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Post by ncaam on Mar 10, 2017 16:00:17 GMT -5
Since our Crusader mascot is named "Iggy", why don't we just go with "The Iggies"? Surely you jest.
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Post by Tom on Mar 10, 2017 16:43:39 GMT -5
Since our Crusader mascot is named "Iggy", why don't we just go with "The Iggies"? Surely you jest. He does not jest, but please don't call him Shirley
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 10, 2017 16:44:41 GMT -5
He does not jest, but please don't call him Shirley With that set-up I was just waiting to see who would take advantage of it.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 10, 2017 16:44:53 GMT -5
First, Crossmen/Crosswomen is lame. Somebody will always ask, "What is a Crossman?" Just like they ask, "What is a bearcat?"
Second, there's pretty much nothing that you can think of as a mascot that will be without offense in some degree... unless you pick "Saints." Heat can scorch an unattended child in a locked car, or cause sunburn leading to cancer. Magic can turn an innocent prince into a frog or zap a child into a rat. Giants are inherently discriminatory against those who are "Height Challenged." Eagles eat innocent rodents and Hawks do likewise, or seek war within the Republican Party. Blue Devils are just a pigmented variation of our familiar red adversary. Cardinals are either corrupt officials of the Roman Catholic Church, a sad offshoot of red (which is offensive how they can be so close, yet so far away in color), or a big ass tree, and I just don't like trees.
GIVE. ME. A. BREAK.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 10, 2017 17:00:04 GMT -5
My 'problem' with Fr. Mulledy was not his involvement with the sale of the slaves, but his disobeying the specific directives of the Superior General, for which he was summoned to Rome, and in effect made to do penance in southern France. I can't remember in the narratives whether he had a fondness for the bottle, but he did have a high and mighty opinion of himself. ________________ Regarding Crusader, the Crusades (and the Crusaders) have nothing to do with the history of Holy Cross. The college's motto "In Hoc Signo Vinces" dates to the Roman empire and the Roman legions, and refers to Constantine's vision (of the Chi Rho cross) on the way to a victorious battle that re-unified the empire. According to the etymology, the word 'crusade (croisade)' does not appear in English until 1575, long after the crusades to the Holy Land. Those who went on these crusades did not call themselves 'crusaders'. According to the story, IIRC, a sports writer for the Boston Herald coined the nickname for Holy Cross. Perhaps, he was a freemason, I don't know. I say that because the Maltese Cross of the Knights Templar who went on the early Crusades has been adopted by the freemasons, and the motto 'In Hoc Signo Vinces' has also been adopted by the freemasaons. www.knightstemplar.org/KnightTemplar/articles/20101021.htm The Pope and the king of France put at an end to the Catholic Knights Templar is the early 1300s. The last Grandmaster, Jacques de Molay, was burned on the scaffold by Notre Dame. The Masonic affiliated organization, the Order of De Molay, is named after him. The Kinghts Templar and current day freemasonry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry)
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Post by hchoops on Mar 10, 2017 17:03:20 GMT -5
It seems as if the current opposition to the term has more to do with the KKK's publication than the Crusades
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 10, 2017 17:03:25 GMT -5
That last link could not be viewed (access denied). Perhaps they know I am a member of the Knights of Columbus.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 10, 2017 17:11:09 GMT -5
That last link could not be viewed (access denied). Perhaps they know I am a member of the Knights of Columbus. I had issues with getting the link formatted. The KoC did not intercede.
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Post by td128 on Mar 10, 2017 17:49:11 GMT -5
Has anybody around these parts ever previously heard of a connection between Holy Cross, Crusaders, and the KKK?
Be honest now.
And rather than lowering ourselves and dignifying the KKK by addressing the fact that the same name is used, why don't we take a stand for the true Jesuit principles we crusade so strongly for. Be a powerful force for good and not a pack of spineless lemmings.
η ΤΑΝ Η ΕΠΙ ΤΑΣ
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Post by td128 on Mar 10, 2017 17:50:41 GMT -5
My 'problem' with Fr. Mulledy was not his involvement with the sale of the slaves, but his disobeying the specific directives of the Superior General, for which he was summoned to Rome, and in effect made to do penance in southern France. I can't remember in the narratives whether he had a fondness for the bottle, but he did have a high and mighty opinion of himself. ________________ Regarding Crusader, the Crusades (and the Crusaders) have nothing to do with the history of Holy Cross. The college's motto "In Hoc Signo Vinces" dates to the Roman empire and the Roman legions, and refers to Constantine's vision (of the Chi Rho cross) on the way to a victorious battle that re-unified the empire. According to the etymology, the word 'crusade (croisade)' does not appear in English until 1575, long after the crusades to the Holy Land. Those who went on these crusades did not call themselves 'crusaders'. According to the story, IIRC, a sports writer for the Boston Herald coined the nickname for Holy Cross. Perhaps, he was a freemason, I don't know. I say that because the Maltese Cross of the Knights Templar who went on the early Crusades has been adopted by the freemasons, and the motto 'In Hoc Signo Vinces' has also been adopted by the freemasaons. www.knightstemplar.org/KnightTemplar/articles/20101021.htm The Pope and the king of France put at an end to the Catholic Knights Templar is the early 1300s. The last Grandmaster, Jacques de Molay, was burned on the scaffold by Notre Dame. The Masonic affiliated organization, the Order of De Molay, is named after him. The Kinghts Templar and current day freemasonry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry)Thank you very much for sharing this background. Methinks this should settle it so we can now get back to our regularly scheduled broadcasting.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 10, 2017 17:58:07 GMT -5
Surprised the town of Westborough isn't under fire to change it's name...after all what could be more offensive than the Westboro (yes, spelling's different) Baptist Church???
Insanity.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 10, 2017 18:00:24 GMT -5
It seems as if the current opposition to the term has more to do with the KKK's publication than the Crusades Maybe Dan Shaughnessy should write something about this...then again, working for the Globe may put him solidly in the pro-PC camp. I dunno.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 10, 2017 18:02:17 GMT -5
Has anybody around these parts ever previously heard of a connection between Holy Cross, Crusaders, and the KKK? Be honest now. I became aware of the name of the KKK's paper during the election. (I want our nickname to remain)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 10, 2017 19:06:09 GMT -5
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Post by sarasota on Mar 10, 2017 20:27:41 GMT -5
The two fonts (Gothic?) are similar but not identical. The name of the KKK paper is irrelevant. "Crusaders" is ubiquitous. There used to be a drum corps "The Boston Crusaders." If we want something unique we could go for something like the Oregon "Ducks." We should base our name on what fits HC regardless of anything else. The "Jesuits?" We already have the "Friars." The "Blackstones?" The "Pakachoags?" (with apologies to PP)
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Post by ncaam on Mar 11, 2017 6:25:07 GMT -5
Pakachoags easily tomahawked down for insulting Native Americans
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Post by beaven302 on Mar 11, 2017 14:02:16 GMT -5
My two cents: ... 2. I know I have read that the "Tomahawk" name was given up decades ago because it evoked images of a "whooping savage" that some deemed offensive. (Need Father K, God rest his soul, at a time like this.) Therefore, it looks to me like HC was ahead of the pack on recognizing that words matter.... Regarding the name changed, Father K's book states, "T]he editors offered few clues about their motivation; apparently they intended to alert their readers to a new seriousness of purpose and a more professional style. 'The Crusader attempts to be a newspaper, not an art brochure,' they wrote; in the Tomahawk "the most interesting news was always buried.'"
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 11, 2017 14:58:11 GMT -5
Read the editorial titled "The Last of the Tomahawks" on page 2 here: college.holycross.edu/departments/archives/exhibits/crusader/crusader_pages/1950s/01-07-1955.pdfPerhaps the current editorial board should read it and learn the intent in changing the name from the Tomahawk and stick with the principles outlined therein, If someone took your name and made an incorrect connection to a reprehensible organization, stand up and tell them what you do represent, don't fold like cheap suitcase and quietly consider a name change.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 11, 2017 16:56:21 GMT -5
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Post by timholycross on Mar 11, 2017 19:01:12 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 11, 2017 19:17:20 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Mar 11, 2017 20:45:43 GMT -5
Might be a moot point the way all newspapers are going these days ....unless we continue to use The Crusader in its online version.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 11, 2017 20:49:18 GMT -5
There are the internet and the many sports teams
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Post by Tom on Mar 12, 2017 9:39:04 GMT -5
Last night, I got together with some friends from my days on the hill. For purposes of giving this context, I would say the room ranged from slightly right of center to far left. To the best of my knowledge, no one in the room voted for Trump. I'm not trying to be political, simply providing context.
Everyone in the room thought that the whole idea was foolish and was strongly opposed to changing the name of the paper or the mascot. These are not individuals likely to fall into group think. If someone thought change was warranted, none of these people would be shy about voicing their dissent.
Also, we are at an age where some of us have legacies at the school. One current sophomore told his parents that one of his prof's spent an entire class not on the syllabus, but a lecture on the importance of the name change. Also it was a lecture, not a discussion. There was no opportunity for any student to share an opinion about keeping the name. When talking to his academic adviser about the spring semester classes, there was little discussion of the kid's classes, but a one way diatribe about the importance of abandoning the name Crusader
Someone else had a daughter graduate about 5 years ago. She was invited to be one of the alums to discuss issue about Mulledy Hall. She was upset to report that the discussion groups were a total sham. Contrary to what had been reported, there was zero alumni input into the decision to rename Mulledy, or at least at the meeting she was invited to. She simply got to listen to a talk about why it was anti-HC to have a building named after Fr Mulledy. Once again there no opportunity to voice a dissenting view
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Post by Sader Fan on Mar 12, 2017 11:49:02 GMT -5
True Story: Last fall while at an HC football game, a young woman sitting behind me was reading the "Game Day" program. I heard her say in a loud, agitated voice “Oh my God, their nickname is the Crusaders . . . I can’t believe that Holy Cross would use an offensive name like that.” She was clearly shocked and offended to learn this. As we all know, she is not alone. So, while many of us associate “Crusaders” with the school and team we love, many others see it differently and are put off by it. To that end, I am in favor of changing our name (and my name is “Sader Fan”). Let’s face it, our cognomen is meant, in part, to be a positive way to market our college and sports teams. If many are turned off in hearing “Crusaders”, it is not as effective as it could be. Can’t we find another, non-offensive name that is equally appealing to us long-term, diehard fans? I would think that Holy Cross could spin a name change in a way that would get lots of positive attention. It would present a great marketing opportunity showing that HC is an inclusive place willing to change with the times. The national press would love this. Maybe we could hold a competition like Amherst to pick a name drawing students and alumni (actual and subway) into the process. Finally, once a new name is chosen, it would be a boon to sales of athletic apparel as the Cross would have a new line of team logo items. I believe, based on national trends, that the name will be changed sooner or later. Let’s do it now and avoid a long, drawn-out fight that we can’t win and that will make us look bad to many. I have to say I get turned off by watching people demonstrate in favor of the confederate flag. Many of them have what they believe to be valid arguments involving traditions in favor of keeping it flying but to me it looks like they are insensitive at best and bigoted at worst. Is this how people will view HC if it fights to keep the “Crusader” name?
So I suggest we look for a great new name. In this thread we have two new candidates: “Crossmen & Crosswomen” and the “Iggies”. How about the “Purple Knights” which would allow us to keep Iggy and the logo or just “the Purple”. Or maybe something totally different – like the “NADs” after you know who. . .
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