I'm pretty sure Ole Miss turned to a different logo and mascot.
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 28, 2017 19:36:05 GMT -5
Tennessee's nicknames is the Volunteers, which is derived from the state's military history. www.saturdaydownsouth.com/tennessee-football/how-tennessee-earned-nickname-volunteers/Note the photo of the mascot. _________________________________ When Fr. B. discussed the mascot (albrit briefly) in his NPR interview, he posed a question, and I'm greatly paraphrasing, 'what values are being depicted by the mascot, and do these values represent how HC wants people to view the college?' If Ole Miss' mascot was Johnny Reb, I think most people would conclude the university was re-fighting the Civil War. Anaheim California high school had Johnny Reb as a mascot. The nickname, the Rebels, will remain, but the mascot in Confederate gray is gone. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/11/07/southern-california-schools-mascot-johnny-rebel_ap.htmlRather astounding comments by some of the older alums in that they never associated a mascot dressed in the uniform of a Confederate soldier as having to do with the Civil War or slavery. It's a bluetick coonhound. I'm pretty sure Ole Miss turned to a different logo and mascot. Here's a video from one of the candidates when Ole Miss was looking for a new mascot to represent the Rebels.
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 28, 2017 20:11:14 GMT -5
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Post by deep Purple on Nov 28, 2017 20:12:05 GMT -5
Isn't it strange that there is all this hullabaloo about this mascot, who stands for something good and decent, while we hear nothing about a change at, say, Duke University whose mascot promotes Satanism??? The Blue Devil nickname was also coined in 1923, but its not what you think. www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=242333The crusaders were many things, but good and decent is not how I would describe them. “Stands for something good and decent” Wouldn’t you agree that saving the Christian world from the Muslim conquests was good and decent? Wouldn’t you agree that saving eastern Christians in Constantinople was good and decent?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 28, 2017 23:57:00 GMT -5
“Stands for something good and decent” Wouldn’t you agree that saving the Christian world from the Muslim conquests was good and decent? Wouldn’t you agree that saving eastern Christians in Constantinople was good and decent? With respect to saving eastern Christians at Constantinople, I'll let this assessment speak to that. Pope Innocent III As my direct line ancestor was Charles Martel, I'll give him the credit for saving the Christian world from Muslim conquests. I've previously narrated how 'my' cousins organized, paid for, and led three of the crusader armies on the First Crusade. One of the three was Robert Curthose, oldest son of William the Conqueror. I had wondered why my immediate family didn't join up with Robert Curthose. I found an explanation for this in the siege of the family castle in Normandy circa 1090, several tears before the start of the First Crusade. The castle was besieged initially by Robert de Bellene, and then Robert Curthose, my cousin, joined in. Robert de Bellene is described thusly: "Grasping and cruel, an implacable persecutor of the Church of God and the poor... unequaled for his iniquity in the whole Christian era." After a siege of some weeks, the castle was about to fall, when, like the proverbial cavalry, arrives William Rufus, King of England with his army, and scatters the besiegers. William Rufus was a younger brother of Robert Curthose. (William Rufus would finance Curthose's First Crusade in exchange for all of Curthose's very considerable property in Normandy.) As to why those members of my family then in England did not intervene, they were 'holding down the fort' in the north of England, --in York, Durham, and Lincolnshire. They were tasked with this by William the Conqueror, as they had participated in the Harrying of the North campaign of 1069-1070. I had never heard of the Harrying of the North, but now know it to have been a scorched earth campaign. ^^^^ A short summary from Wiki. Current day historians question the death toll, given the total population of that part of England at the time, but it was clearly a genocide on a great scale against the indigenous English by the Normans, Catholics both And it took only several decades to recover from what the Domesday book records as the wasteland of the north. That's why 'good and decent' don't exactly come to mind when describing crusaders. .
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 29, 2017 7:57:29 GMT -5
OK, so far, one clear vote against the Crusader mascot. [You should have chosen your ancestors more wisely, PP].
Who else is rolling on his bandwagon?
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 29, 2017 8:48:12 GMT -5
Be careful of a broad brush over all Crusades and Crusaders. Would you judge all clergy by what Jim Jones did to his followers with that purple Kool-aid?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 29, 2017 11:02:41 GMT -5
Be careful of a broad brush over all Crusades and Crusaders. Would you judge all clergy by what Jim Jones did to his followers with that purple Kool-aid? If someone goes to church six days a week and murders on Wednesdays, does the church-going exculpate the homicides? The Middle Ages were a violent, brutal, and harsh period, of which the crusades were a small part. The crusader behavior was typical of warfare at the time. (The Harrying appears to have been over the top, even for that period.) Its unfair to judge much of the behavior back then by today's standards. But interpolating Fr. B's comments, is it appropriate to have the standards of yesteryear be the ones we should emulate and follow today? Again interpolating Fr. B., what he was saying was that Holy Cross doesn't need the medieval crusader mascot to affirm its Catholic identity. There probably are some who disagree with that, and see the mascot as the sine qua non of Holy Cross as a Catholic college..
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 29, 2017 11:27:42 GMT -5
This is exactly the point. It is the principles and concept of what the Crusades and Crusaders stood for that counts . . . . the defense of Christianity, not the excesses and abuse done by some. Many older alums feel, and some have explicitly stated, that the Crusader is not just a mascot or symbol, they feel that they are Crusaders and removing the Crusader will be an attempt to remove part of their identity. There will be financial hell to pay if the Crusader is tossed overboard.
Break this emotional and financial bond among older alums and Holy Cross will become just another college or university with jubilation when alumni donor participation hits 25%-30%.
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