|
Post by Xmassader on Nov 14, 2017 0:55:29 GMT -5
BBC With all due respect, I don’t believe the criteria mentioned in my post were “ridiculous”. First of all, I said that we should look “primarily” at coaches with head coaching experience and with excellent records (not exclusively). Secondly, the criteria mentioned are the opposite of subjective. In fact, they are very objective and directly related to the job and likelihood (not guarantee) of success. Thirdly, the choice of someone without head coaching experience might work out (your Krzyzewski example) or it might not (Sean Kearney or a number of other former Mike Brey assistants) but there is a definite difference between making decisions and making suggestions (over the yrs. I’ve been both an assistant and a head coach) and, IMO, the odds are better (again no guarantee) with someone who has history of success as a decision maker.
The other portion of the criteria that I pointed to is a record of excellence. For every Bill Belichick that you can point to, I can probably point to 5 Nick Sabans or Brian Kellys or Rick Carters. Again, no guarantees but the odds are better.
Isn’t the motto of the College “A Commitment to Excellence”? Why wouldn’t we seek out candidates whose track records are excellent and not just pretty good?
Twelve months ago I’d never heard of either Caruso or Chesney and I have no vested interest in either one. Quite frankly, if there is someone else out there with relatively similar credentials, I’m all for pursuing him as well. What I’m not all for is selecting someone on truly subjective criteria (great interview, HC alum, etc.) that have a limited historical correlation with program excellence.
Just last week I heard Jim Bowden, former MLB general manager talking about the many managerial hires that he had made over the years and said that the 3 best interviewees turned out to be the 3 worst managers that he had hired.
Perhaps previous head coaching experience with an excellent record should not be an absolute standard but it seems like a pretty darn good place to start—particularly when the person/persons making the decision may have limited, if any, coaching experience themselves.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 6:20:45 GMT -5
If he is capable of bringing kids to Worcester, he might be just what the doctor ordered. Anyone ever been to any of the PA schools??? HC is in Worcester.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Nov 14, 2017 6:35:28 GMT -5
As long as HC tries to do the impossible with football, an impossibly talented coach is needed. A coach with limited D1 head coaching experience would only be considered if an established coach cannot be found. The HC job is challenging in ways other jobs aren’t. It’s like selling a hot rod vs a stock car. You have to find just the right buyer, who understands and appreciates the car for what it is. This job is not for everyone, especially someone who has never worked in an intense academic environment. Unless HC or the PL will bend with the times on the various handicaps, this hire has to be more than good. It has to be the hire of a lifetime for Pine. Can’t have someone who needs to cut his teeth or get his D1 sea legs for 3 or 4 seasons.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 14, 2017 6:45:01 GMT -5
Interesting observation. Haven't attended practices but after watching a few games his teams are well coached and his record speaks for itself. Can't imagine he would ever leave assumption fo a coordinator job at HC. It wouid be a question of what's a better way of becoming a 1-aa head coach? D2 head coach or 1aa coordinator? Compensation wouid need to be similar. From what I understand, HC has not approached Chesney at all. Assumption might not be pleased about HC approaching its football coach while the season was still on-going. _________________________________________________ If you look at ADNP's head coaching and his admin hires, there is a notable lack of previous ties to Worcester and HC. I believe the only non Division I coach he has hired is the field hockey coach, and she had several years experience instructing at the summer camps of colleges / universities with top level field hockey programs. The Division I coaches who ran those camps could recommend, highly recommend, or not recommend her to ADNP. ADNP is very big on getting coaches at other schools to say nice things about his new hires. It represents an affirmation of the soundness of his selection. From the announcement of Lindsey Jackson Who would ADNP get to say great things about Chesney?
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 7:03:27 GMT -5
Those hiring affirmations are a trend at all colleges. As strange as they sound the first few times you read them.
Almost anyone will say something positive (and that anyone can be a mentor or an observer or a former player)...one suspects they are crafted by the AD and then signed off.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 14, 2017 7:36:46 GMT -5
Here is the announcement from Marist on hiring Mike Maker from Div III Williams as head hoops coach. There were people on this board touting Maker for HC. For Marist, this was not a leap in the dark with respect to his credentials. www.goredfoxes.com/news/2014/6/17/209523777.aspx
|
|
|
Post by spenser on Nov 14, 2017 7:58:18 GMT -5
Anyone ever been to any of the PA schools??? HC is in Worcester. And Bethlehem makes Worcester look like Paris.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 8:01:01 GMT -5
And Bethlehem makes Worcester look like Paris. HC and Assumption are in the same city (Worcester). If a coach can recruit to Worcester for Assumption one assumes the same coach can recruit to the same city for Holy Cross.
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2017 8:13:50 GMT -5
Perhaps previous head coaching experience with an excellent record should not be an absolute standard but it seems like a pretty darn good place to start—particularly when the person/persons making the decision may have limited, if any, coaching experience themselves. The issue is that if we are using head coaching experience, excellent record, AND interest in the HC job as our starting point, were are then focusing on a very limited population of people. When we are recruiting linebackers, we can’t only be looking for guys who are 6’3, 225, are strong, and can run from sideline to sideline. Those guys aren’t coming to HC, just like coaches with top resumes aren’t coming to HC. The “head coaching experience” criteria in the basketball search after Sean Kearney was fired led us directly to Milan Brown as our basketball coach, and eliminated candidates that would have prevented the basketball program from being where it is now. We need to be very smart about the way we are approaching this search. It can’t be about only looking at people with certain criteria on a piece of paper, or hiring someone with a big name or from sexy schools so we can “win” the press conference and press release. It needs to be about hiring the best coach we can get. Period.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Nov 14, 2017 8:26:46 GMT -5
Money talks. BS walks. Simple as that. We can get whoever we want as a coach if we pony up. Then we start getting the monster linebackers, the 6’6” NFL quarterback, the whole package.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2017 8:27:24 GMT -5
Agree
"need a coach from a big D1 program".......................Sean Kearney
"need a coach with D1 head coach experience..........Milan Brown
"need a coach with a PL/Ivy background so he understands the challenges".........Tom Gilmore
also, "we don't want a coach with Power 5 Conference aspirations who wants to use HC as a stepping stone"............................baloney, THAT'S THE GUY I WANT!
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 14, 2017 8:44:53 GMT -5
And Bethlehem makes Worcester look like Paris. HC and Assumption are in the same city (Worcester). If a coach can recruit to Worcester for Assumption one assumes the same coach can recruit to the same city for Holy Cross.
IIRC, there are 42 players from Massachusetts on the Assumption roster. I don't believe anyone here believes that HC could succeed in Div I football with half the roster coming from Massachusetts. In the rankings of the Top 25 high school programs, the school closest to Worcester is in Philadelphia. www.maxpreps.com/polls/football/xcellent25.htmusatodayhss.com/rankings/expert/boys/football/2017/13
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 8:45:13 GMT -5
Agree "need a coach from a big D1 program".......................Sean Kearney "need a coach with D1 head coach experience..........Milan Brown "need a coach with a PL/Ivy background so he understands the challenges".........Tom Gilmore also, "we don't want a coach with Power 5 Conference aspirations who wants to use HC as a stepping stone"............................baloney, THAT'S THE GUY I WANT! That is the guy I want too...but is that sort of guy willing to take on a potential career-killer? It is a two-way street...our AP will have to sell that guy on our program's potential (not our recent past). That guy will do his due diligence. Turning us around will be a feather in the cap of an up-and-comer. Dominate our FCS competitors for 3 or 4 years and then move onward and upward.
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2017 8:45:55 GMT -5
Agree "need a coach from a big D1 program".......................Sean Kearney "need a coach with D1 head coach experience..........Milan Brown "need a coach with a PL/Ivy background so he understands the challenges".........Tom Gilmore also, "we don't want a coach with Power 5 Conference aspirations who wants to use HC as a stepping stone"............................baloney, THAT'S THE GUY I WANT!Amen! If a Holy Cross coach ends up at a Power 5 Conference, that means that the HC program would be turned around and doing great. A guy who does is an average job at HC is not then going to be moving up the ladder to a 1-A program. Fordham's problem was not hiring current Penn State OC (and future 1-A Head Coach) Joe Moorhead, it was not hiring a good coach to replace him after he had their program humming.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 8:49:49 GMT -5
HC and Assumption are in the same city (Worcester). If a coach can recruit to Worcester for Assumption one assumes the same coach can recruit to the same city for Holy Cross.
IIRC, there are 42 players from Massachusetts on the Assumption roster. I don't believe anyone here believes that HC could succeed in Div I football with half the roster coming from Massachusetts. In the rankings of the Top 25 high school programs, the school closest to Worcester is in Philadelphia. www.maxpreps.com/polls/football/xcellent25.htmusatodayhss.com/rankings/expert/boys/football/2017/13 I've mentioned The Prep before on this site. Wish there was a Jesuit pipeline. Imagine D'Andre Swift in Purple and White (OK, that is a fantasy - he's killing it at Georgia as a frosh this year!).
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2017 8:51:28 GMT -5
HC and Assumption are in the same city (Worcester). If a coach can recruit to Worcester for Assumption one assumes the same coach can recruit to the same city for Holy Cross.
IIRC, there are 42 players from Massachusetts on the Assumption roster. I don't believe anyone here believes that HC could succeed in Div I football with half the roster coming from Massachusetts. In the rankings of the Top 25 high school programs, the school closest to Worcester is in Philadelphia. www.maxpreps.com/polls/football/xcellent25.htmusatodayhss.com/rankings/expert/boys/football/2017/13 Do you think that Chesney wants to recruit the majority of his kids from Massachusetts, or do you think that he does it because it would be silly to try and recruit kids from traditional hotbeds to Assumption because you would be getting kids from so far down on the list that it wouldn't help the program? It's similar to our baseball program trying to recruit Florida and California, despite the vast majority of our players who turn out to be good coming from the Northeast. If you're a very good baseball player in Florida or California, you're not coming to Worcester to play baseball. If you're a good football player in Florida, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, etc. you're not going to Assumption to play football. Chesney has found a formula to turn the program around at Assumption. If he's as good of a coach as some have hinted, he will understand that it is a different formula at HC (arming him with a much higher level of resources & budget and a much higher reputation) and adapt his recruiting to fit that.
|
|
|
Post by inhocsigno on Nov 14, 2017 9:01:15 GMT -5
Chesney may be great or maybe not, but I am not sure why there is such a crowd convinced he should be the top candidate, or even a candidate. The position is desirable to many coaches. I know of at least one current NFL asst coach who is interested in the position. I am not at liberty to disclose who or how I know this. Even with my limited knowledge, I would think that he would be a much better hire than Chesney. In fact, based on his resume, he would be as near a home run as we can expect.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2017 9:10:12 GMT -5
HC is a great job
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 14, 2017 9:25:51 GMT -5
May mean something, may mean nothing, but two of NP's recent twitter followers are Jeff Jagodzinski and Terry Malone.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2017 9:37:20 GMT -5
Jags is from the Bill Clinton School of Dating
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2017 9:43:29 GMT -5
Jags is from the Bill Clinton School of Dating to keep it balanced the Roy Moore school also
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2017 9:48:38 GMT -5
knew I could rely on you 'hoops; my big hearted, HC loving, completely misguided partner on this journey for over a half century.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Nov 14, 2017 9:48:52 GMT -5
All the Assumption talk is amusing.. I think a lot of folks don’t appreciate the difference between D1 and D2 football. HC’s current third teamers would whoop Assumption’s ass 6 days a week and twice on Sundays. Give me a break.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2017 9:52:40 GMT -5
It's similar to our baseball program trying to recruit Florida and California, despite the vast majority of our players who turn out to be good coming from the Northeast. If you're a very good baseball player in Florida or California, you're not coming to Worcester to play baseball. If you're a good football player in Florida, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, etc. you're not going to Assumption to play football. I understand what you're saying, but I would argue that HC baseball and Assumption football are not apples to apples. Some of our top players in recent years have come from outside New England and the Mid-Atlantic for baseball. But, back to HC football...
|
|
|
Post by worcester on Nov 14, 2017 9:52:44 GMT -5
It wouid be a question of what's a better way of becoming a 1-aa head coach? D2 head coach or 1aa coordinator? Compensation wouid need to be similar. From what I understand, HC has not approached Chesney at all. Assumption might not be pleased about HC approaching its football coach while the season was still on-going. _________________________________________________ If you look at ADNP's head coaching and his admin hires, there is a notable lack of previous ties to Worcester and HC. I believe the only non Division I coach he has hired is the field hockey coach, and she had several years experience instructing at the summer camps of colleges / universities with top level field hockey programs. The Division I coaches who ran those camps could recommend, highly recommend, or not recommend her to ADNP. ADNP is very big on getting coaches at other schools to say nice things about his new hires. It represents an affirmation of the soundness of his selection. From the announcement of Lindsey Jackson Who would ADNP get to say great things about Chesney? Any player who has played for him as well as their parents.
|
|