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Post by JRGNYR on Oct 23, 2017 16:04:21 GMT -5
Photos from the game...https://foleyphotography.smugmug.com/Football/College-Football/2017-Season/Colgate-at-Holy-Cross Some nice shots in there. Good work and thanks for posting the link. I'm not crazy about the purple pants with the purple tops, but it's way better than the grays. There's recently been a movement initiated by some at a few institutions to make it illegal to have jerseys and numbers that are too similar in color. It becomes a nightmare for those scoring the game in the press box. Call me a traditionalist, but purple tops, white pants and white numbers at home. Save the purple pants for the road if the home team wants to wear white pants.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 23, 2017 21:52:54 GMT -5
Photos from the game...https://foleyphotography.smugmug.com/Football/College-Football/2017-Season/Colgate-at-Holy-Cross Some nice shots in there. Good work and thanks for posting the link. I'm not crazy about the purple pants with the purple tops, but it's way better than the grays. There's recently been a movement initiated by some at a few institutions to make it illegal to have jerseys and numbers that are too similar in color. It becomes a nightmare for those scoring the game in the press box. Call me a traditionalist, but purple tops, white pants and white numbers at home. Save the purple pants for the road if the home team wants to wear white pants. Tough to get anything good on Saturday...still better than I get at my normal school that I shoot for who has one touchdown in the four games I shot.
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 24, 2017 9:53:30 GMT -5
"Our Admissions position on athletic recruiting is geared towards doing what they can to keep players out rather than doing what they can to get players in." That is very hard to hear, but past actions show that for many years it was true. "Embrace the coming change." The Director of Admissions presumably reports to the President who reports to the Board of Trustees. If the admissions office is being unduly strict in assessing the academic capabilities/achievements of athletes, the President and the Board of Trustees ought to be able to solve the problem without much difficulty, no? Ultimately, the President is responsible for the athletic program, just as he is for all other aspects of the College. Boroughs has been President for a number of years now and the football program continues to be in the tank. I hope those of you who think he'll right the athletic ship are correct. But one might wonder.
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Post by rickii on Oct 24, 2017 11:14:51 GMT -5
"Our Admissions position on athletic recruiting is geared towards doing what they can to keep players out rather than doing what they can to get players in." That is very hard to hear, but past actions show that for many years it was true. "Embrace the coming change." The Director of Admissions presumably reports to the President who reports to the Board of Trustees. If the admissions office is being unduly strict in assessing the academic capabilities/achievements of athletes, the President and the Board of Trustees ought to be able to solve the problem without much difficulty, no? Ultimately, the President is responsible for the athletic program, just as he is for all other aspects of the College. Boroughs has been President for a number of years now and the football program continues to be in the tank. I hope those of you who think he'll right the athletic ship are correct. But one might wonder. I'm speculating/guessing that the by-laws as governed by the PL Council of Presidents ( AIR as formed at the PL's inception ) presumedly dictates some uniform parameters on admissions for student-athletes along with/in concert with the often referenced 'Academic Index' formula. I've never understood that confounded thing but that's just me.
What bothers me, and I think others, is the occasional claim over the years by some here that kids we've recruited were rejected for admission to HC but wound up being admitted to Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell, etcetera. If true, I don't understand that.
As I opined earlier, turning around the entire athletic landscape at HC....NOT just football - after decades of neglect, disinterest, stupidity - CAN NOT be accomplished in a scant 4-5 years. Boroughs and Pine to me seem to have a plan and certainly the LAC is a big, much needed foundation for the immediate future and beyond.
And 67, I respectfully submit that the football program isn't in the tank. As disappointing as things have been under Gilmore, it could have been ALOT worse. Frankly, I've endured the Boisture failure, the '69 Hep season cancelation, the bare-bones early 70's, and the Massucco up's and down's. But just when my interest was waning, along came Rick Carter and a fantastic young staff who immediately made HC a winner. I'm pretty confident that Pine will find a great Head Coach capable of leading a relatively quick return to consistant winning football.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 24, 2017 11:41:15 GMT -5
The Director of Admissions presumably reports to the President who reports to the Board of Trustees. If the admissions office is being unduly strict in assessing the academic capabilities/achievements of athletes, the President and the Board of Trustees ought to be able to solve the problem without much difficulty, no? Ultimately, the President is responsible for the athletic program, just as he is for all other aspects of the College. Boroughs has been President for a number of years now and the football program continues to be in the tank. I hope those of you who think he'll right the athletic ship are correct. But one might wonder. I'm speculating/guessing that the by-laws as governed by the PL Council of Presidents ( AIR as formed at the PL's inception ) presumedly dictates some uniform parameters on admissions for student-athletes along with/in concert with the often referenced 'Academic Index' formula. I've never understood that confounded thing but that's just me.
What bothers me, and I think others, is the occasional claim over the years by some here that kids we've recruited were rejected for admission to HC but wound up being admitted to Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell, etcetera. If true, I don't understand that.
As I opined earlier, turning around the entire athletic landscape at HC....NOT just football - after decades of neglect, disinterest, stupidity - CAN NOT be accomplished in a scant 4-5 years. Boroughs and Pine to me seem to have a plan and certainly the LAC is a big, much needed foundation for the immediate future and beyond.
And 67, I respectfully submit that the football program isn't in the tank. As disappointing as things have been under Gilmore, it could have been ALOT worse. Frankly, I've endured the Boisture failure, the '69 Hep season cancelation, the bare-bones early 70's, and the Massucco up's and down's. But just when my interest was waning, along came Rick Carter and a fantastic young staff who immediately made HC a winner. I'm pretty confident that Pine will find a great Head Coach capable of leading a relatively quick return to consistant winning football.
I agree with much of what you stated with two caveats: 1. Other Patriot League schools are bending over backwards to get kids in who are on the AI fence -- We simply are not. 2. I have never submitted that the football program is in the tank -- I think we've had several mediocre / poor years and that now is as good of a time as any to re-evaluate several facets of the program.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 24, 2017 13:48:46 GMT -5
I can attest to the AI issue. Holy Cross has to submit all the kids for approval, it is my experience that all other PL schools as well as those in the IL looked at the same kid and gave an instant yes to. I do not know if the staff at HC is informed to be cautious with young men's hopes or if other schools had a more liberal or flexible admissions dept. The nod from HC was a week or so process the nod from Brown, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, Penn etc for instance took 1 second and FBS schools the issue never came up. Tier system became an issue at HYP but not yes.no. Good insight here. This was my experience as well -- I had to wait a week for them to review. My point, to summarize, is that during that review period many Applications are being flagged, and a good number of them are being rejected. Keep in mind that this is at the very end of the process typically so there isn't a whole lot of recourse at that point -- I've been told that what this means is that coaches begin their recruiting just assuming that we aren't going to be able to get kids that will get into Lehigh, Lafayette, etc. This is a big problem. Again, these are (generally) well heeled student athletes with solid academics that every other patriot league school is admitting. Our Admissions office takes the position of guilty until proven innocent, whereas the rest of the Patriot League is doing all that they can to get these kids in. You can see how this starts to become a problem. So what we're seeing is Holy Cross consistently falling within the academic rankings while we're simultaneously making it more difficult for student athletes to gain admission -- I'm not sure the recipe is working.
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Post by rickii on Oct 24, 2017 17:28:21 GMT -5
I can attest to the AI issue. Holy Cross has to submit all the kids for approval, it is my experience that all other PL schools as well as those in the IL looked at the same kid and gave an instant yes to. I do not know if the staff at HC is informed to be cautious with young men's hopes or if other schools had a more liberal or flexible admissions dept. The nod from HC was a week or so process the nod from Brown, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, Penn etc for instance took 1 second and FBS schools the issue never came up. Tier system became an issue at HYP but not yes.no. Good insight here. This was my experience as well -- I had to wait a week for them to review. My point, to summarize, is that during that review period many Applications are being flagged, and a good number of them are being rejected. Keep in mind that this is at the very end of the process typically so there isn't a whole lot of recourse at that point -- I've been told that what this means is that coaches begin their recruiting just assuming that we aren't going to be able to get kids that will get into Lehigh, Lafayette, etc. This is a big problem. Again, these are (generally) well heeled student athletes with solid academics that every other patriot league school is admitting. Our Admissions office takes the position of guilty until proven innocent, whereas the rest of the Patriot League is doing all that they can to get these kids in. You can see how this starts to become a problem. So what we're seeing is Holy Cross consistently falling within the academic rankings while we're simultaneously making it more difficult for student athletes to gain admission -- I'm not sure the recipe is working. I find these revelations most disappointing. Let me ask what may be a naive' question....do we have any players who were rejected by Colgate or Fordham ? In other words, does the game work both ways ?
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 24, 2017 17:49:35 GMT -5
I am not aware of any such players.
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Post by Xmassader on Oct 24, 2017 19:55:23 GMT -5
FWIW, when I spoke with FCTG several years ago about several prospective student-athletes in the Midwest, he told me that the admissions office had accepted only 3 of the 33 (3/yr.)allotted “low-low” band players in his (at that time) 11 yrs. He also told me about one player that HC Admissions rejected who became a D-1AA academic All-American defensive lineman at another PL school. I think things may (emphasis on may) have loosened up a bit since ADNP’s arrival but perhaps not enough to put HC on a par with other PL schools. I don’t think that the long-term negative impact of the HC Admissions Office and its Director on HC athletics can be overstated. FCTG’s comments to me and the posts by a current parent and former player (6sader7) are just a few anecdotal examples of a much more widespread issue, particularly in football and men’s basketball.
Without a mandated change in policy from the Board or the President or a near term retirement, I don’t see things changing in the foreseeable future.
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Post by joe on Oct 25, 2017 6:05:14 GMT -5
Agree XMass except for the “mandate.” This should just get handled off-record between the involved parties, whomever they may actually be (president/VP, AD, coach, admissions director).
We’re entitled to be accepting low band applicants and we should be.
By the way, applicants are not as impressed with HC as the administration thinks they are. Kids will happily go elsewhere, do well, beat us on our home field at a later date, and not regret it for a single minute. Or we can keep pretending we’re Harvard or Yale and have a shot nosed elitist attitude. Oh, wait a minute, these kids probably got in to both of those colleges.
The elitism seem so out of context with Jesuit teachings and with how HC alumni generally act, in the real world anyway. You know what? I’m offended by this unfairness. It really needs to change tomorrow.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 25, 2017 6:22:28 GMT -5
Wait....didn't we supposedly have terrific recruiting classes the last two years and the top-ranked recruiting class just this past year in the Patriot League? (It did seem strange not too many of these kids could crack the starting lineup on our pretty weak team in our pretty weak league). Something is not adding up with our recruiting...
I would not assume the HC name impresses the kids more than any other name in PL (or Ivy). It could be the exact opposite. The potential football recruits who have even heard of HC (remember, most are not from Mass.) may not have a positive view of our football program - for obvious reasons. Our academic stats don't impress the academic athletes. As far as football programs go, grads like us have to remember a kid's knowledge may go back about three or four years. Ouch.
There may be a tendency to blame admissions but one suspects our standards, at a macro level, are not above the rest of the PL (or the Ivies).
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Post by Xmassader on Oct 25, 2017 7:52:08 GMT -5
Joe---The "off the record" approach which you have suggested would be the best one if successful. I have reason to believe that it's been tried at least once by a senior administrator other than the President and met with resistance. Perhaps things have improved during Fr. Boroughs' and ADNP's tenures. Although, based on the comments in this thread and elsewhere, I am skeptical.
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 25, 2017 7:58:58 GMT -5
Wait....didn't we supposedly have terrific recruiting classes the last two years and the top-ranked recruiting class just this past year in the Patriot League? (It did seem strange not too many of these kids could crack the starting lineup on our pretty weak team in our pretty weak league). Something is not adding up with our recruiting... I would not assume the HC name impresses the kids more than any other name in PL (or Ivy). It could be the exact opposite. The potential football recruits who have even heard of HC (remember, most are not from Mass.) may not have a positive view of our football program - for obvious reasons. Our academic stats don't impress the academic athletes. As far as football programs go, grads like us have to remember a kid's knowledge may go back about three or four years. Ouch. There may be a tendency to blame admissions but one suspects our standards, at a macro level, are not above the rest of the PL (or the Ivies). There is a lot of growth (skill, maturity, football IQ, speed/strength) between HS football and college (at any level), and more so at this level. The same goes between Freshman and Sophomore years. The fact that we had good recruiting classes and those Freshman and Sophs are not starting is not an indication of anything. There are some Froshs and Sophs on the two deep and several starters/consistent rotation/players. Ideally, we are a program that does not need to rely on Freshmen to play. You view a recruit by their contribution to the program over the 4 years. There are numerous 1st and 2nd years players have contributed already and/or look good to the future. Presumably, they will continue to get better. Riley (starter pre-injury) Crozier - needs more opportunities - can be electric. Bowler - starting guard Ayeni - very good from what i have seen - not listed this week. Lang - looks good on special teams and in 2 deep. Brekke - in 2 deep Foley - in two deep Ebo - in two deep Holloman - in two deep A freshman is now listed as the starting PK. Thank God, he has to be better than what we have had. Based on my limited exposure, I would say that Riley, Crozier, Bowler, Ayeni, Land and Holloman all have ability to be big players for us. That does not mean any of the other underclassmen, whether listed above or not, cannot be the next star for this program.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 25, 2017 8:28:46 GMT -5
Wait....didn't we supposedly have terrific recruiting classes the last two years and the top-ranked recruiting class just this past year in the Patriot League? (It did seem strange not too many of these kids could crack the starting lineup on our pretty weak team in our pretty weak league). Something is not adding up with our recruiting... I would not assume the HC name impresses the kids more than any other name in PL (or Ivy). It could be the exact opposite. The potential football recruits who have even heard of HC (remember, most are not from Mass.) may not have a positive view of our football program - for obvious reasons. Our academic stats don't impress the academic athletes. As far as football programs go, grads like us have to remember a kid's knowledge may go back about three or four years. Ouch. There may be a tendency to blame admissions but one suspects our standards, at a macro level, are not above the rest of the PL (or the Ivies). There is a lot of growth (skill, maturity, football IQ, speed/strength) between HS football and college (at any level), and more so at this level. The same goes between Freshman and Sophomore years. The fact that we had good recruiting classes and those Freshman and Sophs are not starting is not an indication of anything. There are some Froshs and Sophs on the two deep and several starters/consistent rotation/players. Ideally, we are a program that does not need to rely on Freshmen to play. You view a recruit by their contribution to the program over the 4 years. There are numerous 1st and 2nd years players have contributed already and/or look good to the future. Presumably, they will continue to get better. Riley (starter pre-injury) Crozier - needs more opportunities - can be electric. Bowler - starting guard Ayeni - very good from what i have seen - not listed this week. Lang - looks good on special teams and in 2 deep. Brekke - in 2 deep Foley - in two deep Ebo - in two deep Holloman - in two deep A freshman is now listed as the starting PK. Thank God, he has to be better than what we have had. Based on my limited exposure, I would say that Riley, Crozier, Bowler, Ayeni, Land and Holloman all have ability to be big players for us. That does not mean any of the other underclassmen, whether listed above or not, cannot be the next star for this program. Have you reviewed the pre-game notes for Colgate and Holy Cross, for just one example, and contrasted the contributions of the underclassmen?
Senior quarterback Peter Pujals has led the Crusader offense by completing 167 of 307 passes for 1,914 yards and 12 touchdowns. Senior wide out Blaise Bell has posted 35 receptions for 437 yards and five scores, while junior wide receiver Martin Dorsey has caught 24 passes for 360 yards and two touchdowns. Senior tailback Gabe Guild leads the Holy Cross ground game with 275 yards on 60 carries.
On the defensive side of the ball, junior linebacker Ryan Brady leads the team with 76 tackles, three sacks and eight tackles for loss. Senior linebacker Nick McBeath has added 65 tackles, three sacks, nine tackles for loss, two interceptions and a fumble recovery, while senior defensive tackle Jack Kutschke has recorded 31 tackles, three sacks, 10 tackles for loss and two pass breakups.
Colgate
Sophomore tailback Alex Mathews has led the Raiders by rushing 100 times for 451 yards and four touchdowns, while senior tailback James Holland has added 356 yards and three scores on 59 carries. Freshman quarterback Grant Breneman has connected on 82 of 151 passes for 966 yards and 10 touchdowns with just one interception, and junior wide out Owen Rockett has totaled 20 receptions for 219 yards and two scores. Defensively, junior strong safety Alec Wisniewski has made 47 tackles with three interceptions and four pass breakups. Sophomore linebacker Nick Ioanilli is also enjoying a strong season with 46 tackles and two tackles for loss.
Have you seen the game notes for any Columbia games? (An example of a school that turned it around and recruited very well the last two years - I am not suggesting we are like Columbia), Frosh-Sophs are key contributors.
I would have expected many more break-ins of Frosh and Sophs especially at the speed positions at HC - given the weakness of our squad and the purportedly strong recruiting classes.
My general point being that a 2-6 team like HC should have more contributions from underclassmen (if the reportedly strong recruiting classes of the last two years are actually strong recruiting classes). At the FCS - non redshirt level [such as here at HC in previous years] this is frequently the case.
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Post by breezy on Oct 25, 2017 8:42:26 GMT -5
I think I can add a few more to your list --
Knight -- backup LB Daurelle -- backup OL Hicks -- backup DB Jackson -- has played on the DL Degenhardt -- highly rated QB Alexander -- getting reps at RB Johnson -- backup DB Wilkinson -- starter for kickoffs
And there are several other freshmen who will be major contributors starting next year.
There is a good nucleus for future success in the current freshman and sophomore classes. But IHC is right -- growth and development is crucial; it is very unusual that a freshman can come in and be a starter right from the get-go.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 25, 2017 8:45:03 GMT -5
I think I can add a few more to your list -- Knight -- backup LB Daurelle -- backup OL Hicks -- backup DB Jackson -- has played on the DL Degenhardt -- highly rated QB Alexander -- getting reps at RB Johnson -- backup DB Wilkinson -- starter for kickoffs And there are several other freshmen who will be major contributors starting next year. There is a good nucleus for future success in the current freshman and sophomore classes. But IHC is right -- growth and development is crucial; it is very unusual that a freshman can come in and be a starter right from the get-go. My entire point was regarding frosh and sophs. IHC initially responded regarding Frosh and Sophs and then focused on Frosh. Not at all unusual for our opposition this year to have strong (and frequently decisive) contributions from their freshmen and sophomores. Gotta be honest here - we do not.
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 25, 2017 8:58:27 GMT -5
You are reading too much into this. It could mean that Colgate's upperclassmen in those positions are not good or as good. Seniors and Juniors should be starting - conceptually. If a frosh or soph is better, they should be playing. If they are equally talented, a coach would typically go with the older, more experienced player. If a Freshman or Sophomore is not as good as a senior or Junior as of October 2017, does not mean that frosh or soph will not be 2x better by the time they are upperclassmen. Players get better, stronger, etc. over the course of their career.
A new coaching staff could have a different view of the talent and end playing different players next year. I'll wait and see the entirety of a recruit's career before I'll say whether they were good or not.
You are crazy if you don't see that we have some significant talent in the lower classes. How they end up playing over the next 2-3 years will tell.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 25, 2017 9:17:13 GMT -5
It's important not to veer off the course here by splitting hairs with regard to recruiting class player development at this point.
There is a very important point I think needs to come across with regard to the Holy Cross Administration attitude towards football -- They are consistently and intentionally handcuffing the Football program.
Two more anecdotes:
1. In speaking with a former HC coach (who is no longer coaching) this summer, I was told "we can't get the kids the other PAT schools are getting, and the kids that we can get pick HYP over HC almost every time. Think about that, it makes a tremendous amount of sense, and, again - we're consistently at a disadvantage.
2. A HC alumni relations woman pro-actively reached out to me to let me know she was in town and asked if I would be open to meeting her to provide my feedback as an alumnus, etc. I said sure and took her to lunch. She came prepared and asked noted that I gave specifically to the football team as well as to the College overall. She asked how often I go back up to HC (not often at all), what they could do to get me more involved, ADNP efforts (he had just been getting started at this point), etc - All the normal stuff. I told her that I didn't think the school was doing enough to support and promote the football program and she told me point blank that it was not a priority for the Administration and that the school was much more interesting in promoting sports like lacrosse and aligning / rebranding the school as a North East preppy institution.
At one point I said to her "I feel like the HC Administration would be very excited about HC football going 6-5 every season and never really drawing attention to the program" She absolutely agreed with this statement. We talked about the reasons why, and agreed on all of them - They're very much related to cultivating an image of the school, etc.
This was a representative of the school - I actually really appreciated her candor, but to be honest, I was making a very obvious statement. This was a friendly conversation.
The current Administration, for anyone whose not paying attention, absolutely does not want attention drawn to the school via Football. They want to make the final 4 in lacrosse more than they want HC Football playing for a 1-AA national championship. This. is. a. fact.
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Post by nhteamer on Oct 25, 2017 10:01:25 GMT -5
Pathetic, boring excuses
Blah, blah, blah
I am sure there is a guy (or more) on our roster that was rejected by another PL school.
WIN
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Post by breezy on Oct 25, 2017 10:03:00 GMT -5
Let me take one more crack at this --
hcpride -- both inhocsigno's initial list and my supplemental list included both freshmen and sophomores. (And by the way, I was impressed by Colgate's freshman QB; I thought he played very well.)
I will add two comments. First, when you have a total of 60 scholarships to spread among 90 players, you probably only have about 40 who are on full scholarship. Thus, it is reasonable to expect that a full-scholarship freshman/sophomore may well be playing ahead of a half-scholarship (or full pay) junior/senior. Second, this is the 5th year of PL scholarships, and the players who graduated last year for many of the PL schools (i.e., the first scholarship class) probably got a lot of playing time during their careers and left plenty of openings to be filled this year -- but HC had a relatively small initial scholarship class so it lagged behind some of the other schools (which made it reasonable to expect that this year would be a good one for HC -- did not work out that way).
6sader7 -- it is absolutely true that HC loses many recruiting battles with the Ivy League schools, so I can certainly understand that part of the former coach's comment. I am also aware of specific instances where HC has denied admission to certain recruits who then get accepted at another PL school. (There was a very public example of this several years ago -- a recruit committed to HC and then tweeted that he was denied admission ["they think I'm stupid"] and then was admitted to another PL school where he was a starter during his senior year.
With respect to your conversation with the HC alumni relations woman, I think that was very much the attitude of the administration under Fr. McFarland. Given the timeline that this was around the time that ADNP was just getting started, I suspect (perhaps I should say I sincerely hope) that the administration attitude under Fr. Boroughs is at least somewhat better.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 25, 2017 10:41:31 GMT -5
Let me take one more crack at this -- hcpride -- both inhocsigno's initial list and my supplemental list included both freshmen and sophomores. (And by the way, I was impressed by Colgate's freshman QB; I thought he played very well.) I will add two comments. First, when you have a total of 60 scholarships to spread among 90 players, you probably only have about 40 who are on full scholarship. Thus, it is reasonable to expect that a full-scholarship freshman/sophomore may well be playing ahead of a half-scholarship (or full pay) junior/senior. Second, this is the 5th year of PL scholarships, and the players who graduated last year for many of the PL schools (i.e., the first scholarship class) probably got a lot of playing time during their careers and left plenty of openings to be filled this year -- but HC had a relatively small initial scholarship class so it lagged behind some of the other schools (which made it reasonable to expect that this year would be a good one for HC -- did not work out that way). 6sader7 -- it is absolutely true that HC loses many recruiting battles with the Ivy League schools, so I can certainly understand that part of the former coach's comment. I am also aware of specific instances where HC has denied admission to certain recruits who then get accepted at another PL school. (There was a very public example of this several years ago -- a recruit committed to HC and then tweeted that he was denied admission ["they think I'm stupid"] and then was admitted to another PL school where he was a starter during his senior year. With respect to your conversation with the HC alumni relations woman, I think that was very much the attitude of the administration under Fr. McFarland. Given the timeline that this was around the time that ADNP was just getting started, I suspect (perhaps I should say I sincerely hope) that the administration attitude under Fr. Boroughs is at least somewhat better. This is my hope as well -- I believe bringing in ADNP is a big step in the right direciton. I'm hoping the administration gives him what he needs to operate - The Luth is a huge step in that direction.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 25, 2017 10:43:47 GMT -5
I was too slow to respond about the quality of recruits from our sophomore and freshmen classes. Others were quick to point out how off base your statement is and why. The frosh, based on all evidence are even stronger than the sophs. With Luth coming on board, if we can get a great coach to keep the momentum going, we will have an even stronger team.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 25, 2017 10:57:55 GMT -5
I was too slow to respond about the quality of recruits from our sophomore and freshmen classes. Others were quick to point out how off base your statement is and why. The frosh, based on all evidence are even stronger than the sophs. With Luth coming on board, if we can get a great coach to keep the momentum going, we will have an even stronger team. Off base?
From what I understand from Breezy, newsaderdad and a few others our underclass players (freshmen and sophomores) are just as strong- if not stronger - as the underclass players at our opponents' schools. But ours simply don't contribute to the same extent as at the other schools we play for a whole variety of reasons. Some simple and some complex. Well, that settles it. And I was worried next year's team might be a significant step down in talent from this year's senior-laden 2-6 squad. Now I feel better.
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Post by JRGNYR on Oct 27, 2017 10:09:16 GMT -5
It's important not to veer off the course here by splitting hairs with regard to recruiting class player development at this point. There is a very important point I think needs to come across with regard to the Holy Cross Administration attitude towards football -- They are consistently and intentionally handcuffing the Football program. Two more anecdotes: 1. In speaking with a former HC coach (who is no longer coaching) this summer, I was told "we can't get the kids the other PAT schools are getting, and the kids that we can get pick HYP over HC almost every time. Think about that, it makes a tremendous amount of sense, and, again - we're consistently at a disadvantage. 2. A HC alumni relations woman pro-actively reached out to me to let me know she was in town and asked if I would be open to meeting her to provide my feedback as an alumnus, etc. I said sure and took her to lunch. She came prepared and asked noted that I gave specifically to the football team as well as to the College overall. She asked how often I go back up to HC (not often at all), what they could do to get me more involved, ADNP efforts (he had just been getting started at this point), etc - All the normal stuff. I told her that I didn't think the school was doing enough to support and promote the football program and she told me point blank that it was not a priority for the Administration and that the school was much more interesting in promoting sports like lacrosse and aligning / rebranding the school as a North East preppy institution. At one point I said to her "I feel like the HC Administration would be very excited about HC football going 6-5 every season and never really drawing attention to the program" She absolutely agreed with this statement. We talked about the reasons why, and agreed on all of them - They're very much related to cultivating an image of the school, etc. This was a representative of the school - I actually really appreciated her candor, but to be honest, I was making a very obvious statement. This was a friendly conversation. The current Administration, for anyone whose not paying attention, absolutely does not want attention drawn to the school via Football. They want to make the final 4 in lacrosse more than they want HC Football playing for a 1-AA national championship. This. is. a. fact. That second anecdote is eye-opening, to say the least. I can appreciate the candor she had, but still it's wildly disappointing and frustrating to read what she said. That thinking breeds a culture where mediocrity is acceptable. There's no reason why you can't strive for greatness in multiple sports. I love lacrosse and I'm genuinely excited that the school wants to be competitive in that sport because it is the sport growing the fastest nationally at this time. But guess what? The same recruiting challenges will exist vis a vis the AI and the Ivy League if and when HC opts to fully fund its lacrosse program (I don't know where they are now in terms of athletic aid in the sport). I'm not advocating dropping football, but when someone from the College admits that they don't want any attention drawn to the football program whatsoever, why even have it? If you're not going to leverage and celebrate it, what's the point other than participatory? This mindset baffles me in a premiere sport. I can understand it to an extent in other sports because there are other factors at play. I'd love to flip the question back to the Administration. What if you had professors who didn't ask for excellence from their students, and created a classroom culture where Cs were acceptable? "Just show up, do the homework, but don't ask questions and don't draw attention to yourself. Just get a C and we'll be done with it." Why even bother? In what other avenues does the Administration at Holy Cross not ask for excellence?
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Post by lou on Oct 27, 2017 10:33:51 GMT -5
2. A HC alumni relations woman pro-actively reached out to me to let me know she was in town and asked if I would be open to meeting her to provide my feedback as an alumnus, etc. Quite interesting, would love to know who you spoke to: Kristyn Dyer '94 Amina Gomez '16 Sara Port '02 Jinny Van Deusen
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