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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2017 11:44:13 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Colgate is ranked higher than Holy Cross academically every.single.year. Doesn't that depend on the group doing the ranking and their parameters?
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Post by realism on Oct 23, 2017 11:56:09 GMT -5
I don't think HC has any plans or aspirations to leave the Patriot Leagu Saying this...it's not mutually exclusive to say that the PL has severely hurt HC football and hindered HC basketball. The personification of the "Patriot League" is what makes this sports board so interesting. And the P.L.'s apparent omniscient powers would seem to be anathema to a liberal institution like H.C., no ? And here I thought it was Chicken Man who was considered everywhere. " Chicken Maaaaaan ( Patrtiot League )...he's everywhere!!" Get out while the "getting" is good. Attachments:
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 23, 2017 12:00:31 GMT -5
I have a question:
Is Father B and Ann McDermott beyond reproach at this point?
Under their leadership Holy Cross has consistently declined from a purely academic perspective.
Maybe a better sports program could attract more applicants to the school so that we don't have to admit quite so many (39%) and we could get back to the level of selectivity we so pride ourselves upon...
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Post by joe on Oct 23, 2017 12:01:48 GMT -5
Realism I agree. PL has been trying to compete with the IL for decades and has failed, even with scholarships. Academic integrity nothing. It doesn't work. D-O-E-S N-O-T W-O-R-K. It's a loser. A dog. A ship that is sinking. Maybe a ship that has sunk. Get out now. Have some balls Holy Cross. Or will we soon be the Holy Cross "Big Purple" who, despite scholarships and fancy training facilities, consistently finish next to last in the Patriot League? Luth is great, but will only move the dial so much, on it's own. Right now the needle has broken off, in the wrong direction.
Do people really enjoy trekking out to PA and Podunk, NY to watch HC play games in front of 18 fans? As ihoops as said before, our OOC is far more exciting than our PL schedule.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 23, 2017 12:06:04 GMT -5
“The days of mediocrity in HC sports are over.” Vox Board Populi when ADNP was hired.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2017 12:19:15 GMT -5
One can only hope! May it improve soon...and across the board, leaving no sport behind!
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 23, 2017 12:20:04 GMT -5
Purposely ambiguous? Mediocrity over. Meaning getting better or worse?
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2017 12:40:33 GMT -5
Concerning "mediocrity"...didn't Jesus say about those liked not taking a stand something along the lines of "I vomit them from my mouth"?
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 23, 2017 13:00:42 GMT -5
If ADNP wants to make a real impact for this week, and with respect to the recruits on campus or at the GT game, for the future, he would offer to fly in a player from a past team to give a pre-game speech. I still remember a speech from Rob McGovern my freshman year. It was the most intense and electrifying pre-game speech I ever heard - in person or on the internet. I think the guys need a shot in the arm, and it may be someone reminding them of what they represent, why they play (or why they should be playing) and how their performance reflects on the school, the program, and most importantly, their brothers in that room.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 23, 2017 14:42:47 GMT -5
You want fr boroughs to review fb player apps? Of all the things that won’t happen that’s numero uno. This is a function of adnp and Annie. If as we suspect Annie is a road block, adnp should ask each coach to give a couple examples where admissions hurt us. Adnp should then go to Annie and work things out. I love when guys who never played football for HC tell folks how it was, can, or will be, and with such authority. I wish some other former players would step up to the microphone other than 67 (comments always spot on) and a few others, maybe some of the more prolific players from back in the day.
NCAAM - I'm telling you that former presidents have reviewed the transcripts of football players who needed additional consideration, even through the down years of the 90s. There, it's been said, and stated as fact. Seen it. It happened. Do what you want with that information. You're lucky to be getting it.
But to respond, I don't think it would be particularly onerous for Father B, who has long professed to be a supporter of athletics at HC, to sit back with a tall Dunkin' Donuts coffee and take a look at some transcripts a few times during recruiting season, at least until the process gets going. Frankly he'd probably enjoy it. This is how things get done at D1 football schools, even ones with the highest academic reps in the country, and this is how it needs to get done on the hill. No phone calls, no emails, just a few applications with red stickers on them for him to look through, and perhaps a 5 minute face-to-face between the president and the student. After looking at their application, talking to the head coach, talking to them and eye-balling them, Father B will get a good sense as to whether these 16-17 year old boys have what it takes to succeed academically at HC, and whether or not it's worth taking the risk on recommending their admission. And a young man will have a chance to meet with the president and "get the point" that unless he is serious about academics he should walk away now. This is how it gets done, boys.
And can we stop with the condescending and sexist "Annie" talk. From what I know Ann is a nice person. HC football's failure in dealing with admissions is almost certainly multifactorial, and re-evaluating criteria by which prospective football players are admitted on all levels in critical to our success. it won't get done with condescension.
Oh and one other thing, if it is not done already, football players should have the chance to take a full credit course in the summer following the Fr, So, and Jr seasons. This course should be challenging, but tailored to student-athletes. I would imagine some sort organizational management/history course dealing with leadership, organization and business building, etc., so many great possibilities for a motivated faculty or alum. In fact, I'd be happy to run that personally. And it would not be basketweaving, I can assure you. Add that to my previous list.
1. Non-medical redshirting 2. Max allowment of FCS scholarships 3. Discontinue AI, get help from admissions 4. Invest in top tier coaching staff 5. Leave PL 6. Offer full credit summer course for football players 7. If 1-5 are done, revisit program future in 8 years.
Completely agree with all of this post. I think it would be very valuable to have a players council representing a few generations of former players that could collectively serve as a sounding board for NP. Obviously, NP has a job to do and is going to make decisions as he sees fit -- But some perspective (when desired) from guys who have been through a lot of these processes first hand could only serve as an additional resource to him.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2017 15:35:13 GMT -5
I am not sure that anyone would object to input from former HC football players. In fact, it could be a powerful positive influence! That sort of input does not mean that fans who did not play should be silent, does it?
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 23, 2017 15:51:51 GMT -5
I am not sure that anyone would object to input from former HC football players. In fact, it could be a powerful positive influence! That sort of input does not mean that fans who did not play should be silent, does it? I don't believe that it means fans that did not play should be silent - Their objective opinion is certainly needed to prevent thinking from within a vacuum. However, given my signature line, you can probably tell which way I lean on the matter...
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2017 15:55:35 GMT -5
I am glad we are on the same page. I like that signature. Experience can come in many forms. Mine came as a sports writer who watched countless games and spoke with many coaches and ADs. (As has been said about priests who are celibate marriage counselors, "some of the best referees never played the game.") I acknowledge that it from a different perspective, but it was shaped a good deal by what I learned from players themselves.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2017 19:04:08 GMT -5
On a positive note, the Patriot League is higher-ranked than the non-scholarship Pioneer League (Massey Rankings...I know they are not necessarily reliable): Colgate-51, Bucknell-71, Holy Cross-72, Lehigh-80, Fordham 98, Lafayette 101, Georgetown 113 (586) San Diego-50, Drake-79, Butler-84, Campbell 87, Dayton-97, Jacksonville 102, Valparisio-104 (603) www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htmThe team that wins the Patriot League may be better than the team that wins the Pioneer League this year. It is too close to call right now. Love that we're still ranked higher than Lehigh. They are probably going to KILL us in three weeks.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2017 19:17:08 GMT -5
I’m all for getting out of the PL. The question becomes where do you go. Confrence membership seems necessary. Independent? I really don’t know. It’s a lousy league, at least in football. But what is a better course. I’d be interested in people’s thought. Options: 1. Go Independent. No AI, no schollie limit, redshirting galore. Schedule the same kinda schools we schedule now. FCS playoff bid would have to be merit based. Need help from admissions. 2. Join CAA or other and be bottom feeder. 3. Go FBS and implode as a program. 4. Go D3 and do really well. 5. Drop football and move on with your lives. 6. Stay in the PL for another 30 years trying to solve a riddle we’ve failed so solve since 1991. Very well laid out. I think you can really boil those options down to: 1) Stay in the PL and hope that just maybe someday this football scholarship thing will bear fruit. Meanwhile, cross our fingers that we are permanently able to replicate the Willard era on the hardwood and continually maintain our status as the league's flagship hoops school. 2) Try to upgrade all sports into the CAA. Probably the most ideal football landing spot with UNH, Maine, Stony Brook, Albany and URI all local as well as Villanova in the conference. Olympic sports in the CAA would be more travel than the PL with that conference being more Southern-based. Though hopefully Albany and Stony Brook will soon be full CAA members and would help us out there. We could replace BU with Northeastern as our local conference rival. 3) Drop or downgrade football to either the NEC or Pioneer League and join the MAAC for all other sports and try to get into the A-10 the next time that conference wants/needs a new member. Wait, would the NEC still be considered a downgrade?
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Post by breezy on Oct 23, 2017 19:34:29 GMT -5
I do not wish to denigrate anyone, and I recognize that this is a message board where everyone is free to state their opinions -- no matter how far-fetched, inaccurate, or preposterous some other posters (like me) might believe them to be.
I know feelings are raw due to the disappointments of the past several weeks. I offer a modest suggestion -- let's try to calm down a bit, let Nate Pine conduct his search and put our focus on the potential that new leadership will bring to the football program (which will certainly remain in the Patriot League for the foreseeable future and has much to offer our current student-athletes and prospective recruits).
Our new indoor practice facility and expanded strength and conditioning facility is spectacular for the size and program of our school.
Apologies in advance to anyone who feels offended. That is not my intention.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 24, 2017 10:41:38 GMT -5
I do not wish to denigrate anyone, and I recognize that this is a message board where everyone is free to state their opinions -- no matter how far-fetched, inaccurate, or preposterous some other posters (like me) might believe them to be. I know feelings are raw due to the disappointments of the past several weeks. I offer a modest suggestion -- let's try to calm down a bit, let Nate Pine conduct his search and put our focus on the potential that new leadership will bring to the football program (which will certainly remain in the Patriot League for the foreseeable future and has much to offer our current student-athletes and prospective recruits). Our new indoor practice facility and expanded strength and conditioning facility is spectacular for the size and program of our school. Apologies in advance to anyone who feels offended. That is not my intention. Suspect this has built up over MANY years and been exacerbated by the unmet expectations that scholarship spending would bring improvements both to the PL and HC. Most recent and culminating exacerbation was the expectation that our most experienced squad in history and our very experienced coach would finally turn it around - and the exact opposite has occurred. To the point that many are joining the ranks of those who already question the costs and question the benefit of our current program. (To be fair, some analytically and unemotionally question the cost/benefits of HC FCS PL football nowadays regardless of W-L's on the field.)
It is certainly true that that the Luth is quite a construction project. Coolest in the entire Patriot League if you ask me.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 24, 2017 10:45:05 GMT -5
I do not wish to denigrate anyone, and I recognize that this is a message board where everyone is free to state their opinions -- no matter how far-fetched, inaccurate, or preposterous some other posters (like me) might believe them to be. I know feelings are raw due to the disappointments of the past several weeks. I offer a modest suggestion -- let's try to calm down a bit, let Nate Pine conduct his search and put our focus on the potential that new leadership will bring to the football program (which will certainly remain in the Patriot League for the foreseeable future and has much to offer our current student-athletes and prospective recruits). Our new indoor practice facility and expanded strength and conditioning facility is spectacular for the size and program of our school. Apologies in advance to anyone who feels offended. That is not my intention. I don't think anyone is offended by your statements, but there does seem to be a large contingency of people who are close to the program who disagree and think a more drastic change is needed / inevitable. It's not as if your view on the matter is of any more consequence than anyone else here.
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Post by breezy on Oct 24, 2017 11:09:59 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is offended by your statements, but there does seem to be a large contingency of people who are close to the program who disagree and think a more drastic change is needed / inevitable.
It's not as if your view on the matter is of any more consequence than anyone else here. I'm pretty sure that my view of the matter is completely inconsequential, but I'm also pretty sure that "more drastic change" is very unlikely and some of the suggestions that have been made are ridiculous. My suggestion is simple -- let's see what happens when we get new leadership for the football program. Any poster is free to disagree.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 24, 2017 11:16:49 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that my view of the matter is completely inconsequential, but I'm also pretty sure that "more drastic change" is very unlikely and some of the suggestions that have been made are ridiculous. My suggestion is simple -- let's see what happens when we get new leadership for the football program. Any poster is free to disagree. Certainly true that one can wait and see at the end of each year (including this year) .
We just have to trust the process - I guess - that brought us to this point.
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Post by spenser on Oct 24, 2017 11:24:42 GMT -5
Right now the program has to be stableized. It’s in shambles. The current staff seems to be taking a time out on recruiting according to a friend whose son is in the mix
First get a new coach. Right now we are in the PL and will be there for an indeterminate period.
Once the program is stabilized then perhaps go in a different direction. Personally I want out of the PL as much as anyone. But the program is a mess and that has to be felt with first.
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Post by joe on Oct 24, 2017 11:32:39 GMT -5
I politely but adamantly disagree.
I feel like we’ve been trusting the process for quite a while now. If we were at least at a break even .500 I’d say a little more patience is reasonable, but that’s really hard when the overall direction of the program is pointed downward, and a once loyal base of support dwindling, even among the most longtime supporters. I think most of us feel that this is such an important time in the history of program with an almost “here-today-gone-tomorrow” opportunity to re-evaluate our league affiliation, which many see as part and parcel of the program’s downtrend. Common sense tells us that this might be our last chance to get it right, and if we don’t play our hand correctly over the next few weeks to months to a year, it could mark the beginning of the end for the program. I would encourage all fans and alum to be vocal about your feelings toward the state and direction of the program and the Patriot League. There can’t be too much discussion. Patience is good, but often with a result equivalent to burying one’s head in the sand.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 24, 2017 11:50:14 GMT -5
I politely but adamantly disagree. I feel like we’ve been trusting the process for quite a while now. If we were at least at a break even .500 I’d say a little more patience is reasonable, but that’s really hard when the overall direction of the program is pointed downward, and a once loyal base of support dwindling, even among the most longtime supporters. I think most of us feel that this is such an important time in the history of program with an almost “here-today-gone-tomorrow” opportunity to re-evaluate our league affiliation, which many see as part and parcel of the program’s downtrend. Common sense tells us that this might be our last chance to get it right, and if we don’t play our hand correctly over the next few weeks to months to a year, it could mark the beginning of the end for the program. I would encourage all fans and alum to be vocal about your feelings toward the state and direction of the program and the Patriot League. There can’t be too much discussion. Patience is good, but often with a result equivalent to burying one’s head in the sand. spot on.
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Post by HC1843 on Oct 24, 2017 12:09:28 GMT -5
I have a question: Is Father B and Ann McDermott beyond reproach at this point? Under their leadership Holy Cross has consistently declined from a purely academic perspective. Maybe a better sports program could attract more applicants to the school so that we don't have to admit quite so many (39%) and we could get back to the level of selectivity we so pride ourselves upon... I think Ann is more powerful than any HC president: otherwise, we likely would have had seen a change at this spot 10 years ago. Instead, we receive freshly sliced data and press releases in new creative ways every year to show just how great we are doing....nothing to see here folks....things are just fine, even great. Cheers.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 24, 2017 12:26:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that my view of the matter is completely inconsequential, but I'm also pretty sure that "more drastic change" is very unlikely and some of the suggestions that have been made are ridiculous. My suggestion is simple -- let's see what happens when we get new leadership for the football program. Any poster is free to disagree. Give it five years then reevaluate
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