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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 9:20:03 GMT -5
Very tough loss to swallow. I respect TG choice to go for it but let’s be honest - there is zero excuse for a blocked PAT to win the game. The loss is on the players. I’m optimistic about this team, we ran the ball well and played pretty well on defense. Glad this was a out of conference game. I hope we learn from mistakes and come back better on special teams next week HC now needs to beat Monmouth and Yale to go over .500 (4-2) ooc. Yale seems to have our number in recent years, but it could be a good game to watch. I wonder how the Big Green will do in the Ivy League? I hope they take it all. That could soften this loss a bit. It was asked if this was worse than the Wagner or Albany. IMO no. They were far worse.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 9:23:33 GMT -5
Did not see the game I am confused Most say they outplayed us Sader1970 says we would win 7 or 8 out of 10 ?? HC was outplayed badly early by the D line on both sids of the ball. However, the stats show it was not necessarily as bad as it looked. Special teams play did cost HC this one. That can (and I believe will) be corrected.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 9:28:03 GMT -5
Did not watch the game but am dumbfounded as to why going for 2 points in OT was the smart call. Folks here have said the defense was gassed - but time of possession was in our favor and they should be in good enough shape to handle this. Yes, the last kick was a mess but we don't trust that unit ever again? As I said, did not watc- any clarity as to why Gilmore took this approach would be appreciated- HC had two kicks in a row (FG and PAT) blocked. The PAT was not a good spot more than the block. If HC had scored, he comeback would have had some labeling the coach a genius (when players perform as expected it does tend to look that say). I agree with going for 2 (as many said we should have done in the multiple OT loss to Harvard some years ago).
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 9:29:32 GMT -5
Btw how great was Peter tonight? Overall, this game may have been his best thus far - considering how often he was running for his life with Dartmouth defenders in pursuit. I felt that last TD drive was a thing of beauty.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 9:32:35 GMT -5
I don't think we beat this Dartmouth team 7-8 out of 10. I think we were lucky that 2nd QB (wildcat plays) didn't play much in second half. We couldn't stop him
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2017 9:40:34 GMT -5
Haha, good one! Overthink? It didn't work and we lost the game Always easy to second guess when it didn't work out, right? Maybe Grady Little should have yanked Wakefield from the ALCS in 2003 so he didn't face Boone!
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 9:41:14 GMT -5
I think we saw him less because HC did start to contain him. His first two times were impressive (and our initial reaction to him the opposite).
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Post by 6sader7 on Sept 24, 2017 9:57:53 GMT -5
I do believe that that was a very good Dartmouth team.
With regard to the PAT:
You absolutely don’t chance the distance of the holder / kicker. As someone who was on PAT I can tell you you practice the exact same way everyttime to get the mechanics and timing down like clockwork.
You don’t call a timeout there and ice your own kicker.
What you do is line up and execute the play the way you have practiced it all week, months, year(s) leading up to it.
If you don’t execute you lose - the loss is on the players the same way that it was in ‘06 at Colgate when we missed two chip shots.
I’m impressed by our ability to put together a 80 yard drive to score the game tying touchdown.
This loss will hurt a lot to these players, how they’re able respond to it will determine what we do the rest of the season. It’s better have this happen week 4 against Dartmouth than week 12 vs Lehigh.
Learn from it and move on - This can not happen again this year
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Post by gks on Sept 24, 2017 10:12:24 GMT -5
Tough loss plain and simple. Tough to overcome turnovers and special team muffs especially on the road vs. a good team. I would expect a complete butt kicking of Lafayette this Saturday.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 24, 2017 10:14:05 GMT -5
Haha, good one! Overthink? It didn't work and we lost the game Always easy to second guess when it didn't work out, right? Maybe Grady Little should have yanked Wakefield from the ALCS in 2003 so he didn't face Boone! I think there were 2 potential moves in that ballgame I don't blame Grady Little for...that one and having Pedro face the first one (or even two) batters in the 8th. Every other one....jeeesh.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 24, 2017 10:17:35 GMT -5
I feel like: We went from a great start ( 2-1 and one of our best wins ever UNH ) to "not so much" and ( one of worst blown games ever ) When my baseball team scored 7 runs in the top of the 9th in a scoreless game only to give up 8 in the bottom of the ninth and lose. We keep finding excruciating ways to give away games ( How many one to four point losses since 2012 ( way too many ) This season may not go so well ( Monmouth, Yale, Colgate and Fordham look like real loss possibilities ) 5-6 would be awful We could be 4-0 ( two close losses as usual and mired at 2-2 ) We seem to win comfortable and lose close ( except Fordham last year !! ) Do any other teams score TDs twice on 4th downs at the end of regulation and OT to tie and still not not win the game by blowing conversions.. Just some random thoughts. I hope we win the next 7 and this is all a forgotten memory. We certainly are capable this year. Like I said we have good players we just do not win our share of games year in and year out. I don't like saying this-ones-a-win, that-ones-a-loss. But I will say this, 6-5 is borderline acceptable, 7-4 is very good and 8-3 is what I would like even better. 9-2 is off the charts.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 10:29:27 GMT -5
Ok, how about this ... I haven't seen the replay, but I'm guessing Dartmouth had 11 very big guys diving up the middle to block that kick. Do we ever practice picking up the ball and flipping it to a tight end who happens to have snuck into the endzone? Just trying to think of a way we win yesterday instead of losing
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 10:31:10 GMT -5
I do believe that that was a very good Dartmouth team. With regard to the PAT: You absolutely don’t chance the distance of the holder / kicker. As someone who was on PAT I can tell you you practice the exact same way everyttime to get the mechanics and timing down like clockwork. You don’t call a timeout there and ice your own kicker. What you do is line up and execute the play the way you have practiced it all week, months, year(s) leading up to it. If you don’t execute you lose - the loss is on the players the same way that it was in ‘06 at Colgate when we missed two chip shots. I’m impressed by our ability to put together a 80 yard drive to score the game tying touchdown. This loss will hurt a lot to these players, how they’re able respond to it will determine what we do the rest of the season. It’s better have this happen week 4 against Dartmouth than week 12 vs Lehigh. Learn from it and move on - This can not happen again this year IMHO, I agree. Moving the kicker back changes the angle the defenders can take and may actually open up the kicker more for a block (or injury).
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2017 10:47:52 GMT -5
6sader7 is absolutely correct. By doing something different on a PAT, that unit is more susceptible to making a mistake. Why practice something one way every single practice, and then do it differently one time at a critical moment in a game? Makes no sense.
Sometimes the players simply don't execute. Mistakes happen.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 24, 2017 10:49:11 GMT -5
Very tough loss to swallow. I respect TG choice to go for it but let’s be honest - there is zero excuse for a blocked PAT to win the game. The loss is on the players. I’m optimistic about this team, we ran the ball well and played pretty well on defense. Glad this was a out of conference game. I hope we learn from mistakes and come back better on special teams next week HC now needs to beat Monmouth and Yale to go over .500 (4-2) ooc. Yale seems to have our number in recent years, but it could be a good game to watch. I wonder how the Big Green will do in the Ivy League? I hope they take it all. That could soften this loss a bit. It was asked if this was worse than the Wagner or Albany. IMO no. They were far worse. Yale (an Ivy power this year) and Monmouth (a Patriot League killer this year) will be tough to bet against.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 10:53:02 GMT -5
Yale (an Ivy power this year) and Monmouth (a Patriot League killer this year) will be tough to bet against. FWIW, Massey has HC a favorite by 7 at Fitton against Monmouth and an underdog by 1 (tossup) against Yale at Yale. Interesting. That could change, of course, depending on our game vs Lafayette. Also, he has Yale as a 3 point favorite hosting Dartmouth.
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Post by classof83 on Sept 24, 2017 11:02:11 GMT -5
I watched the the game live on the internet and it looked to me that Wells started early before the ball was snapped on the final PAT. His whole timing was off.
I don't think he was going to make it even if the kick wasn't blocked.
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Post by ncaam on Sept 24, 2017 11:43:06 GMT -5
Very tough loss to swallow. I respect TG choice to go for it but let’s be honest - there is zero excuse for a blocked PAT to win the game. The loss is on the players. I’m optimistic about this team, we ran the ball well and played pretty well on defense. Glad this was a out of conference game. I hope we learn from mistakes and come back better on special teams next week HC now needs to beat Monmouth and Yale to go over .500 (4-2) ooc. Yale seems to have our number in recent years, but it could be a good game to watch. I wonder how the Big Green will do in the Ivy League? I hope they take it all. That could soften this loss a bit. It was asked if this was worse than the Wagner or Albany. IMO no. They were far worse.
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Post by ncaam on Sept 24, 2017 11:43:48 GMT -5
Perhaps moving the holder back gives the defensive corners a better angle at a block.
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Post by realism on Sept 24, 2017 11:53:57 GMT -5
Btw how great was Peter tonight? PP ALERT !! On film, I think it will be obvious how constrained Peter has become when he rolls out. How H.C. game plans increasingly are putting him in pass only situations. ( Remember a couple of seasons ago, when QB draws and PP run-options were every other play ? And posters were talking about how dangerous that was becoming for Peter's body ? ) At the beginning of this year, PP's roll-outs were fluid circular relatively deep--going back more than 5 + yards. Last night, they were mostly only used in the 4th quarter. And then the roll outs were shallower and PP's movement was not circular and smooth-but "peg legged.". He hugged the sideline repeatedly as the game wore on. So the play became a "roll out pass and give yourself an option to get your ass out of bounds and don't run option." Defenders were increasingly aware of how to box him in. And, need I remind you, this was only game # 4 of 11. If there actually are games where H.C. has a sizable lead going into latter stages of the 3rd quarter ( Laffy might be such an opportunity ? ), might it be a good idea to get PP off the field ? I don 't think PP can come back for a 6th year.... So it's a good idea to give a little experience to next year's iteration of this dynasty.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 24, 2017 13:19:28 GMT -5
Speaking of Peter . . . . he's starting to hurt opposing players. In UNH game he decked a potential tackler with a devastating block. Were you able to see on video as he was diving towards the sideline, trying to get a few extra yards on a scramble that he dove into the knees of a Dartmouth player causing that guy to do a 180 degree landing hard and was down for a few minutes. Peter just got up and walked back to the huddle. Did not appear he was trying to hurt the other guy but just trying to get 1 or 2 more needed yards.
It did look like a number of Big Green players got banged up and needed time to recover or limped off. I believe our team is much more physical than in recent years. Not to say we don't catch our own share of injuries but I would much rather see the other team's players hobble off.
McBeath made a few spectacular tackles per usual.
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Post by HCFC45 on Sept 24, 2017 13:22:25 GMT -5
The "fake punt" looked a very smart move by our kicker. Dartmouth sent noone to challenge the kick. The kid realized he was all alone and took off. At least that was the streaming version of the play Being there, here is my sense of what took place:
On the previous punt by HC, I noticed that every Dartmouth player when the ball was snapped turned their backs and ran back for the punt. At that moment I said: "why didn't the punter notice that and run"? It is my sense that the coaching staff saw this from the booth and relayed it down to the field so that on the next punt if the same thing was happening, the punter should just take off. I suppose the player could have done it on his own, which if this is what he did, was very good observation and judgement on his part.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 24, 2017 13:41:18 GMT -5
And, how about a shoutout to Blaise Bell? He struggled as QB but has really come into his own as WR making a number of circus catches in just about every game. Yesterday: 9 catches for 119 yards and 2 TDs.
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Post by realism on Sept 24, 2017 14:03:40 GMT -5
Posters have talked about how much better H.C's running and defense have been. Relative to previous years, that's true. I'm keeping my eye on this relative rushing stat:
Holy Cross 38 carries 172 net yards 4.2 yds per run average ( Pujals 9 carries 25 net yds for a 2.8 yds per run average ) Dartmouth 41 carries for 234 yards, 6.2 yds per run average
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 24, 2017 15:34:23 GMT -5
PP ALERT !! On film, I think it will be obvious how constrained Peter has become when he rolls out. How H.C. game plans increasingly are putting him in pass only situations. ( Remember a couple of seasons ago, when QB draws and PP run-options were every other play ? And posters were talking about how dangerous that was becoming for Peter's body ? ) At the beginning of this year, PP's roll-outs were fluid circular relatively deep--going back more than 5 + yards. Last night, they were mostly only used in the 4th quarter. And then the roll outs were shallower and PP's movement was not circular and smooth-but "peg legged.". He hugged the sideline repeatedly as the game wore on. So the play became a "roll out pass and give yourself an option to get your ass out of bounds and don't run option." Defenders were increasingly aware of how to box him in. And, need I remind you, this was only game # 4 of 11. If there actually are games where H.C. has a sizable lead going into latter stages of the 3rd quarter ( Laffy might be such an opportunity ? ), might it be a good idea to get PP off the field ? I don 't think PP can come back for a 6th year.... So it's a good idea to give a little experience to next year's iteration of this dynasty.Interesting.....
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