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Post by purplehaze on Sept 25, 2017 8:40:09 GMT -5
A car wreck after 4 weeks. overall 7-20 record (6-18 if you consider the full schollie teams) after the 2nd consecutive 1-6 weekend (thanks to Bucknell's game ending fg). Not much time to turn this around as this week's ooc games suddenly look very tough. Colgate and Lehigh imploding on their home fields particularly disappointing. Many staffs did a lot of soul-searching during their Sunday meetings.
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Post by joe on Sept 25, 2017 9:41:02 GMT -5
On the positive side, the Red Sea is unexpectedly parting for us. Let's sneak in a PL Championship while we can.
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Post by dharry13 on Sept 25, 2017 12:20:25 GMT -5
Saturday was a tough way to lose a game, but I still like the way they are playing. Regardless of that outcome - the next two games are games HC should win at home. I know Monmouth will be tough, but I'm of the frame of mind they have to win that game, and should win that game. Why? Because they have one of the best QBs in the country and a D that has improved significantly this year. If HC does what it should, they will be 4-2 heading into a game on the road at Yale with good momentum behind them.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 25, 2017 14:33:37 GMT -5
Agree we can take advantage of an unbelieveably weak PL this year. The bad teams (GT. Lafayette, Bucknell) are really really bad and the two projected good teams (Lehigh and Fordham) seem to be really bad also. We, on the other hand, are not bad compared to the last five years.
We have the most experienced QB in HC history as well as one of our most senior (redshirt and otherwise) teams in recent memory. We beat a mid level CAA team and almost beat a mid to upper level Ivy.
Suggests to me we can beat Lafayette next week and might even be favored v Monmouth.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 25, 2017 14:50:47 GMT -5
I agree on both your final points.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 25, 2017 14:58:40 GMT -5
There seems a consensus that the PL is weaker this season. Certainly the OOC record to date is abysmal. I took a look at the teams' OOC schedules for the last season (complete) and this season (not yet complete) to see what differences are from year to year. I wanted to now if the PL teams were scheduling tougher/easier opponents this season. Some disclaimers: (1) I understand fully that there is a difference between playing at home versus on the road, (2) I know that teams can improve or decline from year to year, (3) I'm looking at the full OOC last year versus YTD this year plus games still to be played. A proper analysis would look at each opponent's ranking for the individual season, but I wanted to look at "programs" as when an AD develops future schedules I don't think he/she can tell whether, say, Yale is going to be really bad in 2016 but good in 2017. With all that in mind, here's how the teams have changed their OOC schedules from last season
Colgate Richmond & Cornell on the schedule both seasons LY Syracuse (#83 in Sagarin LY) & Yale (#219) TY Cal Poly (#185 TY), Buffalo (#113), Furman (#157) Tough to compare 3 opponents versus two, but schedule maybe a little tougher this year
Lehigh Monmouth, Villanova, Penn, Yale on the schedule both seasons LY Princeton (#128) TY Wagner (#218) Setting aside the improvement/decline of the four common teams, I'd conclude that this season's schedule is easier
Bucknell Marist & Cornell on the schedule both seasons LY Duquesne (#163), Charleston Southern (#103), VMI (#193) TY Wm & Mary (#154), Sacred Heart (#216), Monmouth (#190) Looks easier this year: Monmouth balances VMI, Wm & Mary balances Duquesne, Scared Heart much easier than Charleston Southern
Fordham Yale on the schedule both seasons LY Eliz City State (#300+), Penn (#175), Navy (#61), Monmouth (#206) TY Army (#89), Central Conn (#224), Eastern Wash (#126), Bryant (#222) This one's a puzzle
Georgetown Marist, Columbia, Harvard, Princeton on the schedule both seasons LY Davidson (#252) TY Campbell (#240) No difference season to season
Lafayette Princeton & Villanova on the schedule both seasons LY Central Conn (#230), Delaware (#181), Army (#87) TY Monmouth (#190), Sacred Heart (#230), Harvard (#162) Looks easier this season--likely to no avail on the W-L accounting
Holy Cross UNH and Dartmouth on the schedule both seasons LY Morgan State (#248), Harvard (#198), Albany (#149) TY UConn (#130), Monmouth (#190), Yale (#170) Slightly tougher this season
Overall: it doesn't look to me like the PL in composite has changed the strength of its OOC opponents appreciably
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Post by hcpride on Sept 25, 2017 16:38:50 GMT -5
KYCrusader
So is it your conclusion the PL has declined in quality this year?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 25, 2017 16:55:30 GMT -5
I'll let you know when the OOC schedule is completed but it sure looks that way
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 25, 2017 16:59:58 GMT -5
I have to agree. I am not sure what seems to have happened to PL clubs this year, some who who had their way with HC only a year ago.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 25, 2017 17:53:09 GMT -5
The overwhelming favorite to repeat as league champion, Lehigh, has a defense that surrenders an average 553 yards per game. Fordham's defense has given up a total of 2065 yards. In a battle of two 0-3 teams, Furman beats @colgate by 31 points. (For comparison, HC has given up 1503 yards in four games.)
I can understand and appreciate a team losing a star quarterback, an all-world receiver, or even perhaps a star running back, and the offense subsequently sputters, but Lehigh giving up 2211 yards in four games is a collective failure on the part of the defense.
Its not that the three schools that were supposedly fighting it out to be league champion are losing, its that they are losing badly. In the fifth year of scollies, what has happened to PL competitiveness?
A list of guesses as to possible explanations.:
1.) The quality of high school football in several sections of the country is declining, and with it, the quality of the recruiting pool. A player who is now first team all-region might have been third team ten years ago. There were 26,000 fewer high school football players last year, about 2.5 percent, but I haven't found a regional breakout of this. The traditional recruiting pool for some schools has probably shrunk.
2.) Overall, there likely are fewer players with high academics, because their parents often college graduates, forbid them from playing the sport. This further diminishes the pool for the PL/IL
3.) Youth leagues, which helped develop skills in players before high school, may be languishing in certain areas of the country. Its also possible that the quality of high school coaching may not be as good as in the past. (In other sports, AAU and summer leagues can offset this.)
4.) The high levels of need-based financial aid offered by the Ivies make them very competitive with the PL. This could adversely impact the PL, particularly if the pool of high school players with good academics is getting smaller. Ivy roster sizes are 25 percent larger, and they also field JV squads. Ivies also benefit because their financial aid is not dependent on the player continuing to play the sport.
5.) PL roster caps of 90 players place a high premium on recruiting sufficient numbers of quality players. There is little margin for error.
6.) The ability to red shirt is more restricted in the PL.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 25, 2017 19:56:24 GMT -5
I was busy watching CAA football several years back when schollies returned to PL (minus Georgetown) but did someone make an argument that HC would be able to beat out Harvard, Yale, Princeton for quality players with them? Or that the PL would become more competitive with the CAA and actually dominate the NEC with schollies? Or was it more of a move to match Fordham and/or forestall a PL split.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 25, 2017 20:07:17 GMT -5
Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: not necessarily beat out the Ivies but at least be more competitive. Let's face it, any kid who has a real interest in academics will take a lot of convincing NOT to go to Harvard, Yale or Princeton if they have athletic talent. But Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Penn and certainly Columbia might choose to get a full ride at Holy Cross over something less than full financial aid.
Also, yes, be more competitive with CAA, beat the smaller less prestigious leagues and most definitely catch up with Fordham who would have left and basically destroyed the PL football league similarly to what Holy Cross did in basketball when it said it was reinstituting schollies and the rest of the PL could come along or kick HC out of the league. The league blinked for HC in basketball and Fordham for football.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 25, 2017 20:27:34 GMT -5
Thanks sader1970. I guess some of those things have worked out and some perhaps not so much. FWIW I started following little old Stony Brook in 2008...in 2010/2011/2012 they exploded (Brock Jackolski and Miguel Maysonet if those names ring a bell) and have played athletic and exciting (not always winning) football ever since. Of course CAA is very different from PL (especially regarding redshirts, transfers, and NFL aspirations).
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Post by gks on Sept 25, 2017 20:37:30 GMT -5
Why the PL struggles.... 1. Lack of redshirting...see Peter Pujals how a 5th year matters. 2. Roster caps at 90. 3. Is the PL only at 60 scholarships instead of FCS 63? If so this is just plain dumb. Three scholarships make a big difference. 4. Harvard, Yale and Princeton basically giving unlimited scholarships now. HYP probably have around 100-110 equivalencies, more than FBS schools. 5. Anti-athletics attitude at member schools (not counting service academies here).
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Post by hchoops on Sept 25, 2017 20:51:28 GMT -5
Thanks sader1970 . I guess some of those things have worked out and some perhaps not so much. FWIW I started following little old Stony Brook in 2008...in 2010/2011/2012 they exploded (Brock Jackolski and Miguel Maysonet if those names ring a bell) and have played athletic and exciting (not always winning) football ever since. Of course CAA is very different from PL (especially regarding redshirts, transfers, and NFL aspirations). I knew Jackolski, knew of Maysonet very well. Terrific hs and College players
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Post by hc87 on Sept 25, 2017 20:51:41 GMT -5
I'll grant you that the red-shirt issue poses problems in beating the very best (very top CAA, MVFC, strong Ivies etc) of the FCS consistently moving forward...other than that though, we should and could be very competitive at the FCS level with what we have i.e. scholarships, the school itself, facilities etc.
HC football has improved with scholarships back, excuse the metaphor, but you'd have to be blind not to see that. Why the rest of the PL hasn't improved (or seemed to improve this year) is a bit of a mystery. A lot of it has to do with schools either not really going all-in on football (GTown, Lafayette and Bucknell), having "coaching transition issues" (Fordham and Colgate) and/or Lehigh just having one of those years imo
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 25, 2017 21:29:27 GMT -5
Where would we be now if we didn't have scholarships?
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Post by hc87 on Sept 25, 2017 21:40:56 GMT -5
Where would we be now if we didn't have scholarships? Once again, we'd be "Georgetown North"
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Post by hcpride on Sept 25, 2017 21:41:33 GMT -5
KY
If Fordham had left and a smaller PL had no scholarships? Playing 2 or 3 of the weaker Ivies instead of the stronger Ivies, a few Pioneer League teams (Marist, Dayton, Davidson, etc) instead of CAA/NEC, and a full Patriot League schedule.
( Something like Georgetown does now.)
Don't think most fans or the student body would particularly mind this adjustment in scheduling nor would there be much difference in gate attendance.
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Post by realism on Sept 26, 2017 10:37:11 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 26, 2017 22:54:03 GMT -5
KY If Fordham had left and a smaller PL had no scholarships? Playing 2 or 3 of the weaker Ivies instead of the stronger Ivies, a few Pioneer League teams (Marist, Dayton, Davidson, etc) instead of CAA/NEC, and a full Patriot League schedule. ( Something like Georgetown does now.) YAWN
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Post by joe on Sept 27, 2017 5:55:12 GMT -5
Increase schollie limits to that of the CAA and add non-medical red shirting and this would help tremendously.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 27, 2017 6:26:38 GMT -5
Yes. I completely understand that those three additional scholarships make a difference but from a PL school's perspective you have to understand it's like adding six scholarships when you account for Title IX. In an era when budgets on campuses are increasingly type no way this is going to happen, especially for Holy Cross in Colgate the two schools in the pl that also sponsor men's and women's ice hockey. The CAA is largely comprised of much bigger State universities for whom these issues are only a rounding error. Villanova is in a little bit of a unique position in that they don't have hockey and obviously have huge revenue coming in from basketball. Richmond has a two billion-dollar endowment thanks to old southern money being cultivated for years so they have less of a financial crunch than other small private colleges.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 27, 2017 6:43:38 GMT -5
Can't blame a Cross fan like me for gleefully believing we have a shot at the Patriot Championship after 8 years. Many many things have to break right for this to happen and if our PL competition is weaker this year I'll take that every day of the week and twice on Saturdays.
(Of course no HC fan would mind if the entire league swept the Ivy's, CAA, NEC, FBS, ...as long as we are the strongest in the PL)
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Post by hc87 on Oct 1, 2017 0:27:10 GMT -5
The league is hot garbage right now.......losing to everyone far and wide......yeah, joining the PL/Colonial League was a great move (said no one...evah)
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