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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 16, 2017 8:09:29 GMT -5
Some valid points Dave, but while a 10 year old kid may not care who HC plays, their father who drives him to the game does. But where are those 10 year old kids now? You know as well as I do that they are far and few between at the Hart for hoop games (HC hockey draws a lot more kids), however UMass draws a LOT of kids for example, though they stink and have barely been watchable since Chaz Williams left, and part of the reason is UM plays conference schools the casual sports fan has heard of.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 16, 2017 8:34:10 GMT -5
Prov is not considered "metro Boston", never has, and never will, by any measure whatsover other than yours. Providence is 50 miles from Boston, Worcester 48. Providence has its own MSA, and Worcester has its own MSA. Neither are part of the Boston SMSA. Both are part of the Boston CSA, which is why I phrased it as Greater, Greater Boston. I am referring to population, not media markets.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 16, 2017 10:42:52 GMT -5
In my opinion, media market is a key factor and one of several factors that conspire to hurt HC's fortunes. Is there any doubt that PC gets more exposure on Providence televisons channels than HC does on Boston ones?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 16, 2017 12:05:20 GMT -5
In my opinion, media market is a key factor and one of several factors that conspire to hurt HC's fortunes. Is there any doubt that PC gets more exposure on Providence televisons channels than HC does on Boston ones? Yes, its a big, big advantage for PC. But there is nothing that HC, or BC for that matter, can do with respect to the Boston media market. Look at the newspapers' coverage priorities: professional sports, then high school sports, then college sports (the latter as space allows). IMO, other than NYC, the Boston media market is the worst for college sports in the country. The T&G is owned by Gatehouse Media, whose HQ is apparently Dallas TX. According to Gatehouse, they have a fairly large staff in Dallas that prepares news content for the newspapers they own. Little visibility, low exposure = diminished attendance.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 16, 2017 18:04:52 GMT -5
And miss the "You, you, you . . . . on, you!" calls from the excited crowds?
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Post by timholycross on Sept 16, 2017 20:09:48 GMT -5
38,000 folks disagree with this well known idiot. c Because it was Notre Dame...BCs attendance overall is not very good. The 32K cited might be tickets sold, no way is it fannies in the seats. Hoop attendance at HC dipped after the Big East was formed then started up again at the end of the 80s, with a decent team in the MAAC, plus BC/PC/Umass were still coming to town from time to time The Patriot League killed it when scholarships disappeared (...don't get the formation of the Patriot League football conference mixed up with basketball, which Brooks et. al. didn't dare formulate for a good 4-5 years later).
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Post by nhteamer on Sept 18, 2017 8:14:35 GMT -5
Agree 100% NAD
We never had that "signature win:" so close but no cigar.
We are in the PL
Win the PL, play an aggressive OOC slate, win an NCAA (not play in) game. Move on from there.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 18, 2017 8:36:46 GMT -5
Can't be worse than NYC. There are no college football programs. Metro North advertises Army games at West Point pretty persistently (a great place to watch a game), and sports radio often advertises for Rutgers. There aren't even choices. When did Columbia stop playing football? Are you serious? Second poster to bring them up. Nobody cares about Columbia football.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 18, 2017 8:41:56 GMT -5
When did Columbia stop playing football? Are you serious? Second poster to bring them up. Nobody cares about Columbia football. Are you serious? Have you ever attended a game at Columbia? There are quite a few "nobodies" in attendance and many of them are donors of impressive amounts of money to the school. Your statement that "there are no college football programs" in NYC is simply wrong...yet you have no problem insisting you are right making such an error, trying to justify it by saying no one cares. You might be interested to learn that Columbia is important in the Ivy league (someone needs to finish last, after all). Their teams have been less than stellar, but they do exist.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 18, 2017 10:33:27 GMT -5
So donors going to the games and them finishing in last place make them a big deal in NYC? Here's their attendance last year:
4,323 2,367 3,638 1,973 6,044 8,946 3,268 11,233 5,887 3,139
Those numbers challenge HC for even more disappointing numbers. No radio ads. No TV ads. No spots on local news with game highlights or coverage. No hype. Saying they're a major presence in NYC just because Columbia alums care is like saying HC is a national power because this message board still loves them.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 18, 2017 11:20:20 GMT -5
77-28
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Post by beaven302 on Sept 18, 2017 12:06:08 GMT -5
Can't be worse than NYC. There are no college football programs. Metro North advertises Army games at West Point pretty persistently (a great place to watch a game), and sports radio often advertises for Rutgers. There aren't even choices. When did Columbia stop playing football? The unkind might suggest that Columbia stopped playing football decades ago. That said, besides Columbia, the New York City/Long Island area does have Wagner (on Staten Island), Fordham (in the Bronx), and Stony Brook (in Suffolk County) all playing football. What they all have in common is that they are totally ignored by the pro-obsessed NYC news media. (On a typical weekend, Army's team also labors in obscurity.)
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Post by beaven302 on Sept 18, 2017 12:38:08 GMT -5
Are you serious? Second poster to bring them up. Nobody cares about Columbia football. Are you serious? Have you ever attended a game at Columbia? There are quite a few "nobodies" in attendance and many of them are donors of impressive amounts of money to the school. Your statement that "there are no college football programs" in NYC is simply wrong...yet you have no problem insisting you are right making such an error, trying to justify it by saying no one cares. You might be interested to learn that Columbia is important in the Ivy league (someone needs to finish last, after all). Their teams have been less than stellar, but they do exist. I actually did make the trek to upper Manhattan back in the 1980s to watch Columbia lose to HC. The old stadium was a sight to see. Decrepit seating areas beyond the 20- or 30-yard lines were fenced off, and the seats in the south end zone had been pulled out, leaving only the structural frame of the stadium. The men's room was a small, wooden building with a long, low sink serving as a communal urinal for all the gents who felt the call of nature during the game. That said, to say that nobody goes to Columbia games is unfair. Their team does have its loyal, stalwart cohort of fans. In fact according to (possibly inflated) 2014 home attendance statistics available at fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2014.pdf, Columbia wasn't last. For that year, home attendance at Brown was allegedly 5,756; at Cornell, 6647; Dartmouth, 5,549; and Columbia, 5,576. Harvard and Yale led the league with 15,018 and 15,193 respectively. According to this source, HC led the Patriot League in 2014 with 6,748, and Bucknell was dead last with 3,530.
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Post by Tom on Sept 18, 2017 13:23:06 GMT -5
Hard to imagine on this board, but maybe we should just say there is no FBS football in the city and that is all most media outlets care about
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 18, 2017 13:57:30 GMT -5
So donors going to the games and them finishing in last place make them a big deal in NYC? Here's their attendance last year: 4,323 2,367 3,638 1,973 6,044 8,946 3,268 11,233 5,887 3,139 Those numbers challenge HC for even more disappointing numbers. No radio ads. No TV ads. No spots on local news with game highlights or coverage. No hype. Saying they're a major presence in NYC just because Columbia alums care is like saying HC is a national power because this message board still loves them. Well, not at all, actually. If any people were going to those games, I guess there is college football in New York after all...and that was the point. According to what you say, thousands of people do in fact care. These two things seem to disprove your original claim.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 18, 2017 14:19:36 GMT -5
My only claim is that NYC is the worst college sports city. A couple thousand Columbia fans does not prove its status as a premier sports enterprise relative to Rangers, Yankees, Nets, Jets, Giants, Mets, Islanders, and Knicks... or even Rutgers, St. Johns, or Army (the latter three are programs that ARE pushed as being "New York's teams" but still don't see massive local popularity on the scale of SEC or BIG 10 schools).
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 18, 2017 14:22:06 GMT -5
That is certainly a valid point. It is a far better claim than the one you originally made.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 18, 2017 15:57:28 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Sept 18, 2017 17:02:12 GMT -5
And the Hiatt family was integral in the expansion of Dinand....Columbia football has improved lately, Bagnoli left Penn to go there recently. They aren't the Ivy cakewalk in football that they have been for so long.
That being said, NYC has to be right up there as a "non-college sports city." (in terms of supporting D1 football and basketball). Kind of sad as it once was the capital of the college hoops world at one point.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 18, 2017 17:19:51 GMT -5
I believe the Hiatts also built Stein. And the art gallery which will be moving to the PAC.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 18, 2017 17:54:54 GMT -5
This thread has me thinking - what is the most balanced sports city/region in the country (passion for pros and college)? Thought of Philly, with Villanova hoop (and still some interest I think in Big 5 games). No college football interest I guess....I know their pro fans are known for their "passion". Any others that would top them?
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Post by HC92 on Sept 18, 2017 18:22:16 GMT -5
And miss the "You, you, you . . . . on, you!" calls from the excited crowds? My kids are all in the general vicinity of 10 and they would definitely prefer an HC game to a UConn game, mostly because of the "You, you, you . . . Onnnnnn, YOU!" chants.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 18, 2017 18:58:52 GMT -5
This thread has me thinking - what is the most balanced sports city/region in the country (passion for pros and college)? Thought of Philly, with Villanova hoop (and still some interest I think in Big 5 games). No college football interest I guess....I know their pro fans are known for their "passion". Any others that would top them? Good question....Pittsburgh comes to mind...big Steeler/Pirate/Penguins town with University of Pitt (and others). LA is a big Dodger/Laker town with UCLA and USC. Maybe Seattle with Seahawks/Mariners and U Dub....3 top of my head.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 18, 2017 19:21:17 GMT -5
ATL
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 18, 2017 19:50:34 GMT -5
ATL is a good suggestion. I lived there for 6 years and the Bulldogs and Yellow Jackets got lots of coverage in addition to the pro teams
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