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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 8:19:08 GMT -5
Holy Cross is again a "More Selective" Tie-33rd in the National LAC category.(here)
Going backward I believe we have been T-33 (last year), 32, 34, 32. So we are holding steady in the top 35.
Since our competitor/cross applicants institutions are not in this (National LAC) category, relative comparisons are a bit difficult.
The usual media and college folks are praising and condemning these well-known ratings.
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Post by nhteamer on Sept 12, 2017 8:42:22 GMT -5
A significant part of the USN&WR ratings is"peer reputations." I dare say those at Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby, Pomoma, Scripts, Harvey Mudd, Grinnell etc., etc., think of Holy Cross in the same way Diane Feinstein thinks about Catholic judges.
I'll bet two tickets to the next Holy Cross- Sacred Heart game (your choice bball or football) that all those overrated NESCAC schools engage in one bid circle jerk when they are polled on their opinion as to the "academic reputation" of other liberal arts colleges.
We need to WANT to be unique
Screw theml
They will never LIKE us.
The very basis of our being threatens their entire world (this world only) view. It is in their best interest to marginalize us; so they do.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 12, 2017 9:27:47 GMT -5
HC, IIRC, refuses to participate in the peer rankings. _______________________ Out of 311 national universities ND 18 GU 20 BC 32 Lehigh 46 Villanova 46 Fordham 61 WPI 61 AU 69
IIRC, Villanova was previously categorized as a regional university. ________________________ Out of 233 National LACs, Colgate 12 USMA 12 USNA 21 Bucknell 33 HC 33 Lafayette 36 Thomas Aquinas 58 (next highest Catholic)
I believe Loyola is in the regional universities list.
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Post by nhteamer on Sept 12, 2017 9:49:34 GMT -5
"IIRC, Villanova was previously categorized as a regional university."
wow; can't imagine what catapulted them to the national scene.............uhmm; I'll think about it and get back to you.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 9:55:30 GMT -5
The "More Selective" Providence College is #1 in Regional Universities North. Scranton (6), Loyola (4), are below them on the list.
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Post by alum on Sept 12, 2017 10:10:33 GMT -5
A significant part of the USN&WR ratings is"peer reputations." I dare say those at Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby, Pomoma, Scripts, Harvey Mudd, Grinnell etc., etc., think of Holy Cross in the same way Diane Feinstein thinks about Catholic judges. I'll bet two tickets to the next Holy Cross- Sacred Heart game (your choice bball or football) that all those overrated NESCAC schools engage in one bid circle jerk when they are polled on their opinion as to the "academic reputation" of other liberal arts colleges. We need to WANT to be unique Screw theml They will never LIKE us. The very basis of our being threatens their entire world (this world only) view. It is in their best interest to marginalize us; so they do. Yup. Peer rankings are 22.5%. From the Politico article I posted yesterday: How U.S. News ranks schools 22.5% Graduation and retention rates 22.5% Undergraduate academic reputation 12.5% Student selectivity 20% Faculty resources 10% Financial resources 5% Alumni giving 7.5% Graduation rate performance NHteamer is right that we are unique and we need to want to be unique. Unfortunately, that uniqueness requires that the College do a good job of communicating what it is all about to prospective students and I, for one, am not convinced that they do that. Bright side--we could be Trinity which is ranked 44th. It is a good school which graduates smart talented people. What do you suppose the problem is? Too much of a jock school? Bad neighborhood? Boring city?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 12, 2017 10:18:16 GMT -5
As always, this tells us everything we need to know
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 12, 2017 10:31:17 GMT -5
"IIRC, Villanova was previously categorized as a regional university." wow; can't imagine what catapulted them to the national scene.............uhmm; I'll think about it and get back to you. Hockey?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 12, 2017 10:37:48 GMT -5
"IIRC, Villanova was previously categorized as a regional university." wow; can't imagine what catapulted them to the national scene.............uhmm; I'll think about it and get back to you. Hockey? I'm guessing not hockey, but can any of our Philadelphia posters tell us if Villanova has built a new Contemplative Center or announced an upcoming Performing Arts Center???
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 12, 2017 10:39:57 GMT -5
Agree with nht, and have been saying the same for years, when 20% - 25% of the ranking has to do with peer ranking, the system is flawed. What do Amherst, Williams, Wellesley, etc know about Holy Cross' academic rigor? I've said it before, I see the administrators at the schools doing the ratings sitting at their desks like they are rating a record from American Bandstand.
Williams - Hmmm. They have strong academics. A good pre-med and pre-law program. I give 'em a 98 Colgate - Hmmm. They have strong academics. A good pre-med and pre-law program. I give 'em a 95 Holy Cross - Hmmm. They have strong academics. A good pre-med and pre-law program. I give 'em a 94
And then to treat that subjective rating number as objective data. So flawed. ________________________
As to Villianova's classification, the classification has to do with graduate degrees offered not how well known the school might be nationally (due to athletics or anything else):
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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 10:53:25 GMT -5
Bright side--we could be Trinity which is ranked 44th. It is a good school which graduates smart talented people. What do you suppose the problem is? Too much of a jock school? Bad neighborhood? Boring city? "Wesleyan also remained steady this year at No. 21, while Trinity College went down a bit from 38 to 44, and Connecticut College climbed from 50 to 46."
IMHO: Kind of a crowded field at this point for those who want (and can afford) a NESCAC LAC. Not usually considered one of the top NESCAC LACs. Of course that still means a very good reputation in larger contexts. Of course it is a very good school that graduates very good kids.
Trinity's response to the drop:
"Kathy Andrews, spokeswoman for Trinity College, said of the college’s slight decline, “While we’re disappointed by the drop in our overall ranking, we’re encouraged that the external audiences that U.S. News polls for the ranking — high school counselors and college leaders — expressed an improved perception of Trinity.”
Andrews said that “in general, we’ve long maintained that these rankings have methodology that is in some way flawed or skewed, and that they provide a very limited picture of an institution.” " (here)
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Post by matunuck on Sept 12, 2017 10:54:44 GMT -5
Doesn't HC admissions claim to know the academic rigor of high schools throughout the country in its applicant screening process? Absent standardized tests of any sort, high school "rigor" is what we largely hang our hat on so-to-speak. Bet there are quite a few schools where their reputation exceeds reality, and on the flip side some good schools hobbled by old perceptions or just pure ignorance of outsiders.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 12, 2017 11:21:15 GMT -5
I'm guessing not hockey, but can any of our Philadelphia posters tell us if Villanova has built a new Contemplative Center or announced an upcoming Performing Arts Center??? I see that big grin. And I'll take that smile right off your face! Villanova HAS ANNOUNCED a new Performing Arts Center. www1.villanova.edu/villanova/media/pressreleases/2017/0912.htmlYou can read the rest of the press release and weep. For the $60 million renovation of the Pavilion, some of the FAQs ought to be of interest to some; i.e., cost of a teardown, poor condition of the 30 year old Pavilion, having an on-campus venue for hoops was critical. finneranpavilion.com/faqs
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 12, 2017 11:40:46 GMT -5
I'm guessing not hockey, but can any of our Philadelphia posters tell us if Villanova has built a new Contemplative Center or announced an upcoming Performing Arts Center??? I see that big grin. And I'll take that smile right off your face! Villanova HAS ANNOUNCED a new Performing Arts Center.www1.villanova.edu/villanova/media/pressreleases/2017/0912.htmlYou can read the rest of the press release and weep. For the $60 million renovation of the Pavilion, some of the FAQs ought to be of interest to some; i.e., cost of a teardown, poor condition of the 30 year old Pavilion, having an on-campus venue for hoops was critical. finneranpavilion.com/faqsOkay, now we're beginning to get a handle on the key factors that contributed to Villanova's climb up the USNWR ladder
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 12, 2017 12:07:36 GMT -5
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Post by matunuck on Sept 12, 2017 12:25:02 GMT -5
Villanova has substantially increased its admissions profile; we've stagnated. And please stop blaming Worcester. We need a Nate Pine for admissions.
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Post by alum on Sept 12, 2017 12:26:23 GMT -5
Bright side--we could be Trinity which is ranked 44th. It is a good school which graduates smart talented people. What do you suppose the problem is? Too much of a jock school? Bad neighborhood? Boring city? "Wesleyan also remained steady this year at No. 21, while Trinity College went down a bit from 38 to 44, and Connecticut College climbed from 50 to 46."
IMHO: Kind of a crowded field at this point for those who want (and can afford) a NESCAC LAC. Not usually considered one of the top NESCAC LACs. Of course that still means a very good reputation in larger contexts. Of course it is a very good school that graduates very good kids.
Trinity's response to the drop:
"Kathy Andrews, spokeswoman for Trinity College, said of the college’s slight decline, “While we’re disappointed by the drop in our overall ranking, we’re encouraged that the external audiences that U.S. News polls for the ranking — high school counselors and college leaders — expressed an improved perception of Trinity.”
Andrews said that “in general, we’ve long maintained that these rankings have methodology that is in some way flawed or skewed, and that they provide a very limited picture of an institution.” " (here)
If you asked me to rate the NESCAC's, I would say Williams Amherst Middlebury Wesleyan Trinity Bates/Bowdoin/Colby--because in my mind they are interchangeable Hamilton Conn (I left Tufts out on purpose because it isn't an LAC) Obviously, my rankings don't match up with the US News one and are based, I suppose, in large part on faulty decades old ideas and on a prejudice against the idea of going to college in Maine. Somewhere along the line, Bowdoin moved up in the pack and became quite popular--it only accepts 15% of applicants--but I don't really know why. The real problem with these rankings is that the only outcomes they test are graduation and retention. They don't test mid career earnings (which would only be probative of what the college was like twenty five years earlier,) graduate and professional school placement (except that anybody can go to law school so unless you use the rankings of the law schools they attend, this stat isn't much,) Rhodes Scholarships, Fulbrights, etc. Maybe we ought to try to find out what percentage of graduates have substance abuse problems and what percentage make friends for life. We all know these things are flawed but can't help ourselves from worrying about them.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 12, 2017 13:08:44 GMT -5
A certain yesteryear class placed five graduates into Harvard Med, and one of them was not named Fauci. When did a HC graduate(s) last matriculate at Harvard Med? Other than Fr. Busam no longer chairing the Biology Dept., what happened to what was a pipeline into the top med schools?
And there is Ted Wells, who is a member of the Harvard Corporation, the ultimate PTB in Cambridge. Are there other up-and-coming individuals like Ted Wells in the HC alumni ranks?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 12, 2017 13:59:30 GMT -5
"Wesleyan also remained steady this year at No. 21, while Trinity College went down a bit from 38 to 44, and Connecticut College climbed from 50 to 46."
IMHO: Kind of a crowded field at this point for those who want (and can afford) a NESCAC LAC. Not usually considered one of the top NESCAC LACs. Of course that still means a very good reputation in larger contexts. Of course it is a very good school that graduates very good kids.
Trinity's response to the drop:
"Kathy Andrews, spokeswoman for Trinity College, said of the college’s slight decline, “While we’re disappointed by the drop in our overall ranking, we’re encouraged that the external audiences that U.S. News polls for the ranking — high school counselors and college leaders — expressed an improved perception of Trinity.”
Andrews said that “in general, we’ve long maintained that these rankings have methodology that is in some way flawed or skewed, and that they provide a very limited picture of an institution.” " (here)
If you asked me to rate the NESCAC's, I would say Williams Amherst Middlebury Wesleyan Trinity Bates/Bowdoin/Colby--because in my mind they are interchangeable Hamilton Conn (I left Tufts out on purpose because it isn't an LAC) Obviously, my rankings don't match up with the US News one and are based, I suppose, in large part on faulty decades old ideas and on a prejudice against the idea of going to college in Maine. Somewhere along the line, Bowdoin moved up in the pack and became quite popular--it only accepts 15% of applicants--but I don't really know why. The real problem with these rankings is that the only outcomes they test are graduation and retention. They don't test mid career earnings (which would only be probative of what the college was like twenty five years earlier,) graduate and professional school placement (except that anybody can go to law school so unless you use the rankings of the law schools they attend, this stat isn't much,) Rhodes Scholarships, Fulbrights, etc. Maybe we ought to try to find out what percentage of graduates have substance abuse problems and what percentage make friends for life. We all know these things are flawed but can't help ourselves from worrying about them. Why the negative opinion on the state of Maine? It's a great place.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 12, 2017 14:01:57 GMT -5
A certain yesteryear class placed five graduates into Harvard Med, and one of them was not named Fauci. When did a HC graduate(s) last matriculate at Harvard Med? Other than Fr. Busam no longer chairing the Biology Dept., what happened to what was a pipeline into the top med schools? And there is Ted Wells, who is a member of the Harvard Corporation, the ultimate PTB in Cambridge. Are there other up-and-coming individuals like Ted Wells in the HC alumni ranks? We have a kid at Harvard Med right now. And recent grads at Brown, Yale and Stanford. We also have scores of high flying young alumni from Finance to MLB to the State Dept and in between. As you well know, it's a different world than 1960. Every school is better staffed and more professional in placing grads. Schools like Wheaton have produced Rhodes Scholars. No more old boy, back room smokey deals to place kids.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 14:33:28 GMT -5
Villanova has substantially increased its admissions profile; we've stagnated. And please stop blaming Worcester. We need a Nate Pine for admissions. Some folks don't yet realize BC/BU/Northeastern have left us in the dust in terms of applicants and their academic qualifications - you can't expect a realization yet that Villanova is doing the same. FWIW last year Villanova was ranked 50th in National Universities USNWR, this year it is 46 in the same category.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 14:45:30 GMT -5
If you asked me to rate the NESCAC's, I would say Williams Amherst Middlebury Wesleyan Trinity Bates/Bowdoin/Colby--because in my mind they are interchangeable Hamilton Conn (I left Tufts out on purpose because it isn't an LAC) Obviously, my rankings don't match up with the US News one and are based, I suppose, in large part on faulty decades old ideas and on a prejudice against the idea of going to college in Maine. Somewhere along the line, Bowdoin moved up in the pack and became quite popular--it only accepts 15% of applicants--but I don't really know why. The real problem with these rankings is that the only outcomes they test are graduation and retention. They don't test mid career earnings (which would only be probative of what the college was like twenty five years earlier,) graduate and professional school placement (except that anybody can go to law school so unless you use the rankings of the law schools they attend, this stat isn't much,) Rhodes Scholarships, Fulbrights, etc. Maybe we ought to try to find out what percentage of graduates have substance abuse problems and what percentage make friends for life. We all know these things are flawed but can't help ourselves from worrying about them. The old time Trinity grads/fans must be a bit shocked (if they have not been paying attention) at both the Connecticut College 46 and the Trinity 44.
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Post by crossbball13 on Sept 12, 2017 18:14:20 GMT -5
A certain yesteryear class placed five graduates into Harvard Med, and one of them was not named Fauci. When did a HC graduate(s) last matriculate at Harvard Med? Other than Fr. Busam no longer chairing the Biology Dept., what happened to what was a pipeline into the top med schools? And there is Ted Wells, who is a member of the Harvard Corporation, the ultimate PTB in Cambridge. Are there other up-and-coming individuals like Ted Wells in the HC alumni ranks? Definitely not a medical guy and I'm sure Harvard is the best. However anyone I ask at hc from mass wants to go to mass med in Worcester. You know why. Hc places plenty there. They do ok.
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Post by crossbball13 on Sept 12, 2017 18:15:42 GMT -5
Villanova has substantially increased its admissions profile; we've stagnated. And please stop blaming Worcester. We need a Nate Pine for admissions. Some folks don't yet realize BC/BU/Northeastern have left us in the dust in terms of applicants and their academic qualifications - you can't expect a realization yet that Villanova is doing the same. FWIW last year Villanova was ranked 50th in National Universities USNWR, this year it is 46 in the same category. Hm where are those 3 colleges located? Any correlation?
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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 18:32:39 GMT -5
Some folks don't yet realize BC/BU/Northeastern have left us in the dust in terms of applicants and their academic qualifications - you can't expect a realization yet that Villanova is doing the same. FWIW last year Villanova was ranked 50th in National Universities USNWR, this year it is 46 in the same category. Hm where are those 3 colleges located? Any correlation? Hmm, haven't they always been in Boston? Hasn't Villanova always been in Philadelphia?
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