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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 12:14:54 GMT -5
Might it be time at his next performance review to set some realistic goals for athletics success at Holy Cross that ADNP should meet? For example perhaps maybe 2 PL championships a year each of the next three years in any sports. Discuss.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 15, 2017 12:18:06 GMT -5
I think this hire is to Pine what Milan Brown was to Dick Regan.
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Post by actualfactual on Oct 15, 2017 12:39:24 GMT -5
I worry that Pine is more of a development and public relations guy. There's an important place for those skills in the AD job but once you have raised money and improved the facilities, you need to win. It's time for Pine to put the right coaches in place to turn around MANY of the teams and to do what's necessary to support those turnarounds. Luth is almost finished. The football stadium seats 9x the student body. The baseball field used to host a pro team. I imagine the DCU center needs some good "content," which high-level college hockey or basketball would provide. Facilities are not holding back most of the other sports, at least in the context of the Patriot League. Alumni (which I am not) have a right to expect success starting very soon, with or without Pine.
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Post by joe on Oct 15, 2017 13:08:21 GMT -5
Firing a coach mid season certainly suggests that NP means business. One would say that it would logically follow that we should be looking at a PL exit, HE for hockey, and renovations of the 3 major venues on campus, and a perhaps a larger presence at the DCU in the interim. I’d also like to see a shift of emphasis toward the major sports and a downgrading to club level for some of the minor sports. Go big or go home.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2017 13:16:58 GMT -5
Firing a coach mid season certainly suggests that NP means business. One would say that it would logically follow that we should be looking at a PL exit, I believe this is not logical at all.
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Post by joe on Oct 15, 2017 13:31:13 GMT -5
Firing a coach mid season certainly suggests that NP means business. One would say that it would logically follow that we should be looking at a PL exit, I believe this is not logical at all. Neither was firing the football coach mid-season, according to some. Looking back some folks felt there was no logic to giving schollies or scheduling FBS schools. But what’s done is done. In for a penny, in for a pound. There’s really only a handful of important big picture items left unaddressed at this point, and league affiliation is certainly one of them. Game day facilities are another. Either we do it now or we do it later. The whole “playing out” of the PL is a fool’s errand. We’re already in rebuilding mode and are about to take some whacks; let’s just do a full out gut job, double down, and if it doesn’t work we’ll have no regrets in 7-10 years.
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Post by Chu Chu on Oct 15, 2017 13:37:36 GMT -5
I worry that Pine is more of a development and public relations guy. There's an important place for those skills in the AD job but once you have raised money and improved the facilities, you need to win. It's time for Pine to put the right coaches in place to turn around MANY of the teams and to do what's necessary to support those turnarounds. Luth is almost finished. The football stadium seats 9x the student body. The baseball field used to host a pro team. I imagine the DCU center needs some good "content," which high-level college hockey or basketball would provide. Facilities are not holding back most of the other sports, at least in the context of the Patriot League. Alumni (which I am not) have a right to expect success starting very soon, with or without Pine. AD Nate Pine has excelled at recruiting and selecting several excellent head coaches for a variety of sports since arriving at Holy Cross. He is most certainly not just "a development and public relations guy", although he has elevated that area as well. His track record suggests he has the confidence and ability to improve our coaching situation. Full steam ahead. Go Cross!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 15, 2017 13:46:56 GMT -5
I worry that Pine is more of a development and public relations guy. There's an important place for those skills in the AD job but once you have raised money and improved the facilities, you need to win. It's time for Pine to put the right coaches in place to turn around MANY of the teams and to do what's necessary to support those turnarounds. Luth is almost finished. The football stadium seats 9x the student body. The baseball field used to host a pro team. I imagine the DCU center needs some good "content," which high-level college hockey or basketball would provide. Facilities are not holding back most of the other sports, at least in the context of the Patriot League. Alumni (which I am not) have a right to expect success starting very soon, with or without Pine. AD Nate Pine has excelled at recruiting and selecting several excellent head coaches for a variety of sports since arriving at Holy Cross. He is most certainly not just "a development and public relations guy", although he has elevated that area as well. His track record suggests he has the confidence and ability to improve our coaching situation. Full steam ahead. Go Cross! What? Excellent coaches like the hockey coach who had still yet to advance in the Atlantic Hockey playoffs? Or any of the other coaches of our programs who are miles away from even competing for PL championships? It was easy to throw money at an unemployed Bill Carmody, and by no metrics has he been an "excellent" coach. Finding a football coach will not be as easy.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 15, 2017 14:06:03 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if ADNP hires Nick Saban, the Nate Haters will judge his hire as a terrible choice
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2017 14:56:20 GMT -5
I am mostly an NP supporter, but would not support hiring Saban
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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 15:14:25 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if ADNP hires Nick Saban, the Nate Haters will judge his hire as a terrible choice What counts is not the pedigrees but team performances. How about winning a PL championship or two. Don’t you agree our overall athletics success is really poor.? Shouldn’t succes and failure be a metric on adnp’s performance review?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 15, 2017 15:26:40 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if ADNP hires Nick Saban, the Nate Haters will judge his hire as a terrible choice What counts is not the pedigrees but team performances. How about winning a PL championship or two. Don’t you agree our overall athletics success is really poor.? Shouldn’t succes and failure be a metric on adnp’s performance review? I'm not arguing with your statement. I am simply saying that there are some who are so opposed to Nate Pine that they will criticize whatever he does. They have lost all sense of objectivity because they are true believers in their cause.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 15:28:41 GMT -5
Sure but don’t they have a right. Not just the football ship are taking on water. Most of the programs taking on water.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2017 15:45:46 GMT -5
AD Nate Pine has excelled at recruiting and selecting several excellent head coaches for a variety of sports since arriving at Holy Cross. He is most certainly not just "a development and public relations guy", although he has elevated that area as well. His track record suggests he has the confidence and ability to improve our coaching situation. Full steam ahead. Go Cross! It was easy to throw money at an unemployed Bill Carmody, and by no metrics has he been an "excellent" coach. (We have been through this before) I am not saying he has been excellent, but one PLC in two years of coaching with few players you recruit is a good start.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 16:20:19 GMT -5
No one is addressing the issue at hand. Should athletic success and failure be part of adnp’s performance review?
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Post by joe on Oct 15, 2017 16:26:54 GMT -5
No one is addressing the issue at hand. Should athletic success and failure be part of adnp’s performance review? I thought this was a rhetorical question. This should be Job 1. Need to define what “athletic success” means across all sports, and apply a time frame to achieve it. PL Championships in hoops and baseball weren’t bad, right? Aren’t there other pure athletic achievements?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 15, 2017 16:34:22 GMT -5
No one is addressing the issue at hand. Should athletic success and failure be part of adnp’s performance review? I am pretty sure the college weights APR and academic achievement higher than team W-L. You may disagree with such a weighting, but it is what is. The college is more interested in the post-graduate achievement of the student athletes in the 40 or 50 years they are in the workforce..
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Post by gks on Oct 15, 2017 16:37:01 GMT -5
If the college weighs APR and academic achievement more than Ws and Ls why did they fire Gilmore? Milan Brown?
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Post by joe on Oct 15, 2017 16:38:18 GMT -5
We’re not talking about the college in general, but rather the athletic director. Ath-le-tic di-rec-tor.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 16:44:59 GMT -5
No one is addressing the issue at hand. Should athletic success and failure be part of adnp’s performance review? I am pretty sure the college weights APR and academic achievement higher than team W-L. You may disagree with such a weighting, but it is what is. The college is more interested in the post-graduate achievement of the student athletes in the 40 or 50 years they are in the workforce.. [b I agree with the academics. So how much weight on team success and what metrics for the AD? If athletic success means nothing, wouldn’t Tom Gilmore still be here?
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Post by joe on Oct 15, 2017 16:51:24 GMT -5
I would speculate that a reasonable metric for ADNP is to consistently have a majority of teams have a winning record, while ensuring that the academic performance of student-atheletes compares to non-student athletes. Obviously there are more variables.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 15, 2017 17:16:08 GMT -5
I am pretty sure the college weights APR and academic achievement higher than team W-L. You may disagree with such a weighting, but it is what is. The college is more interested in the post-graduate achievement of the student athletes in the 40 or 50 years they are in the workforce.. [b I agree with the academics. So how much weight on team success and what metrics for the AD? If athletic success means nothing, wouldn’t Tom Gilmore still be here? Mu expectation is that the college would use a metric for success that would consider the competitiveness of the scheduled opponents and the resources the college has provided to a particular sport. (Football's resources are at about the PL mean. Basketball's resources are significantly above the mean.) For several sports, injuries could be factored into the assessment. E.g., losing badly to Fordham when starting a nth string QB. That CTG and ADNP created schedules where HC is often punching above its weight class means it would he hard / very hard to win 7-8 games in an 11 game schedule, and that would be taken into account.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 17:26:36 GMT -5
Fund raising would be the #2 metric after academics, I assume.
The metric for athletics you posit is very subjective. No wonder CTG lasted so long.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 15, 2017 17:43:01 GMT -5
Fund raising would be the #2 metric after academics, I assume. The metric for athletics you posit is very subjective. No wonder CTG lasted so long. For ADNP, the ability to shake the money tree would be a metric given much weight, but probably lower weight going forward. That the program is in compliance with all NCAA rules would be given significant weight. At the BCS level, there likely would be an unofficial but important metric that the one or more sports that are profit centers continue to produce generous amounts of revenue. That puts great pressure on the AD to have teams win big, and keep the generated revenue flowing in.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 15, 2017 17:54:59 GMT -5
Are six PL championships over three years an acceptable metric in your mind?
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