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Post by zambonihomie13 on Apr 29, 2017 15:16:04 GMT -5
I have degrees from both HC and ND. In my experience, HC is far less of a seminary than ND. It has coed dorms, does not have parietals, does not have a statue mourning unborn fetuses (not trying to spark a political dialogue, just stating a fact), and when it has a speaker or guest who waivers from the traditional Catholic stance on a certain issue, there is far less outcry than at ND (see: Obama, Biden v. Favreau). Maybe some of this has to do with the states they're in (MA v. IN), but to think that HC is more of a seminary than ND is laughable.
As for atheist being invited to give lectures at HC....you do know we have atheist professors who teach at HC and who give lectures on the topic all the time right? (see: Matthew Koss). HC allows for more of a diverse discussion on these issues than any other Catholic college in the country, save for maybe Georgetown which is practically secular at this point.
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Post by sarasota on Apr 29, 2017 15:57:22 GMT -5
zamboni- Thanks for your input. There is a difference between a professor who treats such topics as atheism and the high profile that goes along with a major presentation by a recognized outsider in McFarland accompanied by ancillary events. Invite Daniel Dennett at Tufts. Finally, I was comparing the two schools' mission statements, not their actual behavior. Nonetheless, I'm glad to hear somebody is flying the Reason flag at HC.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 30, 2017 8:27:58 GMT -5
We could look at our reasonable competitors and beat them out for the better students but first we have to be realistic about our actual competitors. : Obviously ND and Georgetown admitted students are not coming here. We are now a safety school (at best) for BC and Villanova applicants and just as obviously we are not beating them out for any cross-admits. Here are the remaining cross - competitors (source is last page, www.holycross.edu/sites/default/files/files/alumni/holy_cross_fund_four-pager_10-12-16_final_low_res.pdf : UMASS, UCONN, Stonehill, Loyola MD, Fordham, Fairfield, Providence, Northeastern, BU. Tough/impossible to compete price-wise for the stronger students against UMASS, UCONN. What can we offer to draw the better students (in fact, any admitted students at all) away from Stonehill, Fordham, Loyola (MD), Fairfield, Providence, Northeastern and BU in a very tough market? We essentially don't pay for academic merit so that usual route (taken by many on the list) is closed for HC.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 30, 2017 9:02:14 GMT -5
pride, the link you provided doesn't work (for me, anyway) but assume it is a copy of a page from the Volunteer Summit which lists the admission overlap schools alphabetically.
According to the breakout group with Dottie Hauver, the schools with the greatest overlap of admissions are Georgetown, BC and Notre Dame. I do not think it is "obvious" that students admitted to those schools are not coming to HC as there are many factors for why a student would choose one over the other. I have seen no evidence that Villanova is beating HC out for students overall. Again, no question some will choose Villanova over HC just as some will choose HC over GU as USN&WR rankings are not the only criteria students use to choose their college.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 30, 2017 9:56:36 GMT -5
pride, the link you provided doesn't work (for me, anyway) but assume it is a copy of a page from the Volunteer Summit which lists the admission overlap schools alphabetically. According to the breakout group with Dottie Hauver, the schools with the greatest overlap of admissions are Georgetown, BC and Notre Dame. I do not think it is "obvious" that students admitted to those schools are not coming to HC as there are many factors for why a student would choose one over the other. I have seen no evidence that Villanova is beating HC out for students overall. Again, no question some will choose Villanova over HC just as some will choose HC over GU as USN&WR rankings are not the only criteria students use to choose their college. I fixed the link. Inasmuch as generalities are a part of life and a requirement in any substantive discussion could we at least agree that the student who is cross-admitted at Georgetown and Holy Cross tends to enroll at Georgetown? Notwithstanding the fact that there are many factors why a student would choose one over the other. If we can agree on that first point, I would further suggest one can substitute BC and Villanova for Georgetown at this point. Again, notwithstanding that this is a generality, life has exceptions to generalities, rates may not be identical to Georgetown, this may represent a significant change from 30-35 years ago, and there are many factors for why a student would choose one over the other. I work with high school students and have done so for the past 30 years and have witnessed the ebb and flow of school popularity and choice among stronger students. I do agree that USN&WR and the statistics of admitted students (SAT/ACT, etc.) while relatively significant, are not nearly the sole criteria for prospective student preferences.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 30, 2017 10:06:42 GMT -5
Agree. FWIW, the page you linked is different than the one I have. Everything else being equal, a student accepted to HC will likely go to GU most of the time and probably ND as well because of their higher name recognition. BC, perhaps over HC 70%-80% but would guess Villanova the reverse percentage unless a football or basketball student athlete.
I would love to see some actual stats on matriculated students of those accepted by all these schools. Increasing the percent who choose HC over the others should be an objective for any admissions officer, Ann or a future successor.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 30, 2017 10:27:20 GMT -5
Agree. FWIW, the page you linked is different than the one I have. Everything else being equal, a student accepted to HC will likely go to GU most of the time and probably ND as well because of their higher name recognition. BC, perhaps over HC 70%-80% but would guess Villanova the reverse percentage unless a football or basketball student athlete. I would love to see some actual stats on matriculated students of those accepted by all these schools. Increasing the percent who choose HC over the others should be an objective for any admissions officer, Ann or a future successor. I think we are in agreement except on one minor point. Just as the BC-HC admissions relationship shifted from where it was 40 years ago - and I agree with your 70-80% current guesstimate - the VU-HC student preference has shifted from where it was just 10 years ago. I'll even predict that BC now has a stronger challenge on it hands from a former ND/BC safety school (VU). As long as we realistically recognize all of our actual current reasonable competition [UMASS, UCONN, Stonehill, Loyola MD, Fordham, Fairfield, Providence, Villanova, Northeastern, BU, as published by HC itself] - and adapt to the marketplace and these actual competitors - we should be optimistic about HC's future.
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Post by zambonihomie13 on Apr 30, 2017 13:01:08 GMT -5
Agree. FWIW, the page you linked is different than the one I have. Everything else being equal, a student accepted to HC will likely go to GU most of the time and probably ND as well because of their higher name recognition. BC, perhaps over HC 70%-80% but would guess Villanova the reverse percentage unless a football or basketball student athlete. I would love to see some actual stats on matriculated students of those accepted by all these schools. Increasing the percent who choose HC over the others should be an objective for any admissions officer, Ann or a future successor. I think we are in agreement except on one minor point. Just as the BC-HC admissions relationship shifted from where it was 40 years ago - and I agree with your 70-80% current guesstimate - the VU-HC student preference has shifted from where it was just 10 years ago. I'll even predict that BC now has a stronger challenge on it hands from a former ND/BC safety school (VU). As long as we realistically recognize all of our actual current reasonable competition [UMASS, UCONN, Stonehill, Loyola MD, Fordham, Fairfield, Providence, Villanova, Northeastern, BU, as published by HC itself] - and adapt to the marketplace and these actual competitors - we should be optimistic about HC's future. I know that in my class ('13) we had more people transfer IN from BC than we had transfer to. And for whatever reason, we consistently remain ranked ahead of BC in rankings in which both schools are included (best schools in MA, best catholic colleges, etc.). Not saying HC is definitely stronger than HC, just saying its closer than some people think. I also know most of my classmates, including myself, easily got into VU and chose HC over it. Not sure where your perception is coming from? No doubt Villanova has improved its academic reputation and good for them. But, beyond perception: VU admits 48% of its students, and HC admits 37%. HC has more admits in the top tenth and top quarter of their high school class. Yes VU has improved their academic reputation remarkably and its reflected in their admissions. But I do not think they've completely left HC in the dust. That is not to say HC shouldn't critically think about its academic reputation and and admissions selectivity and its plateau relative to the the steady improvement of schools like BC, VU, and PC, because it of course should. One thing I don't think the college advertises well enough is the strength of its accounting program. At most colleges, you need a 5th year before entering the profession. Due to class hours, HC allows students to complete it in 4. All of my friends who majored in accounting were able to easily find employment upon graduation. Sometimes it feels like HC's marketing as a Catholic liberal arts college gives the impression that you have to major in finger painting and prayer service.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 30, 2017 15:42:12 GMT -5
I aced both accounting classes at HC and felt they were very good. I then went for my MBA at Northeastern and the grad level accounting courses I took were a snap after getting the HC foundation. I was in the "Executive MBA" program at NU (Buddy Venne was a year ahead of me) and two classmates (maybe 20 total in the program) were bc grads--both with accounting degrees from bc. I aced the NU accounting classes while the two guys from bc (not bad guys actually) got B's. I thought that was very funny. Yes, this was 40 years ago and things may have changed.....
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 30, 2017 20:22:17 GMT -5
. . . . or maybe not. Oh, wait. There is the "Flutie effect."
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Post by Ray on May 4, 2017 10:26:05 GMT -5
I aced both accounting classes at HC and felt they were very good. I then went for my MBA at Northeastern and the grad level accounting courses I took were a snap after getting the HC foundation. I was in the "Executive MBA" program at NU (Buddy Venne was a year ahead of me) and two classmates (maybe 20 total in the program) were bc grads--both with accounting degrees from bc. I aced the NU accounting classes while the two guys from bc (not bad guys actually) got B's. I thought that was very funny. Yes, this was 40 years ago and things may have changed..... No need to equivocate. Things have changed significantly at Northeastern over the past 40 years, particularly in the last 15 or so. It now ranks in the top 50 of USNews' national university rankings (to quote one imperfect metric). In the past decade alone, it has climbed some 100 places on that list. It would be virtually unrecognizable from your time there.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 4, 2017 12:42:04 GMT -5
Northeastern has certainly moved up--I wonder if it was helped more by its great success/higher national profile in athletics or by its location in a "cool" city???
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Post by hcpride on May 5, 2017 4:33:55 GMT -5
I aced both accounting classes at HC and felt they were very good. I then went for my MBA at Northeastern and the grad level accounting courses I took were a snap after getting the HC foundation. I was in the "Executive MBA" program at NU (Buddy Venne was a year ahead of me) and two classmates (maybe 20 total in the program) were bc grads--both with accounting degrees from bc. I aced the NU accounting classes while the two guys from bc (not bad guys actually) got B's. I thought that was very funny. Yes, this was 40 years ago and things may have changed..... No need to equivocate. Things have changed significantly at Northeastern over the past 40 years, particularly in the last 15 or so. It now ranks in the top 50 of USNews' national university rankings (to quote one imperfect metric). In the past decade alone, it has climbed some 100 places on that list. It would be virtually unrecognizable from your time there. I completely agree. I see it on a daily basis with the brightest students - Northeastern is now on their lists to visit and apply (and attend). Their ascent is due to an enormous number of wise decisions on the part of its leadership. And your point that things have changed over the last 40 years is well taken. (Being in Boston hasn't hurt - but of course they have always been in Boston so that may not be a decisive reason for their ascent. At this point, although there is an applicant overlap, Northeastern is substantially more selective than HC. Most likely we lose the student accepted to both .)
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Post by Tom on May 5, 2017 7:52:55 GMT -5
Northeastern has certainly moved up--I wonder if it was helped more by its great success/higher national profile in athletics or by its location in a "cool" city??? Cool city. Also, co-ops as a central part of the curriculum doesn't hurt
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Post by crossbball13 on May 5, 2017 18:23:19 GMT -5
My experiences with northeastern tell me that it attracts a different student than hc does and there is very little cross over (liberal arts vs focused majors. City hub vs campus setting. 5 years vs 4 years. International vs not). If you're applying to both, you're probably confused.
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Post by hcpride on May 5, 2017 19:09:34 GMT -5
My experiences with northeastern tell me that it attracts a different student than hc does and there is very little cross over (liberal arts vs focused majors. City hub vs campus setting. 5 years vs 4 years. International vs not). If you're applying to both, you're probably confused. Actually, there is significant overlap. See page 4 here: www.holycross.edu/sites/default/files/files/alumni/holy_cross_fund_four-pager_10-12-16_final_low_res.pdfI noted in an above post (APR 30) that many alums are somewhat unaware of our current competitors in terms of actual cross-admits. Given the differing admission standards we might be a safety school for Northeastern cross-admits. I do agree HC and Northeastern seem quite dissimilar. So too HC and UMass, HC and BU, etc. But their accepted students (to one degree or another, of course) do overlap.
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Post by crossbball13 on May 5, 2017 20:25:40 GMT -5
My experiences with northeastern tell me that it attracts a different student than hc does and there is very little cross over (liberal arts vs focused majors. City hub vs campus setting. 5 years vs 4 years. International vs not). If you're applying to both, you're probably confused. Actually, there is significant overlap. See page 4 here: www.holycross.edu/sites/default/files/files/alumni/holy_cross_fund_four-pager_10-12-16_final_low_res.pdfI noted in an above post (APR 30) that many alums are somewhat unaware of our current competitors in terms of actual cross-admits. Given the differing admission standards we might be a safety school for Northeastern cross-admits. I do agree HC and Northeastern seem quite dissimiliar. What exactly is page 4 supposed to tell me?
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Post by hcpride on May 6, 2017 4:19:13 GMT -5
What exactly is page 4 supposed to tell me? See "Admission Overlap Schools" chart. Indicates a selected group of schools that, according to HC, have overlapping admitted students.
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Post by crossbball13 on May 6, 2017 8:03:20 GMT -5
What exactly is page 4 supposed to tell me? See "Admission Overlap Schools" chart. Indicates a selected group of schools that, according to HC, have overlapping admitted students. Still don't see that on page 4 which is the financial overview page (at least for me). Does the common app release common applications? If not how would they get this data?
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Post by hcpride on May 6, 2017 8:58:53 GMT -5
See "Admission Overlap Schools" chart. Indicates a selected group of schools that, according to HC, have overlapping admitted students. Still don't see that on page 4 which is the financial overview page (at least for me). Does the common app release common applications? If not how would they get this data? You are on the right page! You just have to read the item on the page that notes "Admission Overlap Schools" . (Assuming you are serious and can't find it, first find the colorful pie chart at the top left of that page. Now look immediately below it at the blueish bar graph. Read each school listed there in tiny print. Starts with UMass/Amherst, UConn, Stonehill, Loyola MD, Fairfield, etc. And see the small label above that very same blueish bar graph: "Admission Overlap Schools".) None of the schools are a surprise, there is no indication of rank order, and many schools make this sort of information available. FWIW BC's list:http://www.bc.edu/offices/pubaf/about/facts.html Top 10 BC Cross-Application Competitors (in rank order) 1. Georgetown University 2. University of Notre Dame 3. Harvard University 4. University of Pennsylvania 5. Brown University 6. Villanova University 7. Boston University 8. Cornell University 9. University of Virginia 10. Yale University
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Post by beaven302 on May 6, 2017 13:22:15 GMT -5
There's room for both business and liberal arts in a 3000 student college. Bucknell certainly thinks there should be a place for liberat arts. They have quality science programs (my son majored in chemistry there), but they are now spending $7.9 to convert an old fraternity house into a humanities center. The professor who's the head of the humanities center said: "We want to expand the humanities beyond the classroom with the grand vision of making the humanities a greater part of the identity of the University."
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