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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 21, 2017 14:10:52 GMT -5
I'm questioning Nate Pine too, ncaam.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 21, 2017 14:13:47 GMT -5
I'm questioning Nate Pine too, ncaam. "Questioning" is certainly valid, but that is not really the same as demanding NP's immediate firing, is it?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 21, 2017 14:19:52 GMT -5
We will never know what would have happened in the final four games if TG was not undercut. Would we have won the PLC? Doubtful, but we'll never know.
The only thing that we know is that ADNP took this into his own hands when he hired Rock and then fired TG in the middle of a season to give the team to Rock, and the results are a total disaster.
The Seniors deserved better than this for their final four games.
It's about time for someone in "TPTB" to add some checks and balances to decisions in the Athletic Department (perhaps by first bringing in a legit "Sr. Associate AD") and not allow Pine to have total autonomy with this football coaching process.
We just spent $95 freaking million dollars on an indoor football field. They better get this hire right.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 21, 2017 14:34:11 GMT -5
Back from the game. First time ever that I left before the 4th quarter started, so that tells you something. It was 31-7 when I walked out. By the time I got to my car in the garage, Colgate scored again. Listened until I lost the station on the radio but think the scoring stopped as someone posted 41-7 I think.
"The Seniors deserved better than this for their final four games." I disagree. While TG definitely has to take responsibility and he certainly has and this season especially he made some very dubious play calling (or did he? Was it Rock who convinced him to go for the 4th down play that failed? Or the 2 point conversion attempt at Dartmouth?). I agree TG needed to be let go but as to firing him after the Fordham fiasco, he (or Rock?) brought the team back in the beginning of the season to where they played an FBS team mostly even and creamed one of the historically best FCS teams in the country before the wheels fell off.
This is a team laced with not only true seniors but many 5th year seniors that were going to lead us to the promised land, especially with the weak OOC start by the rest of the PL frontrunners. TG did not miss those PATs and FGs. He did not throw over the heads of wide open receivers and he didn't drop the ball when the pass hit them in the hands. The coach is the "supreme leader" but on a team, those 5th year seniors needed to come together. If they hated TG's guts, it was still on them to play for the good of their teammates.
This offense, especially considering the experience and lack of injuries, has been disappointing. Do they "deserve better?" No, they don't. It's on them!
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 21, 2017 14:40:35 GMT -5
We will never know what would have happened in the final four games if TG was not undercut. Would we have won the PLC? Doubtful, but we'll never know. The only thing that we know is that ADNP took this into his own hands when he hired Rock and then fired TG in the middle of a season to give the team to Rock, and the results are a total disaster. The Seniors deserved better than this for their final four games. It's about time for someone in "TPTB" to add some checks and balances to decisions in the Athletic Department (perhaps by first bringing in a legit "Sr. Associate AD") and not allow Pine to have total autonomy with this football coaching process. We just spent $95 freaking million dollars on an indoor football field. They better get this hire right. I like your patience, judging the results to be a "disaster' after one whole game under an interim head coach. Yes, "they" (and ADNP especially) better get this one right.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 21, 2017 15:06:49 GMT -5
Not sure if this will come through accurately but I’ll do my best. The mistake Nate pine made was in not firing Tom Gilmore three years ago before or I should say after the Lehigh debacle at Lehigh. Tom Gilmore was a Dick Reagan hire, but when Nate pine extended Tom Gilmore it became his hire. Coach rock is sitting on a pile of you know what. This is not his fault. This is all on Tom Gilmore and Nate Pine. By the way if sons of Va and bbc are liking my post that says a lot for the post, Because we seldom agree on things.
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Post by lou on Oct 21, 2017 15:13:21 GMT -5
Not sure if this will come through accurately but I’ll do my best. The mistake Nate pine made was in not firing Tom Gilmore three years ago before or I should say after the Lehigh debacle at Lehigh. Tom Gilmore was a Dick Reagan hire, but when Nate pine extended Tom Gilmore it became his hire. Coach rock is sitting on a pile of you know what. This is not his fault. This is all on Tom Gilmore and Nate Pine. By the way if sons of Va and bbc are liking my post that says a lot for the post, Because we seldom agree on things. I saw Pine at that Lehigh game, he was very upset. He may have been close to making the change at that time
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Post by joe on Oct 21, 2017 15:25:34 GMT -5
I was very happy when Gilmore was extended. I would have sworn we’d be in a better spot right now. We had won the PL in 2009. Things have changed in the PL but then again not that much. I just didn’t see this, and until this year I would have doubled and tripled down on this staff. But this is why I’m not the AD at HC. I clearly haven’t a clue. A month ago we were #25, now we’re barely alive.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 21, 2017 17:39:37 GMT -5
Joe, Sadly you are spot on with that assessment.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 21, 2017 18:44:27 GMT -5
Those who think HC spent 95 Mil on merely a indoor football field obviously haven't toured the entire new facility.
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Post by spenser on Oct 21, 2017 19:13:15 GMT -5
Thank you! The new facility is an indoor field, bb practice court, training and weight facilities. And more. It’s magnificent and will serve all sports NP deserves a lot of credit for getting this built.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 21, 2017 19:23:52 GMT -5
spenser, for you and others who double post, here's how to delete one:
1. go to the "gear" icon in the upper right of your post and click 2. scroll down to "delete post" and click 3. a box will appear and asks you again if you want to delete the post, click on "delete post" and you are done.
We have some experienced posters who semi-regularly post twice or three times, so you are not the only one.
Hope this helps.
It usually happens to me when using my iPhone and when the connection is spotty and you think the original didn't take, when it did but just a delay.
Good luck!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 21, 2017 19:25:06 GMT -5
Those who think HC spent 95 Mil on merely a indoor football field obviously haven't toured the entire new facility. Obviously the indoor football field didn't cost $95M, but the football field meant we would do next to nothing for the basketball arena (premier sport) and hockey (sport we are supposedly trying to get into the Hockey East).
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 21, 2017 19:42:20 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 21, 2017 20:00:44 GMT -5
"In the two and a half years that I've been here, I thought our guys practiced and prepared as well as I've seen." Sounds like a guy who really had his Head Coach's back. Not.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 21, 2017 20:12:11 GMT -5
In his defense, very difficult spot for him.
Not defending him, but picking on Rock as interim coach is like shooting fish in a barrel at this point.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 22, 2017 7:07:31 GMT -5
What a ridiculous comment -- "I thought we had the best week of practice in the two and a half years I've been here." Reading between the lines, Rock is saying TG needed to be fired and him the head coach for the team to get better.
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Post by joe on Oct 22, 2017 7:14:42 GMT -5
So why the blowout loss? Reading between the lines even more, one would ask if the best a team who practices great all week can do is a blow out loss, we’re really in sad shape. I’d rather hear that we were down emotionally, tough week, didn’t play hard, made mistakes, coaches take some blame, etc. - you know, go that route with it.
Next man up.
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Post by td128 on Oct 22, 2017 7:20:16 GMT -5
We are neither that far away from having a very good program nor so strong that we are not capable of embarrassing ourselves. The challenge is in making sure that everybody -- and I mean everybody -- is on the same page and pulling in the same direction. Without that dynamic, the necessary positive emotion gets quickly drained and the ugly results displayed the last few weekends are put out there for all to see. If we make an extra point and hit a wide (by 15 yards) open tight end late in the 3rd quarter of Homecoming, we're likely 4-1 and not 2-3 and then . . . and if my aunt had you know what, she'd be my uncle but in this day and age . . . well, you get my point . . .
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Post by joe on Oct 22, 2017 7:31:29 GMT -5
In my unfortunate experience, in situations like these, a player can go through all the motions of practicing, watching film, lifting, meetings, treating injuries, etc., but at a certain point he is doing so with an extinguished flame. At a certain point, it becomes a deal where you’ve shifted focus to grades and exams, and doing what you need to do to keep you education/scholarship intact. A person can only take so much with regard to a game. I hope I’m saying this in decent and respectful enough terms. I think perhaps the 4th and 5th years are looking toward life after football, and the underclassman looking toward 2018, if not at transfer opportunities. Coaches meanwhile are making calls and polishing resumes.
In terms of HC dropping football, there is nothing irrational about that conversation, but I think it’s a waste of time, considering HC’s alleged re-commitment to the sport. In other words, we’d have let the rest of the 2017 season rot on the vine if that were seriously being considered, not canned a coach halfway through to get a leg up on brining in someone new.
Program needs to be gutted to the studs and rebuilt. Need to get out of the PL now. NOW! Use a promise of this as part of a strategy for landing a really good coach. Figure out a better place or go independent again and max out schollies and redshirting. We’re going to have some rough times as a program, would rather re-emerge as something more than champions of an irrelevant conference.
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Post by spenser on Oct 22, 2017 7:37:07 GMT -5
I’m all for getting out of the PL. The question becomes where do you go. Confrence membership seems necessary. Independent? I really don’t know. It’s a lousy league, at least in football. But what is a better course. I’d be interested in people’s thought.
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Post by joe on Oct 22, 2017 7:41:59 GMT -5
I’m all for getting out of the PL. The question becomes where do you go. Confrence membership seems necessary. Independent? I really don’t know. It’s a lousy league, at least in football. But what is a better course. I’d be interested in people’s thought. Options: 1. Go Independent. No AI, no schollie limit, redshirting galore. Schedule the same kinda schools we schedule now. FCS playoff bid would have to be merit based. Need help from admissions. 2. Join CAA or other and be bottom feeder. 3. Go FBS and implode as a program. 4. Go D3 and do really well. 5. Drop football and move on with your lives. 6. Stay in the PL for another 30 years trying to solve a riddle we’ve failed so solve since 1991.
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Post by spenser on Oct 22, 2017 7:51:40 GMT -5
Good luck with admissions. People at the school tell me that’s the major issue. And we aren’t talking about admitting people who can’t make it.
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Post by joe on Oct 22, 2017 7:59:45 GMT -5
Good luck with admissions. People at the school tell me that’s the major issue. And we aren’t talking about admitting people who can’t make it. Yeah we’ll that’s a problem. You’re not going to find an established coach accept that burden. HC will need to make guarantees (more than lip service) to a new coach with regard to helping to get students into the school. Even then, there is still an AI. Need administrative support and a clean and friendly break from the PL. I think Fordham is a partner in these endeavors and will do whatever we do, if it means elevating our respective brands, and being Jesuit, they are wonderful brothers-in-arms for us. .
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Post by hcgrad94 on Oct 22, 2017 8:26:25 GMT -5
Things seem aligned for us to make a go of FB right now. Building will attract kids and also help w player development thanks to indoor field and weight room. We have 60 scholarships. We have an AD who has connections throughout college FB and should help us land a good coach. If, with all this in place, we cant win in the next few years, I have to wonder what we are doing w FB.
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