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Post by sader1970 on Jul 31, 2017 5:51:49 GMT -5
My favorite book in high school was "How to lie with statistics."
You can slice and dice the numbers any which way and while 13's point of 100 extra (full pay - international students, perhaps?) students "covering" the cost of football scholarships may not be entirely correct, I think even PP's comments indicate that more students offset to some degree the cost of football schollies. I'd pretty much guarantee that is not the administration's reason for the extra students.
BTW, while effectively making his point, BU is an extreme example because it is a PL outlier because: 1. BU's enrollment is enormous compared to all other PL schools and 2. they don't play football. They shouldn't be in the PL (whew, I feel better saying that) and the "Turnpike Trophy" is a joke.
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Post by ncaam on Jul 31, 2017 7:17:30 GMT -5
TT is one of adnp biggest mistakes.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 31, 2017 7:17:47 GMT -5
sader1970, let me give you an analog where '13's unerlying premise would be valid..
HC is faced with declining enrollment. TPTB ask Ann what her solution would be. Ann replies, 'in follow-up interviews with applicants who chose to go elsewhere, the number one reason for rejecting HC was HC was not playing FBS football'. TPTB respond.
HC shifts conferences, an additional 20 football scollies are authorized. Enrolling students are 200 more than anticipated. The added revenue from those 200 'extra' students more than offsets the marginal cost of upgrading the FCS program. A triumphant Ann exults.
_________________________
BostU is an outlier, but no more an outlier than HC would be playing football in the CAA, or hoops in the NBE, or even men's ice hockey in HE.
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Post by ncaam on Jul 31, 2017 7:21:43 GMT -5
What is the reason hc gets rejected?
I never recommended HC to my kids. $$$ for both son and daughter and lack of biz skool for my son.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 31, 2017 8:16:37 GMT -5
No disagreement with your analogy but . . . . BU is in the Patriot League! So, in keeping with your analogy, does that mean HC should join the Big East or CAA? (No need to answer, that was a rhetorical question).  PP, a preposterous analogy!  1. Ann McD will not be around if this scenario would even hypothetically happen [and if she was, she wouldn't conceive of answering that way]. 2. If HC changed to FBS, Ann would not be either "triumphant" or "exulting." |
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 31, 2017 8:19:33 GMT -5
Assuming "TT" refers to Torey Thomas, would you enlighten us how this is one of Nate's biggest mistakes? Was this a sin of omission or commission on the part of Nate? I must have missed something.
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Post by ncaam on Jul 31, 2017 8:26:09 GMT -5
Boston College
Massachusetts, in general, has seen applications dropping around all the State’s Colleges. Boston College saw the worst of it, though, with a significant decrease of 27.96% in applicants.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jul 31, 2017 8:27:07 GMT -5
Think he means Turnpike Trophy, sader. I still fail to see how it's a mistake, but if that's been ADNP's biggest mistake to date, I'd say he and the BOT have to be head-over-heels with his performance!  |
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Post by purplehaze on Jul 31, 2017 8:28:18 GMT -5
TT = Turnpike trophy
and you're correct, it was a crazy idea. BU funds their minor sports with loads of scholarships (since they don't have football) and will continue to clean our clocks.
I believe the only victory we had last year was in women's X-C.
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Post by sarasota on Jul 31, 2017 9:47:26 GMT -5
maybe BU is considering bringing fball back and those who voted BU into the PL know it
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 31, 2017 9:47:36 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for the clarification of what "TT" meant. I never made the connection even though I am the one who used the term.
I agree that this is pretty much a one-sided waste of time but I totally agree if this is Nate's biggest mistake, he's done very well for himself.
Edit: The Turnpike Trophy might make sense for basketball only where we play on a level playing field (er, "court"). As for football, Sarasota, it was made abundantly clear that BU was never bringing back that sport when they joined the PL and no hint that they are re-visiting that decision. And, why should they, when they can can dominate the "TT." Of all the schools in the PL, you would think the BU would be the one that could most afford to field a football team.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 1, 2017 17:18:13 GMT -5
Boston U would have great difficulty bringing football back because of Title IX. From a Title IX standpoint,, the M:F ratio at BostU almost precludes it.
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Post by Ray on Aug 2, 2017 9:38:06 GMT -5
maybe BU is considering bringing fball back and those who voted BU into the PL know it Zero chance of this. |
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Post by hcpride on Aug 2, 2017 14:37:43 GMT -5
BU has obviously made the calculation that football is expensive and does nothing to add to a school's academic reputation. FWIW selection rate and required board scores at BU now essentially blow away Holy Cross stats. www.bu.edu/today/2017/bu-admissions-more-selective/ |
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 2, 2017 16:03:21 GMT -5
Most impressive! What struck me was over 60,000 applicants but what struck me even more was that the incoming freshman class far exceeds the total number of Holy Cross students on Mt. St. James. I ask again, why are they in the Patriot League?! No doubt an excellent university but . . .
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Post by hcpride on Aug 2, 2017 16:14:35 GMT -5
I don't see an issue.
(At the public high school level given open tryouts from a much larger and non-recruited student body there would undoubtedly be competition issues with much smaller schools.)
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Post by sarasota on Aug 2, 2017 19:02:53 GMT -5
BU has obviously made the calculation that football is expensive and does nothing to add to a school's academic reputation. FWIW selection rate and required board scores at BU now essentially blow away Holy Cross stats. www.bu.edu/today/2017/bu-admissions-more-selective/The Comments to the article are interesting. Interesting to note that if it is true that today's applicants apply to twice as many colleges as in the past, this will automatically reduce colleges' acceptance rates. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 2, 2017 19:35:11 GMT -5
BU has obviously made the calculation that football is expensive and does nothing to add to a school's academic reputation. FWIW selection rate and required board scores at BU now essentially blow away Holy Cross stats. www.bu.edu/today/2017/bu-admissions-more-selective/The Comments to the article are interesting. Interesting to note that if it is true that today's applicants apply to twice as many colleges as in the past, this will automatically reduce colleges' acceptance rates. Not necessarily--you also have to take the change in yield into account |
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Post by hcpride on Aug 3, 2017 5:32:34 GMT -5
BU has obviously made the calculation that football is expensive and does nothing to add to a school's academic reputation. FWIW selection rate and required board scores at BU now essentially blow away Holy Cross stats. www.bu.edu/today/2017/bu-admissions-more-selective/The Comments to the article are interesting. Interesting to note that if it is true that today's applicants apply to twice as many colleges as in the past, this will automatically reduce colleges' acceptance rates. Many comments to the article predictably note that applicant tendencies towards more and more applications impact (to one degree or another) BU's applicant total. Some noted other factors beyond the generic applicant trend are at play at BU. The article itself includes a chart showing the last 15 years and the decreasing selectivity total is indeed impressive (notwithstanding applicant tendencies). The article notes a 25% selectivity (college acceptance rate) now at BU. That is similarly impressive (notwithstanding applicant tendencies). HC, for what it is worth, does not show anything like the BU decreasing selectivity trend (notwithstanding applicant tendencies). HC: 2015: 37%, 2016: 38%, 2017: 39%. You could somewhat compare/contrast the trend at BU in terms of selectivity (via applicant total) to that of BC: htmldbprod.bc.edu/prd/f?p=factbook:1:0 Finally, the article notes the BU accepted student ACT average is 32. Identical to BC. HC, for what it is worth, has a TEST SCORE OPTIONAL ACT average of 29. Not even close. (As a reminder, the HC TEST SCORE OPTIONAL statistic is derived only from the average of the stronger HC applicants - those MOST likely to submit test scores) (There once was a time when it was easier to gain admission at BU than Holy Cross. Those times certainly have changed.) |
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Post by somedaycamesuddenly on Aug 3, 2017 8:02:31 GMT -5
BU has done a really job this past decade in making the university as competitive as possible. The university has made great strides in important metrics such as its US News rankings and the common data set numbers have been continually increasing in regards to class rank, gpa, and SAT/ACT. Here are the 2016-2017 common data sets: www.bu.edu/oir/files/2017/07/cds-2017.pdfRegardless, I agree that BU shouldn't really be in the Patriot League (I would prefer the CAA which the administration decided against). In general, BU isn't really going after the same student's as Holy Cross. BU has a much more national class of students and is going after the same pool of students as NYU, Northeastern, Syracuse, BC, George Washington, Miami, USC, Rochester and some large public flagships compared to Holy Cross which is competing for primarily east coast kids that want to go to selective LAC's. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 3, 2017 8:10:13 GMT -5
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Post by sarasota on Aug 3, 2017 8:20:48 GMT -5
The terms of "The Turnpike Trophy" ought to be (quietly) changed to concern only mens and womens basketball.
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Post by ncaam on Aug 3, 2017 8:26:58 GMT -5
Should be discontinued immediately. Decision to do it naivete on part of AD new to the territory. Where was marketing team on this decision?
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 3, 2017 8:30:01 GMT -5
Agree with all the bold-faced. I also agree that HC is going after students who want a selective LAC school, which I don't see BU being. While it hurts to read, the proof is in the pudding that HC students come primarily from east coast kids as efforts to "go national" have not yet been successful. In part, I think, that BU can get more countrywide students because their location and name, "Boston." People across the country have no idea where Worcester is, except in New England and parts of the northeast. Kids know generic-Boston as the place where Harvard and M.I.T. are (and, distressingly, BC) and even Tufts and Northeastern. If you can't get into Harvard or M.I.T. but still want that Boston-connection, you've got a very good school in BU. So, why is BU in the PL? No football. A relatively gigantic university. Other than being a good academic school, no affinity with the rest of the PL (of course, some will argue, HC doesn't belong in the "Pennsylvania League" either). Why would a kid from California or Oregon or Texas or Alabama want to go to Holy Cross? Jesuit/Catholic will turn off as many, or more, than it turns on. Great education (we all agree, the best!  ) but there are so many other schools rated as high or better. Going to Worcester? Note how often HC materials de-emphasize Worcester but rather speak about being "outside of Boston" or "close to Boston." We are a niche school that does a great job for that coterie. But unless and until Holy Cross athletics can get the brand out nationally, we will be the proverbial lantern covered by the bushel basket. |
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Post by matunuck on Aug 3, 2017 9:27:43 GMT -5
I'm not going to give our admissions office a pass and blame our inability to grow or geographically diversify HC's applicant pool on the City of Worcester (despite the foolishness of its politicians). Our admissions process needs a complete independent review with the majority of reviewers having no role in previous decisions.
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1. Ann McD will not be around if this scenario would even hypothetically happen [and if she was, she wouldn't conceive of answering that way]. 2. If HC changed to FBS, Ann would not be either "triumphant" or "exulting."
) but there are so many other schools rated as high or better. Going to Worcester? Note how often HC materials de-emphasize Worcester but rather speak about being "outside of Boston" or "close to Boston."