|
Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2019 16:53:27 GMT -5
AIC enrollment is too small. Couldn't afford HE. _______________________________________ The financial burden of HE is high for any private institution. The NCAA allows 18 scollies for M and W ice hockey. For the men, the scollie cap of 18 is second only to football, --for those schools that play football For the women, the cap of 18 is tied for #1 with track & cross country combined. Expenses M/W ice hockey 2017-18 $ in millionsHE private schools rankedBC 4.3 / 2.0 Providence 3.7 / 2.1 BU 3.5 / 2.3 Northeastern 3.0 / 2,2 Merrimack 2.5 / 1.6 HE public schools rankedUConn 3.0 / 1,8 UMass Amherst 3.0 / 0 UMass Lowell 2.9 / 0 UNH 2.7 / 1.8 Vermont 2.2 / 1.5 Maine 2.0 / 1.0 Why are private schools' expenses universally higher (except for Div II Merrimack)? Cost of attendance at HC is $70,000 plus. Cost of attendance at Univ of Vermont $32,000 in-state, $57,000 out of state. 18 full scollies for men at HC would cost $1.25M Expenses M/W ice hockey 2017-18 $ in millionsColgate 2.2 / 1.9 Notre Dame 4.4 / 0 Why does ice hockey at Colgate, playing in the ECAC, cost less? Likely, a big reason is that Colgate is not funding 18 full scollies. Most of the ECAC members are IL or Div III, which offer no merit aid for ice hockey. Colgate may be rostering 10-12 full scollie equivalents, even if its allowed 18. The ECAC has no public universities as members, so. for its members, there is no cost disadvantage with a public university when it comes to competing on fin aid. However, if HC wants to be competitive in HE, its clear to me that HC would have to offer 18 full scollie equivalents. (Ice hockey is not a fin aid headcount sport.) HC in the HE would join BC as the only private schools playing Div I football. A sidenote: HC's football expenses (with a 60 scollie cap) in 2017-18 were $2 million higher than the University of Maine's (with a 63 scollie cap). Additional note: Probably, the M's expenses at both UMass schools would be less if the schools had women's ice hockey. As it is, any operating expenses associated with operating the rink are loaded fully onto the men's teams. If so, UConn's M's costs are probably higher than they would otherwise be because of rink rental costs. Merrimack is private and is playing D-1 Football this fall
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jun 29, 2019 17:55:46 GMT -5
Presumably a joke. A "flight is a flight" but that means all the other, "local" teams are also flying to Arizona unless ASU agrees that all their games will be away games. I also don't think their academic standards are up to HE "snuff."
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 29, 2019 18:18:29 GMT -5
Presumably a joke. A "flight is a flight" but that means all the other, "local" teams are also flying to Arizona unless ASU agrees that all their games will be away games. I also don't think their academic standards are up to HE "snuff." The way HE schedules, a HE school would travel to ASU for one weekend every two years, regular schedule (no playoffs) ASU's new 5,000 seat on-campus rink will open November 2020. www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/asu/2018/06/08/asu-ray-anderson-expects-multi-purpose-arena-completed-november-2020/686869002/^^^ June 8, 2018 SAT Scores 25th / 75th percentileASU Verbal 570 / 670 ASU Math 560 / 690 UMaine Verbal 530 / 630 UMaine Math . 520 / 620
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 18:54:32 GMT -5
More snow days absent from school in Maine?
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jun 29, 2019 19:07:55 GMT -5
Phreek, if this happens, then the leaders of Hockey East have rocks in their head and I will be happy Holy Cross isn't in it.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 29, 2019 19:55:41 GMT -5
Phreek, if this happens, then the leaders of Hockey East have rocks in their head and I will be happy Holy Cross isn't in it. Probably costs less to fly to Phoenix than it does to Colorado Springs. Phoenix metro area has a population of nearly five million. Phoenix's NHL franchise has apparently done a great job marketing hockey, and developing youth hockey. Surging interest. Phoenix apparently has a lot of transplants from northern states and Canada. ASU is a big enough school, enrollment wise, that it commands coverage in local media. All the makings of a good business case.. _____________________________________________ I looked at ASU's football revenue and expense to see how much money they made (profit) on football, and they reported a loss of $3 million. Footnote explained they had a multi-million $$ buyout of a coach's contract booked as a one-time expense. Their costs were $3 million than the next highest school (UCLA). Their football revenue was $47 million, about the middle of the pack in the Pac12, and $3 million more than Univ. of Arizona. All the other Pac12 schools all (except UCLA) made gobs of money (profit), University of Washington had a profit of $43 million. Stanford made $20 million on a revenue total similar to ASU, This demonstrates that Power Five schools can indulge themselves in other sports.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 21:04:32 GMT -5
ASU has 51,000 students. For every dollar each of those students gets assessed in fees towards athletics, each HC student would have to pay $17 to match it...after paying about five times as much tuition as ASU in-state tuition of $10,822. And HC does not makes gobs of profit from football like PAC 12 schools do. The AHA is starting to look pretty good. If we move up one spot in the standings each season that will give us upward momentum for a decade or so and then see what the landscape looks like.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2019 21:19:57 GMT -5
Presumably a joke. A "flight is a flight" but that means all the other, "local" teams are also flying to Arizona unless ASU agrees that all their games will be away games. I also don't think their academic standards are up to HE "snuff." 4 hour and 50 minute flight...This is shorter than Maine taking a bus to UConn, PC, Vermont, UMass-Amherst and only 40 minutes more than Maine to BC with no traffic. There are five nonstop flights on Sunday from Boston to Phoenix.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 22:33:49 GMT -5
TSA Screener at Bangor International Airport to Maine Black Bear Defenseman: "Remove your skates, please." I am happy about the expansion of college hockey for the hard working folks like yourself involved in and around the game. College sports in general are a positive slice of life. You chose your career well.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Jun 29, 2019 22:37:49 GMT -5
Presumably a joke. A "flight is a flight" but that means all the other, "local" teams are also flying to Arizona unless ASU agrees that all their games will be away games. I also don't think their academic standards are up to HE "snuff." 4 hour and 50 minute flight...This is shorter than Maine taking a bus to UConn, PC, Vermont, UMass-Amherst and only 40 minutes more than Maine to BC with no traffic. There are five nonstop flights on Sunday from Boston to Phoenix. Let’s have a race. I’ll start at UMaine in Orono. My destination is the XL Center in Hartford. You can start at any campus in Hockey East. Your destination is wherever ASU plays its hockey games. I’ll only take a bus. You can take whatever commercially available transportation you want. We each have to take a full D1 hockey traveling party and all of their gear. First one to get there wins. Happy to put big money on it if you wish. Maybe something like the difference in cost between the two trips.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2019 5:59:19 GMT -5
Yeah, it makes as much sense as having the Air Force academy in the same league - it doesn't. Two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe AFA and ASU can start their own league since hockey is so popular in the southwest now. Again, I thought the whole idea was a joke.
Then, again, all these conferences in college athletics have gotten out of hand from when they made at least a little sense geographically.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Jun 30, 2019 6:54:48 GMT -5
As far as HE goes, simply don't see the benefits of them going there. Not like there is a tv market to capture, as tv is not an issue in that league.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 30, 2019 8:02:05 GMT -5
For those who think Phx does a "great job marketing hockey" they have among the worst attendance every year in the NHL (29th of 31 clubs in reported this past season), and are always mentioned as a candidate to move to another city, and a few years ago were on the verge of folding.
|
|
|
Post by matunuck on Jun 30, 2019 8:44:15 GMT -5
The current arena is in Glendale, which is a nightmare to get to on weeknights from Phoenix/Tempe. They need an arena closer in which will likely happen. And while AZ isn’t MN it certainly has expanded its youth hockey and will continue to see steady growth moving forward. I’m quite familiar with AZ and compared to just 10 years ago hockey is not a distant backwater. arizonasports.com/story/1637110/coyotes-continue-to-fuel-hockeys-massive-growth-in-arizona/
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 30, 2019 8:47:54 GMT -5
As far as HE goes, simply don't see the benefits of them going there. Not like there is a tv market to capture, as tv is not an issue in that league. I thought their ambition was to join the Big Ten. IMO, the only reason that HE would be interested is they represent a 12th conference member who is willing to bear the long-term expense. of men's ice hockey as played in HE And if I were a HE member, I would see HC as a big question mark in that regard, as HC has done diddly-squat about improving / expanding its on-campus rink and would propose playing in a large off-campus arena when it has neither the enrollment nor the level of community support to suggest it could realize an average 2,500-3,000 attendance. You would think that if HC actually expected it might get 2500 average attendance for ice hockey, it would expand the Hart rink to gain the revenue from such. Don't recall HE members complaining about Notre Dame being a member, and I'm sure getting to South Bend was as, if not more, difficult than getting to Phoenix. South Bend is over 100 miles from O'Hare.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2019 8:59:35 GMT -5
Yeah, but South Bend's got "Mayor Pete!" We don't see the mayor of Phoenix running for POTUS!* (Sorry, I couldn't resist. ) * or maybe he/she is and I just couldn't find him/her in the crowd.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Jun 30, 2019 9:07:53 GMT -5
LOL 😆
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2019 9:36:55 GMT -5
HC could average 2500 fans or more at the DCU if it went from the bottom of the AHA to the top of HE. How likely is that to happen? The position of the HC women in the HE standings in five years will provide a clue.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Jun 30, 2019 10:23:17 GMT -5
HC could average 2500 fans or more at the DCU if it went from the bottom of the AHA to the top of HE. How likely is that to happen? The position of the HC women in the HE standings in five years will provide a clue. It's gotta be more than 2,500 by at least double to make playing at the DCU a win for all concerned (HC/HE/DCU mgmnt/The City). Keep that in mind.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2019 13:46:59 GMT -5
There is one small advantage HC might have in a competition with the Railers for fans at the DCU if the men ever did join the women in HE, imo. That advantage is the Railers play in a league one level below the AHL. I know the AHL plays for the Calder Cup, but how many general sports fans can name the cup the Railers play for without looking it up? I can't even recall the exact abbreviation of the league off the top of my head.
HE on the other hand plays for a league championship, a league tournament championship, automatic or at large invite to the NCAA tournament, and then advancement to the elite eight, the iconic frozen four and then the Holy Grail, an NCAA division one national championship. To me that is more to root for even though we don't have a fluffy mascot to enthrall the kids.
Having said that, let's win the AHA a few times while we are in it.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Jun 30, 2019 22:00:13 GMT -5
Like everything else, if we could be a reasonably strong HE team, we’d do fine attendance-wise. If we were a perennial bottom-feeder, attendance would not be good.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 30, 2019 22:46:58 GMT -5
Has more to do than just having a good HC club to draw well. Has to do with drawing fans of other HE schools, who tend to travel decent to away venues for 2 game weekend sets, rather than the fans of ECHL teams from depressed rust belt cities who aren't coming to Worc under any circumstance.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2019 23:59:57 GMT -5
Has more to do than just having a good HC club to draw well. Has to do with drawing fans of other HE schools, who tend to travel decent to away venues for 2 game weekend sets, rather than the fans of ECHL teams from depressed rust belt cities who aren't coming to Worc under any circumstance. I just fact checked your statement, sir. Reading, PA, Manchester, NH, Glens Falls, NY, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Indianapolis, Indiana, Toledo, Ohio, Kalamazoo, Michigan, and Worcester, MA. Yup, the facts check out. That's the Rust Belt alright.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jul 2, 2019 0:58:50 GMT -5
Has more to do than just having a good HC club to draw well. Has to do with drawing fans of other HE schools, who tend to travel decent to away venues for 2 game weekend sets, rather than the fans of ECHL teams from depressed rust belt cities who aren't coming to Worc under any circumstance. Very few college hockey fans travel to away games. I would put it at 20 or less (parents not included). Basically Maine, UNH, and Vermont are the only ones that bring that many. BU, BC (who hasn’t made the tourney the last two years) bring in the local crowds who see the big name but don’t recognize the teams haven’t been good lately.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jul 2, 2019 1:00:29 GMT -5
4 hour and 50 minute flight...This is shorter than Maine taking a bus to UConn, PC, Vermont, UMass-Amherst and only 40 minutes more than Maine to BC with no traffic. There are five nonstop flights on Sunday from Boston to Phoenix. Let’s have a race. I’ll start at UMaine in Orono. My destination is the XL Center in Hartford. You can start at any campus in Hockey East. Your destination is wherever ASU plays its hockey games. I’ll only take a bus. You can take whatever commercially available transportation you want. We each have to take a full D1 hockey traveling party and all of their gear. First one to get there wins. Happy to put big money on it if you wish. Maybe something like the difference in cost between the two trips. If ASU is chartering, they win the battle even more. I know Providence charters at least one road trip a season and when you charter, security is a little bit faster 😱
|
|