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Post by purplehaze on Jul 5, 2017 15:35:37 GMT -5
how does '82' in the class of '21 at West Point sound ! There is no mistaking that they want to play FBS football. In a certain way, the size of these classes (assume Navy also brings in at least 60-70) hurts our recruiting as we're going after the same caliber student-athlete, and we always lose a few to the academies, where those kids have a small chance of contributing. goarmywestpoint.com/news/2017/7/3/football-monken-welcomes-class-of-2021.aspx
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Post by bison137 on Jul 5, 2017 16:52:45 GMT -5
Army has had bigger classes - sometimes approaching 100. Navy also. And they also being in massive numbers of recruits in many PL sports. The number is much higher than it was 15 years ago.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 5, 2017 18:12:28 GMT -5
I think Navy had 160+ on its roster this past season. I don't fault the academies, Nominations to the academies are a complicated process. See Table i, pdf p. 10. fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33213.pdf
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Post by bison137 on Jul 5, 2017 18:29:36 GMT -5
But many of the athletes fall outside of the normal nomination process. A coach can meet a prospective recruit and extend an offer the same day.
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Post by ncaam on Jul 5, 2017 19:17:10 GMT -5
Should the PL step in?
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Post by joe on Jul 5, 2017 20:23:56 GMT -5
Service academies don't play PL football. Who cares?
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Post by bison137 on Jul 5, 2017 21:15:11 GMT -5
Service academies don't play PL football. Who cares? But the same issue applies to soccer, lacrosse, track and field, swimming, and other patriot league sports. Also applies to basketball, with army bringing in as many as 32 players over a four-year period.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 5, 2017 21:21:26 GMT -5
And they are still looking for their first PLC
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Post by bison137 on Jul 5, 2017 22:07:42 GMT -5
And they are still looking for their first PLC Yes, because basketball is the one sport where PL teams have enough scholarships to offset the sheer numbers of players brought in by the SA's. But in many other sports, Navy and Army have become more dominant each year.
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Post by lou on Jul 6, 2017 6:39:25 GMT -5
Interesting to note that all Army home games will be televised on the PL favorite network CBSSN. Didn't realize it if it was done in the past
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 6, 2017 8:42:54 GMT -5
Let's not forget the use made by the academies of their prep schools. Each hoop team can sometimes bring in 5 players at the same time that have worked together for a year or more.
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Post by hc87 on Jul 6, 2017 9:15:48 GMT -5
This is all basically offset by both the commitment after graduation and the rigor of their college-days imo. It's not like Army and Navy are getting 4 or 5 star guys for football or basketball. Navy has done a bettah job recruiting for football lately but even their players are mostly only recruited by lower-tier FBS programs or FCS programs....it's not like their recruits are often debating: "Ohio St or Navy?"
As for the other sports....basically, who cares? Let them win the PL in soccer....some of those guys and gals will be in Afghanistan or God knows where next year.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 6, 2017 9:36:10 GMT -5
I believe that the cadets/middies have the respect and support of all of the athletes and fans of the PL (and CROSSPORTS posters) for their love of country and the difficult tasks they are taking on. Having said that, I would still love to see HC beat them in every sport every year. Of course, that will not happen, but I do see it as a worthwhile goal. PS: Since you asked, I care. I also do not believe that any HC team in any sport would ever have a "let them win" attitude toward the academies, nor would academy athletes want such an attiude.
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Post by sarasota on Jul 6, 2017 10:22:48 GMT -5
Academy athletes deserve extra respect for their willingness to serve in the military, especially when there are shooting wars happening.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 6, 2017 13:57:32 GMT -5
IMHO our football program is very much on the upswing and a worthy long term goal would be parity or near parity with West Point football. In other words, top FCS-type recruits with a few stolen FBS starter types as stars. And one draft-caliber player almost every year. Would challenge for Patriot League championship every year with that sort of team makeup.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 6, 2017 14:12:58 GMT -5
A long way to go for that to become a reality
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Post by ncaam on Jul 6, 2017 14:28:20 GMT -5
I think navy will in 5 years leave the PL for a better football league.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 6, 2017 20:29:32 GMT -5
Let's not forget the use made by the academies of their prep schools. Each hoop team can sometimes bring in 5 players at the same time that have worked together for a year or more. And yet neither have managed to win the PL since when, 2000?
I remember reading the book, "The Last Amateurs" during high school and the author mentioned that back then the academies actually had the additional advantage of full federal rides since the rest of the conference was still non-scholarship. The book chronicled the 1999 Patriot League basketball season for those who have not read. I remember Josh Sankes being a major character in the book as well as Army PG-turned-analyst Chris Spatola.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 6, 2017 20:31:57 GMT -5
I think navy will in 5 years leave the PL for a better football league. I don't really understand. I'm guessing you mean they will leave the PL as an all-sports (minus football) member to put their non-football sports in a stronger football league? If that were a priority for them, wouldn't they be in the AAC in all sports right now?
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Post by bison137 on Jul 6, 2017 20:32:17 GMT -5
I think navy will in 5 years leave the PL for a better football league. Very unlikely.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 6, 2017 21:40:33 GMT -5
Navy would not want to be in a different conference than Army, would it???
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Post by hc87 on Jul 6, 2017 21:49:14 GMT -5
Navy is already in the AAC for football....Army remains independent for football. It is an odd dichotomy. Army had a very bad experience when it joined Conference USA for football in the late 1990s. Not sure how this will play out ultimately.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 6, 2017 22:27:17 GMT -5
Navy is already in the AAC for football....Army remains independent for football. It is an odd dichotomy. Army had a very bad experience when it joined Conference USA for football in the late 1990s. Not sure how this will play out ultimately. AAC is a very good football conference but the CUSA of old that Army was a member of was probably a bit stronger with the likes of Louisville, Southern Miss, Tulane (when they were good), TCU, Cincinnati, East Carolina and an upstart South Florida.
Navy has been playing at a level that looks to be close to their ceiling but they've had sustained success for a good decade and a half now and have gradually gotten incrementally a little bit better over that time, with the strength of schedule notably increasing. The Mids seem to continually RELOAD at QB, FB and the slot-back positions with at least 3-4 guys game-ready to fill in at those positions at any given time. Also noticed that the Navy OLINE this past season was about 20-30 pounds heavier than it's been in the past. Less stringent physical requirements to get these guys in? Either that or they somehow find the most agile cut-blocking 290+ pounders out there. Navy has also hit back-to-back home runs with head coaches in Johnson and Niamatulo, who looks to be a career guy there after turning down BYU. You'd think that at some point they'll take their lumps in such a competitive AAC but so far they've competed more than aptly and should be expected to continue that this year.
I'd be surprised if Army joined AAC after the CUSA experiment.
While there doesn't seem to be any REASON for either academy to leave the PL for another all-sports conference, there was a time that Army played in the MAAC (alongside HC) and Navy in the CAA so it wouldn't be unprecedented for them to compete in different leagues. Again highly doubt it will happen because there is nowhere particularly attractive for either or both to go. The addition of Loyola makes Navy less of a geographic outlier and Army is right in the epicenter travel-wise. Plus, let's not forget the importance of lacrosse at both academies, where the PL is a perfect fit for them.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 7, 2017 8:31:45 GMT -5
I think both the USNA and USMA like the PL because of the academics of the member schools. Joining a FBS conference for all sports increases travel distances, means more time away from the classroom, and few FBS conference compete in as many conference sports as does the PL.
My understanding of the athletics budgets of the academies is limited, but I don't think they can afford a spike in travel costs from flying their non-revenue teams hither and yon.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 7, 2017 9:34:13 GMT -5
OK, if we are speaking about the unknown future...any chance the academies might shift to PL football? I know it is FCS, but - at least for a while - it could mean both of them in the FCS playoffs. I wonder if the PL members would welcome such a move?
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