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Post by td128 on Sept 30, 2017 3:53:52 GMT -5
Anybody know what this is?
“The fourth rule is: Make your opponent (individual/party/group) live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”
What does it mean?
This tactic is genius in its simplicity. The idea is to keep the attention on your opponent by simply peppering them with the ways in which they fail to be perfect. No one is perfect and so the rule is powerful."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 30, 2017 7:50:25 GMT -5
All mascots will eventually be fruits and vegetables if we continue to go down this path as a society.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 30, 2017 8:02:25 GMT -5
Hey, in a world that Dr. Seuss is considered a racist, anything's possible. Wasn't it interesting that the librarian who refused to accept the Dr Seuss books from the First Lady was revealed to have dressed up in a Cat in the Hat outfit some time ago to promote the author to young readers
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Post by alumnusdad on Sept 30, 2017 8:38:15 GMT -5
This makes me want two vomit.... Is your quote Greek for: "Come back with your shield, or on it."?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 30, 2017 9:18:55 GMT -5
Anybody know what this is? “The fourth rule is: Make your opponent (individual/party/group) live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”
What does it mean?
This tactic is genius in its simplicity. The idea is to keep the attention on your opponent by simply peppering them with the ways in which they fail to be perfect. No one is perfect and so the rule is powerful."I'm guessing Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals", a favorite playbook for the Left.
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Post by ncaam on Sept 30, 2017 11:03:41 GMT -5
Final results....
Should HC give up the Crusader mascot? 24 no, 5 yes.
The people, Man, the people are speaking. Will TPTB listen, AND hear?
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 30, 2017 11:06:37 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone is assigned to monitor CROSSPORTS for TPTB? IMHO it would seem to be a logical thing to do if one wants to get the feel (and opinion) of some dedicated alumni.
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Post by ncaam on Sept 30, 2017 11:51:58 GMT -5
What someone could do is provide this data to TPTB in an upcoming email they submit. I sent my email months ago and confirmed it has been added to the debate so I won't be sending a second email.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 30, 2017 12:46:49 GMT -5
Final results.... Should HC give up the Crusader mascot? 24 no, 5 yes. The people, Man, the people are speaking. Will TPTB listen, AND hear? Some of those progressive types might respond that the Crusader mascot/moniker is offensive to some and therefore must go. That poll might be cited as evidence.
I know to rational folks 24-5 might suggest the mascot/moniker stays.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 30, 2017 18:16:42 GMT -5
OK, finally getting back on line after being at Homecoming. Mom told me not to say anything at all if I can't say anything nice, so I will not comment about the football game.
But, as to this thread, and maybe someone else has already posted this elsewhere, I attended the Holy Cross Fund award event this morning in Hogan and Fr. Boroughs was there. He addressed the current discussion about the Crusader mascot. I can only paraphrase what he said but it boils down to this:
I know that most of you have seen my letter about the mascot and I have heard that many think that a decision has already been made - a done deal. I assure you that no decision has been made. I know how important the Crusader is to the Holy Cross community and the group that I have put together will gather input and we will also have a couple of on-campus discussions but no decision will be made by the Board until all of this has been done. He reiterated that the group he put together will make no recommendations as they are a fact-gathering group only.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 1, 2017 17:36:36 GMT -5
OK, finally getting back on line after being at Homecoming. Mom told me not to say anything at all if I can't say anything nice, so I will not comment about the football game. But, as to this thread, and maybe someone else has already posted this elsewhere, I attended the Holy Cross Fund award event this morning in Hogan and Fr. Boroughs was there. He addressed the current discussion about the Crusader mascot. I can only paraphrase what he said but it boils down to this: I know that most of you have seen my letter about the mascot and I have heard that many think that a decision has already been made - a done deal. I assure you that no decision has been made. I know how important the Crusader is to the Holy Cross community and the group that I have put together will gather input and we will also have a couple of on-campus discussions but no decision will be made by the Board until all of this has been done. He reiterated that the group he put together will make no recommendations as they are a fact-gathering group only. I think it fair to predict that at the end of the day, the outcome will not be to keep the status quo. Its not in their nature or interest to do a big review, and then decide ' we aren't changing a thing'.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 1, 2017 17:43:30 GMT -5
All the more reason to pour on the coal. If we can exceed 75% in favor of the Crusader, we might bring on a miracle. Oh, "miracle," is that an "othering" term that needs to be deleted from the College lexicon?
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Post by timholycross on Oct 1, 2017 17:52:31 GMT -5
OK, finally getting back on line after being at Homecoming. Mom told me not to say anything at all if I can't say anything nice, so I will not comment about the football game. But, as to this thread, and maybe someone else has already posted this elsewhere, I attended the Holy Cross Fund award event this morning in Hogan and Fr. Boroughs was there. He addressed the current discussion about the Crusader mascot. I can only paraphrase what he said but it boils down to this: I know that most of you have seen my letter about the mascot and I have heard that many think that a decision has already been made - a done deal. I assure you that no decision has been made. I know how important the Crusader is to the Holy Cross community and the group that I have put together will gather input and we will also have a couple of on-campus discussions but no decision will be made by the Board until all of this has been done. He reiterated that the group he put together will make no recommendations as they are a fact-gathering group only. I think it fair to predict that at the end of the day, the outcome will not be to keep the status quo. Its not in their nature or interest to do a big review, and then decide ' we aren't changing a thing'. Actually there is precedent for doing nothing. When I started at HC they hired Arthur D Little, a consulting firm, to do an in-depth study of HC athletics. I believe the recommendation was to morph athletics into something akin to the NESCAC D3 model. As you know, the study collected (and is still collecting) dust. (edit) Surprised to find out ADL still exists. Have not heard them brought up in any conversation in years.
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 1, 2017 20:17:12 GMT -5
OK, finally getting back on line after being at Homecoming. Mom told me not to say anything at all if I can't say anything nice, so I will not comment about the football game. But, as to this thread, and maybe someone else has already posted this elsewhere, I attended the Holy Cross Fund award event this morning in Hogan and Fr. Boroughs was there. He addressed the current discussion about the Crusader mascot. I can only paraphrase what he said but it boils down to this: I know that most of you have seen my letter about the mascot and I have heard that many think that a decision has already been made - a done deal. I assure you that no decision has been made. I know how important the Crusader is to the Holy Cross community and the group that I have put together will gather input and we will also have a couple of on-campus discussions but no decision will be made by the Board until all of this has been done. He reiterated that the group he put together will make no recommendations as they are a fact-gathering group only. It has not been explained why TPTB feel the need to do this "study". If outsiders have started complaining, that's potentially one thing...depending, of course, on who the outsiders are. On the other hand, if this is an internally ginned up exercise in so-called political correctness, that's something else again entirely. Which is it, President Buroughs?
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Post by CHC8485 on Oct 1, 2017 20:37:50 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Oct 1, 2017 22:06:05 GMT -5
In 2017 the meaning of the word "crusader" is different that it was in the 14th century. Today, a crusader is defined broadly as one who passionately and tirelessly pursues a noble cause. A crusader is a dignified mobilizer of people, someone who "leads a charge" for righteousness, often on behalf of others who may be unable to advocate for themselves. At 1 College Street in Worcester, MA, crusaders are also defined as "Men and Women for Others." Crusaders can be male, female, or anywhere in between, of any sexual orientation, of any political party, of any religious background, of any skin color, and from any walk of life. Crusaders are guided by reason, wit, and a sound moral compass. Crusaders define themselves as being unifiers, not dividers, of people. Over a century ago, this spirit had become so ingrained in the day to day life at Holy Cross that the students decided to capitalized the "c" and officially call themselves Crusaders.
In terms of the Crusader mascot, sword, and shield I will be brief. Iggy, as I believe he is called, is a cartoonish plushie who entertains children and fans at athletic events. He's about as threatening as Chuck E. Cheese or Fozzie Bear. And the sword in question is his! The sword is used solely as a metaphor for fighting on the atheltic fields, with no subtext or allusion toward any kind of ethnic, religious, or political war, past or present, real or imagined. As it is, the shield in this conext is more akin to a family crest than to a weapon of war. It's hard to explain these things without sounding condescending, as to most they are self-evident.
Changing the Holy Cross moniker would feel as foreign to alumni as being asked to change our own birth names, as it is an integral part of our shared identity. If the Holy Cross community is unwilling to act like Crusaders, with a capital "C," and defend the honor of its hallowed cognomen, then perhaps it is no longer worthy of bearing it.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 2, 2017 5:42:44 GMT -5
Its quite possible the college is feeling pressure from other Jesuit colleges and universities, or some of them. Georgetown has a campus in Qatar, and a smaller center in Turkey. Who do you think funds/ed those? Marquette changed its mascot from the Warriors to the Golden Eagles in 1994, leaving Holy Cross as the only Jesuit institution with a 'militaristic' nickname/mascot.
When Georgetown removed the names of Mulledy and McSherry from buildings on campus, the committee that advised the university president took all of two months to study the issue and produce a recommendation. Mulledy and McSherry were named by the institution itself, and the extent there was any/much consideration originally given to the full circumstances of these Jesuits' association with Georgetown has not been revealed (to my knowledge). Similarly, the original decision to name Mulledy at Holy Cross. As for the crusader nickname and mascot, it appears to have grown by student-driven assimilation over the years, without any particular review or study by the college as to its its appropriateness, or what the association is between the college and the nickname..
The Inquisition, which was still active during Ignatius' lifetime, targeted the following populations: Muslims, Jews, and converts to Catholicism (whose fidelity to Catholicism was suspect). The populations targeted by the crusades to the Holy Land were Muslims, Jews, and Orthodox Christians. No institution, even those of the Dominicans, has ever given even a second thought to having Inquisitors as a nickname.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 2, 2017 7:44:02 GMT -5
What religion was behind the Inquisition?
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Post by Tom on Oct 2, 2017 8:08:54 GMT -5
OK, finally getting back on line after being at Homecoming. Mom told me not to say anything at all if I can't say anything nice, so I will not comment about the football game. But, as to this thread, and maybe someone else has already posted this elsewhere, I attended the Holy Cross Fund award event this morning in Hogan and Fr. Boroughs was there. He addressed the current discussion about the Crusader mascot. I can only paraphrase what he said but it boils down to this: I know that most of you have seen my letter about the mascot and I have heard that many think that a decision has already been made - a done deal. I assure you that no decision has been made. I know how important the Crusader is to the Holy Cross community and the group that I have put together will gather input and we will also have a couple of on-campus discussions but no decision will be made by the Board until all of this has been done. He reiterated that the group he put together will make no recommendations as they are a fact-gathering group only. I think it fair to predict that at the end of the day, the outcome will not be to keep the status quo. Its not in their nature or interest to do a big review, and then decide ' we aren't changing a thing'. Perhaps we'll just follow the Mulledy precedent and adopt a double name
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 2, 2017 8:16:52 GMT -5
What religion was behind the Inquisition? The papal bull Dundum ad nostram audientiam was promulgated by Eugene IV on August 8th, 1442. It advocated the complete social separation of Jews and Christians and created a legal basis for the creation of Jewish ghettos in Europe. The papal bull Super Gregem Dominicum August 10 1442 Revokes the privileges of the Castilian Jews and imposes severe restrictions on them. Forbids Castilian Christians to eat, drink, live or bathe with Jews or Muslims and declaring invalid the testimony of Jews or Muslims against Christian. Dum Diversas (English: Until different) is a papal bull issued on 18 June 1452 by Pope Nicholas V. It authorized Afonso V of Portugal to conquer Saracens and pagans and consign them to "perpetual servitude". Pope Calixtus III reiterated the bull in 1456 with Inter Caetera (not to be confused with Alexander VI's), renewed by Pope Sixtus IV in 1481 and Pope Leo X in 1514 with Precelse denotionis. The concept of the consignment of exclusive spheres of influence to certain nation states was extended to the Americas in 1493 by Pope Alexander VI with Inter caetera. There are others, but that's a sufficient sample.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 2, 2017 8:24:20 GMT -5
What role did the Jesuits and Inigo himself play in the Inquisition?
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Post by deep Purple on Oct 2, 2017 8:27:16 GMT -5
The populations targeted by the crusades?? Here's an interesting read by a medieval historian about modern day misconceptions and the popular myth that the crusades were all about raid and plunder. Their main purpose was to save other Christians in the east and to defend Christianity. www.catholicity.com/commentary/madden/03463.html
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 2, 2017 8:30:34 GMT -5
I think it fair to predict that at the end of the day, the outcome will not be to keep the status quo. Its not in their nature or interest to do a big review, and then decide ' we aren't changing a thing'. Perhaps we'll just follow the Mulledy precedent and adopt a double name Its been my prediction that they may keep Crusader, but take away the Knights Templar symbolism. This is an image of Jacques DeMolay, the last head of the Catholic Knights Templar, being burned at the stake in front of Notre Dame in Paris. The Knights Templar were resurrected by the Freemasons, and today, I believe a 33rd degree Mason is a Knight Templar. No practicing Catholic could achieve that rank as a Catholic member of the Masons is denied communion. Before 1983, a Catholic member of the Masons was automatically excommunicated.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 2, 2017 9:37:54 GMT -5
The populations targeted by the crusades?? Here's an interesting read by a medieval historian about modern day misconceptions and the popular myth that the crusades were all about raid and plunder. Their main purpose was to save other Christians in the east and to defend Christianity. www.catholicity.com/commentary/madden/03463.htmlFor the other side of the coin. see: www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4785-crusades-theThe great majority, probably more than 95 percent, of those who went on crusades were illiterate and ignorant. During that period, the only segment of the population that was literate were the religious orders, and only perhaps 10-20 percent of them. It is said that most nobles were illiterate, for literacy gained them nothing. They employed clerks to do the writing and reading. As for the soldiers at arms, these were paid by the nobles, and went and did as the nobles directed. By my reading, the nobles and the soldiers at arms were following the precepts of the religious accompanying them, as they had no other information source. (The religious were typically members of the noble's household.)
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Post by HC92 on Oct 2, 2017 14:37:24 GMT -5
When you go to give your input, the introductory comment from Fr. B provides, in part:
In what ways do you think the Crusader moniker and mascot are appropriate, or inappropriate, representations of the College, given our mission, values and identity?
For our purposes, “moniker” is the name or the word, “Crusader.” When we refer to the “mascot,” we are referring to the visual representations of the character (the knight with the shield and sword), either graphically or as a live character.
The fact that they are viewing the "moniker" and any imagery involving swords and shields as distinct issues makes me want to bet someone a lot of money that, at the end of this process, we will still be called the Crusaders but won't have any mascots or imagery with shields and swords. I would be shocked by any other outcome.
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