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Post by HC13 on May 27, 2017 6:58:47 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 27, 2017 7:24:26 GMT -5
From the 1999 report referenced by HC 13 “Holy Cross: By the Numbers” Number of stairs from Linden Lane to Hogan: 92 Number of stairs in an average tour of Holy Cross: 366 (231 up and 135 down) Number of snow steps on the stairs to Dinand: 53 Number of meals served at Kimball each day, on average: 4,000 Number of workers at Kimball: 55 (40 full time and 15 part time) Number of students who work at Kimball each year: 250-300 Number of Jesuit colleges and universities in the United States: 28 Number of Holy Cross alums in the United States: 27,484 Amount of bark mulch used by Holy Cross per year: 180 yards Amount of leaves picked up in the fall: 260 yards Number of lawn mowers owned by Holy Cross: 18 (15 push and 3 riding) Cost of Holy Cross’ land when purchased from Worcester: $1 Number of students in the first graduating class of 1849: 4 Number of graduates in the class of 1998: 614 Number of students in the class of 2002: 724 Has anyone thought to confirm the number of lawnmowers now owned by HC? How about grass cutting equipment owned then and now by bc, Villanova, Colgate, et al? Are we falling behind in this arms race. Where did we rank then and where do we rank now in the annual US News and Lawn Maintenance Report standings?
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Post by sader1970 on May 27, 2017 7:48:12 GMT -5
Someone else can do the math whether or not we got a better deal than when Manhattan was purchased from the Native Americans (did I say that right?) for $24 worth of "trinkets." Has anyone ever found out what those "trinkets" actually were? Maybe a blunderbuss or two?
Is it possible the $1 quoted above got mixed up with the price of the Quonset Hut field house? Wasn't that for $1 + the cost to move it?
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Post by hcpride on May 27, 2017 8:16:28 GMT -5
From the 1999 report referenced by HC 13 “Holy Cross: By the Numbers” Number of stairs from Linden Lane to Hogan: 92 Number of stairs in an average tour of Holy Cross: 366 (231 up and 135 down) Number of snow steps on the stairs to Dinand: 53 Number of meals served at Kimball each day, on average: 4,000 Number of workers at Kimball: 55 (40 full time and 15 part time) Number of students who work at Kimball each year: 250-300 Number of Jesuit colleges and universities in the United States: 28 Number of Holy Cross alums in the United States: 27,484 Amount of bark mulch used by Holy Cross per year: 180 yards Amount of leaves picked up in the fall: 260 yards Number of lawn mowers owned by Holy Cross: 18 (15 push and 3 riding) Cost of Holy Cross’ land when purchased from Worcester: $1 Number of students in the first graduating class of 1849: 4 Number of graduates in the class of 1998: 614 Number of students in the class of 2002: 724 Has anyone thought to confirm the number of lawnmowers now owned by HC? How about grass cutting equipment owned then and now by bc, Villanova, Colgate, et al? Are we falling behind in this arms race. Where did we rank then and where do we rank now in the annual US News and Lawn Maintenance Report standings? These are my favorites from this year's HC 'points of pride' (Not to be confused with the above 1999 list of interesting [?] by-the-numbers facts about Holy Cross): - One of Money Magazine's "10 Great Colleges That Don't Care About Your SATs" - No. 36 on The Economist's list of best colleges in America based on value - Among both "The 100 smartest private colleges in America" and "The 101 smartest liberal arts colleges in America," according to Business Insider - No. 1 on the Institute for International Education's list of long-term study abroad programs Beyond the USNWR rankings, I don't think a significant number of applicants (or parents or guidance counselors) give a hoot about rankings...I am not even sure the ones I pasted from this year's HC "Points of Pride" are particularly impressive...I suspect every college in America is at number 1 on some non-USNWR ranking or opinion poll.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2017 8:18:35 GMT -5
As I recall discussions on the old board about the USN&WR rankings, HC's slippage was partly due to the peer (faculty / administrator) opinions of academics not being great. And a lot of weight was assigned that particular variable. -----Where is the now absent Eric when you really need him to explain this?
IIRC, one consequence of the slippage was HC no longer cooperating with USN&WR with respect to data. ____________________ Schools move up and down these reputational indexes all the time. IMO, from 30-40 years ago, Villanova, Fairfield, Santa Clara are up, St. Joe's is down.
A liberal arts education has become a niche product these days, In the 1999 list cited, HC is the only Catholic (or religious-affiliated) school on the list Colgate has gone from #19 up to #12. From the 1999 list, Mt. Holyoke, Univ of the South, and Conn College have dropped out of the top 30.
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Post by hcpride on May 27, 2017 8:22:49 GMT -5
As I recall discussions on the old board about the USN&WR rankings, HC's slippage was partly due to the peer (faculty / administrator) opinions of academics not being great. And a lot of weight was assigned that particular variable. -----Where is the now absent Eric when you really need him to explain this? IIRC, one consequence of the slippage was HC no longer cooperating with USN&WR with respect to data. ____________________ Schools move up and down these reputational indexes all the time. From 30-40 years ago, Villanova, Fairfield, Santa Clara are up, St. Joe's is down. A liberal arts education has become a niche product these days, In the 1999 list cited, HC is the only Catholic (or religious-affiliated) school on the list Colgate has gone from #19 to #12. From the 199 list, Mt. Holyoke, Univ of the South, and Conn College have dropped out of the top 30. Good points. Another interesting one is that HC's primary cross-applicant schools (excepting Stonehill) are not in the same USNWR category (National Liberal Arts College) as HC. That makes us fairly unique (I think).
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Post by zambonihomie13 on May 27, 2017 15:58:35 GMT -5
Is this what you are referencing? From our own HC website: From the "Points of Pride: College Excellence No. 32 on U.S. News & World Report's list of best liberal arts colleges
No. LOL. Much further back in my memory bank. It was 1997 that we first slipped below 25. To number 27. As the current 'points of pride' essentially indicate, we are now proudly tied at 32 (w/Bucknell, Pitzer, and US Air Force Academy). Out of curiosity, since I was not familiar with the rankings back then, what liberal arts colleges have risen at the expense of HC's slight drop? This could tell us all we need to know. Could it also be changing demographics (i.e. schools in the West and South rising at the expense of Northeast schools)?
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Post by hcpride on May 27, 2017 16:06:30 GMT -5
No. LOL. Much further back in my memory bank. It was 1997 that we first slipped below 25. To number 27. As the current 'points of pride' essentially indicate, we are now proudly tied at 32 (w/Bucknell, Pitzer, and US Air Force Academy). Out of curiosity, since I was not familiar with the rankings back then, what liberal arts colleges have risen at the expense of HC's slight drop? This could tell us all we need to know. Could it also be changing demographics (i.e. schools in the West and South rising at the expense of Northeast schools)? Not sure this is what you are looking for, but click on "US News Liberal Arts College Rankings " here: sites.google.com/site/andyreiter/data( Many - if not all - of the schools HC has lost ground to over the last 30 years, [BC, VU, FU,etc] are not in our USNWR category. As I noted above, we are in that somewhat odd situation wherein our applicant overlap schools are generally not in our USNWR [National Liberal Arts College] category. Just something to keep in mind when looking at our USNWR historical listings and 'slight drop' within that non-competitor category. Beyond that, there are multiple factors involved in moves up and down the rankings over time.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2017 18:21:35 GMT -5
Zamboni, a general reply to your question. The liberal arts colleges have historically been concentrated in the Northeast, with spill-over into Ohio and Virginia. Otherwise, they are scattered, and this is a reflection of most of the top-ranked ones being established in the 19th Century, and remaining relatively small. The oldest are rich (endowment-wise) which allows them to do well in some of the variables favored by USN&WR. So its not a matter of HC dropping while LACs on the West Coast / South have risen.
Some other observations.
> if one looks at the rankings from 1983, the highest rankings for HC have been below the lowest rankings for Colgate. > several women's colleges (members of what was formerly known as the Seven Sisters) have experienced a marked decline in rankings. Scrips, all-women part of the Claremont group of colleges In CA, wasn't even ranked until 1996. > the USNA, USMA, and USAFA were not included in the early lists. Their inclusion has the effect of dropping HC two or three spots. > Conn College has struggled going from all-women to coed. > Wesleyan has slipped markedly. (As has Oberlin.) This may be a function of Wesleyan's size, with an enrollment close to HC and Colgate, its selectivity may have dropped (--just a speculative opinion). > I had never heard of Soka. It has ties to Buddhism, and 40 percent of its students are international. It has a new 1,000 performing arts center, with acoustics designed by Yasuhisa Toyota (world-renowned acoustician). We'll see what the PAC does for HC! > In 1984, Reed was ranked #9, now ranked #87. ________________ HCPride, thanks for the link to the spreadsheet.
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Post by zambonihomie13 on May 28, 2017 9:29:39 GMT -5
Zamboni, a general reply to your question. The liberal arts colleges have historically been concentrated in the Northeast, with spill-over into Ohio and Virginia. Otherwise, they are scattered, and this is a reflection of most of the top-ranked ones being established in the 19th Century, and remaining relatively small. The oldest are rich (endowment-wise) which allows them to do well in some of the variables favored by USN&WR. So its not a matter of HC dropping while LACs on the West Coast / South have risen. Some other observations. > if one looks at the rankings from 1983, the highest rankings for HC have been below the lowest rankings for Colgate. > several women's colleges (members of what was formerly known as the Seven Sisters) have experienced a marked decline in rankings. Scrips, all-women part of the Claremont group of colleges In CA, wasn't even ranked until 1996. > the USNA, USMA, and USAFA were not included in the early lists. Their inclusion has the effect of dropping HC two or three spots. > Conn College has struggled going from all-women to coed. > Wesleyan has slipped markedly. (As has Oberlin.) This may be a function of Wesleyan's size, with an enrollment close to HC and Colgate, its selectivity may have dropped (--just a speculative opinion). > I had never heard of Soka. It has ties to Buddhism, and 40 percent of its students are international. It has a new 1,000 performing arts center, with acoustics designed by Yasuhisa Toyota (world-renowned acoustician). We'll see what the PAC does for HC! > In 1984, Reed was ranked #9, now ranked #87. ________________ HCPride, thanks for the link to the spreadsheet. Thanks PP, that makes sense. I guess I didn't know much about the West Coast liberal arts colleges but they seem to have always ranked well. It looks like inclusion of the service academies, plus the University of Richmond which also was not included in the early lists, along with the rapid ascension of Scripps in California would account for HC being ranked ~25 before to ~30 now. Other than that though, it seems like HC has remained steady while other colleges such as the ones you've mentioned have struggled or all-out plummeted. Obviously we'd like to see more of a rise, but I guess every college can't be as fortunate as Soka! While I still have concerns about stagnation and reputation, a deeper dive into the past rankings at least alleviated any worries I had that the sky was falling.
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Post by hcpride on May 28, 2017 13:27:21 GMT -5
Zamboni, a general reply to your question. The liberal arts colleges have historically been concentrated in the Northeast, with spill-over into Ohio and Virginia. Otherwise, they are scattered, and this is a reflection of most of the top-ranked ones being established in the 19th Century, and remaining relatively small. The oldest are rich (endowment-wise) which allows them to do well in some of the variables favored by USN&WR. So its not a matter of HC dropping while LACs on the West Coast / South have risen. Some other observations. > if one looks at the rankings from 1983, the highest rankings for HC have been below the lowest rankings for Colgate. > several women's colleges (members of what was formerly known as the Seven Sisters) have experienced a marked decline in rankings. Scrips, all-women part of the Claremont group of colleges In CA, wasn't even ranked until 1996. > the USNA, USMA, and USAFA were not included in the early lists. Their inclusion has the effect of dropping HC two or three spots. > Conn College has struggled going from all-women to coed. > Wesleyan has slipped markedly. (As has Oberlin.) This may be a function of Wesleyan's size, with an enrollment close to HC and Colgate, its selectivity may have dropped (--just a speculative opinion). > I had never heard of Soka. It has ties to Buddhism, and 40 percent of its students are international. It has a new 1,000 performing arts center, with acoustics designed by Yasuhisa Toyota (world-renowned acoustician). We'll see what the PAC does for HC! > In 1984, Reed was ranked #9, now ranked #87. ________________ HCPride, thanks for the link to the spreadsheet. Thanks PP, that makes sense. I guess I didn't know much about the West Coast liberal arts colleges but they seem to have always ranked well. It looks like inclusion of the service academies, plus the University of Richmond which also was not included in the early lists, along with the rapid ascension of Scripps in California would account for HC being ranked ~25 before to ~30 now. Other than that though, it seems like HC has remained steady while other colleges such as the ones you've mentioned have struggled or all-out plummeted. Obviously we'd like to see more of a rise, but I guess every college can't be as fortunate as Soka! While I still have concerns about stagnation and reputation, a deeper dive into the past rankings at least alleviated any worries I had that the sky was falling. Glad you found the data useful, apparently there is an appetite out there for the historical USNWR rankings. I have certainly read and heard the observation that we have slipped in reputation and admission statistics vis a vis our actual former and current competitors/cross applicants ( not the schools on the USNWR National Liberal Arts College rankings). Haven't heard anything about the sky falling, etc.
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Post by zambonihomie13 on May 28, 2017 14:33:48 GMT -5
Haven't heard anything about the sky falling, etc. Not meant to be taken literally of course, but with all the hand-wringing about the current state of HC athletics, academics, and admissions, it shouldn't be long before we start to hear about the impending collapse of the stratosphere on this board . I suppose its important to consider how we frame the discussion. Although you are right, HC's cross-applicants have not often been liberal arts colleges, HC is still in fact a liberal arts college. And its reputation as a liberal arts college, within the liberal arts college community, has remained relatively steady and constant for decades. Any perceived slippage vis-a-vis our historic cross-applicant is simply a reflection of the changing tide between liberal arts colleges and national universities. It's also important to remember that this isn't exactly a zero-sum game. While it may be hard for people who grew up in the Catholic school of yesteryear to recognize, what is good for Villanova is not necessarily bad for Holy Cross. Would I like to see admissions to a better job in expanding our footprint and thereby raising standards incrementally? Yes, of course. But the college seems to still be churning out exceptional men and women every year. I'm sure the class of 1950 would have bemoaned the state of academics and admissions at HC in 1980, just as the class of 1980 (not a personal shot, just a ballpark year) bemoans the state of academics and admissions at the college now. (And if the class of the 1950 bemoaned the state of athletics at HC in 1980, well they would have had a much better argument than the class of 1980 does now .) The world of higher education is a constantly changing landscape, and I have faith that TPTB at HC will navigate it successfully just as they have always done. That is not to say they are beyond reproach, or that there are not legitimate concerns, just that I think many of the worries on this board are overstated.
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Post by hcpride on May 28, 2017 19:57:36 GMT -5
Haven't heard anything about the sky falling, etc. Not meant to be taken literally of course, but with all the hand-wringing about the current state of HC athletics, academics, and admissions, it shouldn't be long before we start to hear about the impending collapse of the stratosphere on this board . I suppose its important to consider how we frame the discussion. Although you are right, HC's cross-applicants have not often been liberal arts colleges, HC is still in fact a liberal arts college. And its reputation as a liberal arts college, within the liberal arts college community, has remained relatively steady and constant for decades. Any perceived slippage vis-a-vis our historic cross-applicant is simply a reflection of the changing tide between liberal arts colleges and national universities. It's also important to remember that this isn't exactly a zero-sum game. While it may be hard for people who grew up in the Catholic school of yesteryear to recognize, what is good for Villanova is not necessarily bad for Holy Cross. Top 35ish (this year in a 4-college tie for 32, year before 2-college tie for 32, year before 34.) for HC seems to be more or less our recent consistent niche at this point in USNWR (National Liberal Arts College) rankings. It is certainly true, as you note, that the service academies are ranked above some (including Holy Cross) of the schools on the list. As far as our competitor/cross applicant schools go, respective admission department strategies are often geared to an essentially zero sum game. It seems the pool of prospective applicants in general is relatively finite and the pool of higher performing students is smaller but similarly finite. At the risk of a gross oversimplification, one suspects HC (and all colleges) would like to attract the very top applicants (and those who go elsewhere cannot go to Holy Cross). College reputations and applicant qualifications can and do change over time. Of course HC and many other very good colleges continue to churn out wonderful men and women
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 14, 2017 11:32:30 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 26, 2017 12:53:53 GMT -5
Just back from "Move In" day. This thread is so long that this may already posted but apparently the Class of 2021 is the largest in history - 813 or 814 depending on which official you spoke with.
Apparently the algorithms didn't work. Was told that they have had to knock down some of club/meeting rooms and converted to bedrooms. One of the freshman basketball players told me that he is in a 3-man room.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 26, 2017 13:05:57 GMT -5
Just back from "Move In" day. This thread is so long that this may already posted but apparently the Class of 2021 is the largest in history - 813 or 814 depending on which official you spoke with. Apparently the algorithms didn't work. Was told that they have had to knock down some of club/meeting rooms and converted to bedrooms. One of the freshman basketball players told me that he is in a 3-man room. This tells us everything we need to know
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Post by sarasota on Aug 26, 2017 15:58:39 GMT -5
I was in a FOUR man cell in Wheeler Freshman Year (Wheeler 337). Worked out fine. But we were guys. Got along. The suites that kids get today are Plush by our standards. And we went to Mass every morning in the deep snow! And there were no TVs, no carpets, no phones, no GIRLS. And we LIKED it that way!
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 26, 2017 17:11:03 GMT -5
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Post by hc6774 on Aug 27, 2017 6:40:00 GMT -5
I was in a FOUR man cell in Wheeler Freshman Year (Wheeler 337). Worked out fine. But we were guys. Got along. The suites that kids get today are Plush by our standards. And we went to Mass every morning in the deep snow! And there were no TVs, no carpets, no phones, no GIRLS. And we LIKED it that way! ah yes 1961?... but back then it was about 450 frosh including day hops... there were 8 dorms, 9 if you count the rooms in upper OKane/Fenwick which was mostly Jesuit territory... Wheeler, almost 90 yrs old?, still in heavy use
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Post by matunuck on Aug 27, 2017 7:36:36 GMT -5
As usual, HC provides little hard data on an incoming class. Believe we used to have 60 percent in top ten percent of their respective class. Stunning how little info we provide compared to many other schools.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 27, 2017 7:41:13 GMT -5
I was in a FOUR man cell in Wheeler Freshman Year (Wheeler 337). Worked out fine. But we were guys. Got along. The suites that kids get today are Plush by our standards. And we went to Mass every morning in the deep snow! And there were no TVs, no carpets, no phones, no GIRLS. And we LIKED it that way! ah yes 1961?... but back then it was about 450 frosh including day hops... there were 8 dorms, 9 if you count the rooms in upper OKane/Fenwick which was mostly Jesuit territory... Wheeler, almost 90 yrs old?, still in heavy use And the Mass Pike had signs directing drivers to the proper exit for Holy Cross Stadium.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 27, 2017 7:58:29 GMT -5
As usual, HC provides little hard data on an incoming class. Believe we used to have 60 percent in top ten percent of their respective class. Stunning how little info we provide compared to many other schools. For the class entering in the Fall of 2007, 65% were in the top tenth 97% were in the top quarter 39 percent were from Massachusetts 56 percent female. ALANA numbers are worthless, race/ethnicity unknown for 1/7th of the class. 10 foreign students 7066 applicants Acceptance rate was 33 percent Yield (enrollment) of the accepted applicants: 31 percent 251 admitted early decision ______________________________ A marked deterioration in academic achievement. SAT was optional back then as well, only 49 percent had submitted scores. I'm guessing little change in the from New England / outside New England ratio.
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Post by lou on Aug 27, 2017 8:02:04 GMT -5
ah yes 1961?... but back then it was about 450 frosh including day hops... there were 8 dorms, 9 if you count the rooms in upper OKane/Fenwick which was mostly Jesuit territory... Wheeler, almost 90 yrs old?, still in heavy use And the Mass Pike had signs directing drivers to the proper exit for Holy Cross Stadium. When was that removed? Doesn't seem like that long ago that it was still on the Mass Pike
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 27, 2017 8:12:45 GMT -5
And the Mass Pike had signs directing drivers to the proper exit for Holy Cross Stadium. When was that removed? Doesn't seem like that long ago that it was still on the Mass Pike Haven't driven the 'Pike near the Auburn exit recently. But last few times I did, I didn't see the signs. Purple letters on white background. Perhaps they were/are seasonal. IIRC, these were the only signs for any college between Sturbridge and Boston.
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Post by sarasota on Aug 27, 2017 8:35:05 GMT -5
In 1959 the construction of Rt 290 stopped within view of the campus. Rt 9 was the usual way into Boston. We knew every point along the way into Boston. The way into NY Metro area was down Rt 95 (The CT Pike), which had tolls, or down 5/15. Rt 84 did not yet exist. If you wanted to go across the Tappan Zee into Jersey and PA you went down 95 to the Cross Westchester Pkwy. The construction of 84 was a godsent. On the way down 5/15 there was a restaurant with a waitress who had a condition you might call Mammaries Giganticus. On vacation getaway day your car full of NJ guys would naturally stop at that that restaurant and there would already be HC guys in there. I kid you not. Remember, no girls during the school week, on Sundays girls allowed only in the dorm lobbies, no cars except for Seniors. Can you spell h*rney?
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