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Post by hc87 on Oct 21, 2017 23:18:54 GMT -5
We are obviously in the midst of a transition era of HC football, completely understood.
Point being/question asked....whither HC football?
As a 40+ year long fan and alumnus, it would be painful to lose that part of the college's history but one has to start asking if it's really worth the investment at this point. We are floundering around in a league that is pretty poor at this level. The level itself is highly expensive with no real bang for the buck outside of playing the Ivies and an occasional FBS school.
Would dropping football and leaving the Patriot League, joining the New Big East or A-10 (and I know, hardly as easy as it sounds) and cutting a lot of Olympic sports be a better path for the school? I don't know....
Just wondering.....
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 21, 2017 23:30:35 GMT -5
No.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 21, 2017 23:44:20 GMT -5
Believe me...if I had my druthers, a "no" answer would be cool....but I'm starting to wonder what's the end game here? Winning the PL with our 90MM indoor facility? Yeah, kinda cool but hardly anyone cares about the FCS-level in the Northeast anymore....is it really helping Holy Cross as a school at this point?
I'd rather HC had a football program but at some point you have to ask, is it really worth the $$$?
The school has let this question turn in on them....be interesting how they respond to this crisis.
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Post by deep Purple on Oct 22, 2017 0:23:13 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Oct 22, 2017 5:08:39 GMT -5
Believe me...if I had my druthers, a "no" answer would be cool....but I'm starting to wonder what's the end game here? Winning the PL with our 90MM indoor facility? Yeah, kinda cool but hardly anyone cares about the FCS-level in the Northeast anymore....is it really helping Holy Cross as a school at this point? I'd rather HC had a football program but at some point you have to ask, is it really worth the $$$? The school has let this question turn in on them....be interesting how they respond to this crisis. The Patriot League's football is so low-level and low-interest now (even for an FCS league) it is not surprising rational folks would question if winning the PL football championship is much of an accomplishment at all. Those who think it is nevertheless worth attempting must ask at what financial cost is it worth attempting. For the latter group, there should be a limit to the cost - otherwise it is a non-rational enterprise. The very idea some voice that we have to spend so much money staying the course on football and trying to win the PL championship because we've spent so much money recently on the football program has a certain and somewhat wacky (and circular) financial rationale - I guess. In this respect the Luth and other massive expenses might resemble an albatross. The argument that we have to 'build our brand' by overspending and then poorly playing football is strikingly questionable. I could see the argument for cutting our losses, ditching scholarships, turning much of the Luth into a school-community wide fitness center - or something, and rebuilding our academic side of the house. I keep looking at Georgetown and their football program and wondering, at this point, if that is the wiser course given football and financial considerations. Notwithstanding the fact that Georgetown and Holy Cross are different institutions. |
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Post by td128 on Oct 22, 2017 5:58:07 GMT -5
NO. . .
1. see more under Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence College .. .
2. then seek out those -- including many who wore the Purple -- who support the program and the college in countless ways . . .
3. for those who would still raise this question, I might encourage you to actually get involved in the programs and attend the annual events put on in support of HC Football so as to gain a greater understanding . . .
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82 
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Post by wstruz71 on Oct 22, 2017 6:35:56 GMT -5
We are obviously in the midst of a transition era of HC football, completely understood. Point being/question asked....whither HC football? As a 40+ year long fan and alumnus, it would be painful to lose that part of the college's history but one has to start asking if it's really worth the investment at this point. We are floundering around in a league that is pretty poor at this level. The level itself is highly expensive with no real bang for the buck outside of playing the Ivies and an occasional FBS school. Would dropping football and leaving the Patriot League, joining the New Big East or A-10 (and I know, hardly as easy as it sounds) and cutting a lot of Olympic sports be a better path for the school? I don't know.... Just wondering..... I have been a season ticket holder for 40+ years. I left the game yesterday midway through the third quarter, as I had enough. This is the second straight game where I made a very early exit. Since I drive 70 miles one way to the games, I decided I will not be renewing my season tickets. I'm getting too old to drive 70 miles for an early exit. My patience with this type of football is lost. |
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Post by sader81 on Oct 22, 2017 7:12:08 GMT -5
I have been a season ticket holder for 40+ years. I left the game yesterday midway through the third quarter, as I had enough. This is the second straight game where I made a very early exit. Since I drive 70 miles one way to the games, I decided I will not be renewing my season tickets. I'm getting too old to drive 70 miles for an early exit. My patience with this type of football is lost. Wst: it’s 90 miles each way for me. Having gone through the last time a coaching staff was fired in 1980, I can tell you it’s not fun to play under these conditions. I was hoping the shakeup might give a spark to the guys, but that fumble before the half and pick six stomped out any possibility of that. I sat behind the bench in the second half and the kids look shot! A new staff will bring in new energy and a new direction. There’s 60 kids on scholarship, so the cupboards are not empty. NP should have pulled the plug on CTG after Fordham last year, but didn’t. He couldn’t keep quality assistants, and lost the kids. I feel for the seniors because these next three weeks will be less than fun. We now have tremendous facilities, and a new staff will turn the ship around. Don’t burn next years tickets yet! |
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Post by spenser on Oct 22, 2017 7:31:25 GMT -5
I agree. Fans should give the program a chance with a new coaching staff coming, together with four scholarship classes and the new facilities. We are never going to be Notre Dame, and that’s fine. But we can have a competitive team that is fun to watch.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Oct 22, 2017 8:56:15 GMT -5
I have been a season ticket holder for 40+ years. I left the game yesterday midway through the third quarter, as I had enough. This is the second straight game where I made a very early exit. Since I drive 70 miles one way to the games, I decided I will not be renewing my season tickets. I'm getting too old to drive 70 miles for an early exit. My patience with this type of football is lost. Wst: it’s 90 miles each way for me. Having gone through the last time a coaching staff was fired in 1980, I can tell you it’s not fun to play under these conditions. I was hoping the shakeup might give a spark to the guys, but that fumble before the half and pick six stomped out any possibility of that. I sat behind the bench in the second half and the kids look shot! A new staff will bring in new energy and a new direction. There’s 60 kids on scholarship, so the cupboards are not empty. NP should have pulled the plug on CTG after Fordham last year, but didn’t. He couldn’t keep quality assistants, and lost the kids. I feel for the seniors because these next three weeks will be less than fun. We now have tremendous facilities, and a new staff will turn the ship around. Don’t burn next years tickets yet! Thank you for your input. I admire your courage for driving 90 miles each way; I thought I was brave. I certainly agree NP should have pulled the plug on CTG after the Fordham game last year. |
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Post by hcpride on Oct 22, 2017 9:07:38 GMT -5
Wst: it’s 90 miles each way for me. Having gone through the last time a coaching staff was fired in 1980, I can tell you it’s not fun to play under these conditions. I was hoping the shakeup might give a spark to the guys, but that fumble before the half and pick six stomped out any possibility of that. I sat behind the bench in the second half and the kids look shot! A new staff will bring in new energy and a new direction. There’s 60 kids on scholarship, so the cupboards are not empty. NP should have pulled the plug on CTG after Fordham last year, but didn’t. He couldn’t keep quality assistants, and lost the kids. I feel for the seniors because these next three weeks will be less than fun. We now have tremendous facilities, and a new staff will turn the ship around. Don’t burn next years tickets yet! When folks comment that essentially/relatively the 'cupboard is empty" they do not mean there will not be 60 kids on scholarship. I think it is shorthand for the graduation of a large number of the significant contributors...on a team that had tremendous difficulties in any case. (good point on the assistants issue) |
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Post by crusader12 on Oct 22, 2017 9:23:17 GMT -5
I'm honestly worried about the BC game next year. Remember the Howard game a few years ago? This could be worse....
A pressure hire for ADNP, I do not envy him. Go Cross!
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 22, 2017 9:35:53 GMT -5
For many reasons beyond the play on the field the new FB hire is arguably the most critical athletic hire in HC's history.
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Post by realism on Oct 22, 2017 9:37:40 GMT -5
I'm honestly worried about the BC game next year.... A pressure hire for ADNP, I do not envy him. I think the back-to-back weeks of Syracuse and Navy opening up the 2019 season is a glaring bubble-gum-machine-red-light. It says a lot about the kind of wunderkind ADNP really is. This was never "smart." Under the circumstances, someone is going to pay a big price. |
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Post by sader1998 on Oct 22, 2017 11:21:16 GMT -5
We are obviously in the midst of a transition era of HC football, completely understood. Point being/question asked....whither HC football? As a 40+ year long fan and alumnus, it would be painful to lose that part of the college's history but one has to start asking if it's really worth the investment at this point. We are floundering around in a league that is pretty poor at this level. The level itself is highly expensive with no real bang for the buck outside of playing the Ivies and an occasional FBS school. Would dropping football and leaving the Patriot League, joining the New Big East or A-10 (and I know, hardly as easy as it sounds) and cutting a lot of Olympic sports be a better path for the school? I don't know.... Just wondering..... I'd give the new coach about 5-6 years to turn the program around and get some consistently positive results. If we end up getting more of the same, I'd say "shut it down." Even in the (not-so-recent anymore) run of success during the Randolph years, student/alum/local support wasn't great. I'll never forget going to the PL title game in '09. I later ran into a relative of mine on campus, who watched the game in his dorm room w/his buddies rather than going down the hill and experiencing it in person. Sadly, I think that's par for the course. During Homecoming on any given year - including this one - there seem to be more "fans" at Freshman Field than in Fitton Field during the game. That's pathetic. I'd like to see the College make a good-faith effort to turn it around. But if that effort only yields similar results to what we've been seeing - both on the field and in the seats - then I think the FB resources could be put to better use elsewhere. Besides, with all the (rightful) concerns about the long-term health effects of football, the sport might not be the same within the next 15-20 years anyway. |
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Post by jflare on Oct 22, 2017 11:29:46 GMT -5
What's next  ? Well first a 3 point loss to Georgetown next Saturday. Leigh/Fordham probably two more losses. CTG gone. Brian Rock gone on November 12th. PL Championship gone. OCS gone. Season gone !!! Program in complete shambles. Help on the way with new Coach. ADNP better make the right hire or it will be ADNP gone too....... |
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Oct 22, 2017 12:55:58 GMT -5
I'm honestly worried about the BC game next year.... A pressure hire for ADNP, I do not envy him. I think the back-to-back weeks of Syracuse and Navy opening up the 2019 season is a glaring bubble-gum-machine-red-light. It says a lot about the kind of wunderkind ADNP really is. This was never "smart." Under the circumstances, someone is going to pay a big price. FBS teams should not have been scheduled until Holy Cross was a consistent winner at the FCS level. Some people say it helps with recruiting, but I have my doubts about that. |
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 22, 2017 14:45:30 GMT -5
NO. . . 1. see more under Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence College .. . 2. then seek out those -- including many who wore the Purple -- who support the program and the college in countless ways . . . 3. for those who would still raise this question, I might encourage you to actually get involved in the programs and attend the annual events put on in support of HC Football so as to gain a greater understanding . . . It's not a question of supporting the program. Everybody on this board supports the program. They wouldn't be here otherwise. But the undeniable reality is that, except for a small handful of years, dropping scholarships in the early '90s was a disaster for HC football. Father Brooks was an ardent supporter of HC athletics, but he was just plain wrong about the impact the PL would have on our two marquee sports. This year was supposed to be different, but you see where we are. A season in shambles and a program with little sense of positive direction. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, but things need to be turned around big time and soon. At this point, football is a financial negative for the College and is doing nothing positive on the "branding" side of the ledger. The question is whether the situation can be substantially improved in the next, say, four or five years. If we are still wallowing in mediocrity (or worse) by that time, I predict that the pressure to drop the sport and devote the football money to more productive uses will greatly intensify. And, much as I hate to say it, rightly so. As others on this board have noted, it would be hard to over-emphasize the importance of the next head coach selection. Given how he mismanaged the Gilmore situation, I can't say I feel overly optimistic about Pine's ability to recruit the right guy. But I'm a-hopin'. GO CRUSADERS! |
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Post by cfrivals on Oct 22, 2017 16:49:56 GMT -5
Agree the dropping of scholarships was the worst decision this program ever made. We have never been able to adapt or bring the program back. I never missed a game from 1977-1988. Since then, I have been to 1 and I live 5 miles from the stadium. I think the 100 mil investment should have been invested on BB and Hockey. There is no way you can get FB back in these parts playing 1AA and being part of the PL, it will never happen. Even a jump to 1A won't work now, 1986, maybe. Cut your losses and invest in the programs that can play and complete at the highest level or all this investment was a waste and ADNP and TPTB sold the donors a load of 💩
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Post by td128 on Oct 22, 2017 17:00:45 GMT -5
Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence each have a female to male student population ratio of between 55-60% female vs 45-40% male.
Hard enough already to achieve a balanced student body population . . .
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Post by hc87 on Oct 22, 2017 18:30:40 GMT -5
Again, I'm still a supporter of retaining the football program but I have to say the last few seasons have started to stir doubts. I suppose I had unrealistic expectations that the return of scholarships would be much more transformative than it has been (so far anyway).
There aren't many things better than going to a Holy Cross football game on a Saturday in the Fall. It's been a big part of my entire life going back to when I was a very little kid in the late 1960s. That being said, if we continue to futz around, participate in D1 football with half-measures(60 instead of 63 schollies, stringent admissions, no red-shirting etc) ...I think it starts to become a waste of the school's resources.
We have to step up our efforts in a variety of ways or start thinking of an athletic department without football.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Oct 22, 2017 18:35:02 GMT -5
Again, I'm still a supporter of retaining the football program but I have to say the last few seasons have started to stir doubts. I suppose I had unrealistic expectations that the return of scholarships would be much more transformative than it has been (so far anyway). There aren't many things better than going to a Holy Cross football game on a Saturday in the Fall. It's been a big part of my entire life going back to when I was a very little kid in the late 1960s. That being said, if we continue to futz around, participate in D1 football with half-measures(60 instead of 63 schollies, stringent admissions, no red-shirting etc) ...I think it starts to become a waste of the school's resources. We have to step up our efforts in a variety of ways or start thinking of an athletic department without football. Almost bearing UConn and demolishing UNH left you feeling blue? |
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Post by hc87 on Oct 22, 2017 18:40:02 GMT -5
Are we really defending where the football program is this year?
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Post by HC92 on Oct 22, 2017 18:47:33 GMT -5
Again, I'm still a supporter of retaining the football program but I have to say the last few seasons have started to stir doubts. I suppose I had unrealistic expectations that the return of scholarships would be much more transformative than it has been (so far anyway). There aren't many things better than going to a Holy Cross football game on a Saturday in the Fall. It's been a big part of my entire life going back to when I was a very little kid in the late 1960s. That being said, if we continue to futz around, participate in D1 football with half-measures(60 instead of 63 schollies, stringent admissions, no red-shirting etc) ...I think it starts to become a waste of the school's resources. We have to step up our efforts in a variety of ways or start thinking of an athletic department without football. Almost bearing UConn and demolishing UNH left you feeling blue? I'm going to go out on a limb and say it has more to do with going 21-44 since the start of the 2012 season. That has most of us feeling blue. The fact that we occasionally play a great game makes it all the more frustrating. |
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Post by HC1843 on Oct 22, 2017 18:54:55 GMT -5
Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence each have a female to male student population ratio of between 55-60% female vs 45-40% male. Hard enough already to achieve a balanced student body population . . . TD, I respect you a lot, but balancing the student body through football is not compelling. Maybe I misunderstand your point. At the end of the day, what is the ROI from a branding/recognition perspective? As of now, I do not see how the money being spent is achieving these objectives. Outside of the football recruits, prospects are not choosing HC over competitors because of football. I am not sure they ever will. How then shall we live? Cheers. |
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? Well first a 3 point loss to Georgetown next Saturday. Leigh/Fordham probably two more losses. CTG gone. Brian Rock gone on November 12th. PL Championship gone.
