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Lehigh
Nov 13, 2017 20:43:58 GMT -5
Post by hcpride on Nov 13, 2017 20:43:58 GMT -5
I must say that the overall negativity of the views expressed on this thread makes me wonder whether HC can ever be successful again at the FCS level, given all that's happened since the early 1990s. If by successful you mean one or two losses I'd say that is a long way off (5+ years) If by successful you mean better than .500 I'd say it will be at least a few years. If by successful you mean compete for the Patriot League title I'd say we can be in the mix late in the season again next year.
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Lehigh
Nov 13, 2017 20:45:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by richh on Nov 13, 2017 20:45:15 GMT -5
That is absolutely NOT a fact. It is an excuse, but not a valid one. That is absolutely a fact. It has indeed been true for most of Gilmore's time at Cross. The last 2 Cross recruit classes have a much broader basis of talent and athleticism. My assumption is Pine was able to reach a more amenable admissions process. To expect a complete turnaround based on underclassmen is unrealistic. Most players at this level , particularly LM need a year or two to mature, strengthen and transition up. Even if physically ready frosh will make mistakes. Just look at the Lehigh 2ndary with 4 frosh in the 2 deep. Painful .Key is to maintain and improve each class. Next HC and Staff need to be in place before the end of the year for any chance at a full recruit class.
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Lehigh
Nov 13, 2017 21:03:29 GMT -5
Post by bison137 on Nov 13, 2017 21:03:29 GMT -5
That is absolutely NOT a fact. It is an excuse, but not a valid one. That is absolutely a fact. Not so at all. Academics of recruits are shared with the whole league.
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Lehigh
Nov 13, 2017 21:07:28 GMT -5
Post by gks on Nov 13, 2017 21:07:28 GMT -5
Sorry Bison you're wrong on this one. HC admissions has been an enemy of athletics for a long time.
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Lehigh
Nov 13, 2017 21:19:48 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 13, 2017 21:19:48 GMT -5
When TG was the DC at Lehigh, he mentioned that if a recruit had a certain score on his SAT (a 1200, perhaps?) and had a certain GPA, the admissions process was very, very seamless.
That was far from the case for him at HC. Routinely, HC recruits who wanted to come to HC would be denied admission, and end up at other PL schools.
I don't doubt this has happened to other schools in the PL, as well, but this was a routine occurrence at HC.
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Lehigh
Nov 13, 2017 21:32:27 GMT -5
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 13, 2017 21:32:27 GMT -5
Unless the exact same algorithm is used by all schools and everything else be damned on applications there is no possible way that admissions are consistent across all PL schools.
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Post by 6sader7 on Nov 13, 2017 22:25:14 GMT -5
The admissions issue is truly not even worthy of debate for anyone in the know.
I can see TG not exactly rubbing those in admissions the right way when it came to dealing with this issue - Hopefully, a fresh face as Head Coach can help here.
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Post by jkh67 on Nov 14, 2017 14:22:47 GMT -5
The admissions issue is truly not even worthy of debate for anyone in the know. I can see TG not exactly rubbing those in admissions the right way when it came to dealing with this issue - Hopefully, a fresh face as Head Coach can help here. It's really very simple, isn't it? If Boroughs and the Board of Trustees want more flexible admissions standards for athletes, they can surely direct the admissions office to use those standards. If indeed our standards are stricter than those of our PL and IL competitors for athletic talent and TPTB aren't willing to take action to level the playing field, they are telling us that athletic mediocrity is OK by them. I don't plan to give one more penny to Alma Mater until I see real evidence that Boroughs and the Board see winning as a major...if not the major... objective of playing intercollegiate sports.
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Lehigh
Nov 15, 2017 9:29:43 GMT -5
Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 15, 2017 9:29:43 GMT -5
Why doesn't the League mandate admissions standards for the schools, and those schools elect to participate under those same rules as self-regulating bodies?
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Post by freethef4 on Nov 15, 2017 11:07:58 GMT -5
I'm sorry but this thread has veered off into a self delusional humble brag. "We can't get the athletes because we are so tough to get into" "Much tougher than our fellow PL and some Ivy's!!!!!!" Not factual in any manner. You may have an isolated anecdote but in the main athletes are given greater latitude than the general student body. Fact not opinion. Ann McD is not your issue or the boogie man who has keep HC chugging along in mediocrity for so long. Nice to think that the purple paragon of prestige is so exclusive but the facts say otherwise. You are a fine school, a great school I would say, but you are not elite among your brethren. Sheesh!
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 15, 2017 11:29:50 GMT -5
It pains me to say so, but I have to agree, freethef4. That argument makes it sound as if people who are better students are by that fact worse athletes, and the reverse with better athletes being poor students. While there may be some correlation, I am not sure it is as cut and dry as many who blame HC admissions would seem to believe. If athletes are getting into other PL schools after being unable to get into HC, there can be a number of factors at play.
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Post by 6sader7 on Nov 15, 2017 13:31:55 GMT -5
I'm sorry but this thread has veered off into a self delusional humble brag. "We can't get the athletes because we are so tough to get into" "Much tougher than our fellow PL and some Ivy's!!!!!!" Not factual in any manner. You may have an isolated anecdote but in the main athletes are given greater latitude than the general student body. Fact not opinion. Ann McD is not your issue or the boogie man who has keep HC chugging along in mediocrity for so long. Nice to think that the purple paragon of prestige is so exclusive but the facts say otherwise. You are a fine school, a great school I would say, but you are not elite among your brethren. Sheesh! To be clear I'm not saying "We can't get the athletes because we are so tough to get into" I'm saying that HC has become easier for the general student population to get into, however for whatever reason our admissions is much more stringent for Football student athletes than the rest of our peers in the Patriot League. Lafayette is a terrific academic institution whom I would say is on par, if not ahead of Holy Cross academically. At this juncture Lafayette is able to admit Football student athletes that Holy Cross will not.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 15, 2017 15:16:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry but this thread has veered off into a self delusional humble brag. "We can't get the athletes because we are so tough to get into" "Much tougher than our fellow PL and some Ivy's!!!!!!" Not factual in any manner. You may have an isolated anecdote but in the main athletes are given greater latitude than the general student body. Fact not opinion. Ann McD is not your issue or the boogie man who has keep HC chugging along in mediocrity for so long. Nice to think that the purple paragon of prestige is so exclusive but the facts say otherwise. You are a fine school, a great school I would say, but you are not elite among your brethren. Sheesh! Totally missing the point. The point (and fact) is that Ann McD gives Holy Cross coaches a very difficult time with low-band recruits who comply with the AI standards, whereas other PL coaching staffs do not have any issues bringing in whatever recruits they need at the low-band level to also comply with the AI. This issue is particularly relevant to the HC football program.
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Post by joe on Nov 15, 2017 15:24:05 GMT -5
No. It's being going on for years. Fact.
I know of many kids who were barely accepted or rejected at HC but who were given early admission at Ivy schools for crying out loud. It's not even up for debate that this is a real problem. These are good kids, good students, who should be admitted more easily. It's not an ego trip or humble brag. Most of the more practical HC supporters like me feel exactly the opposite. We see HC as a school just like the other PL schools, no better or worse really, and are pissed off that our admissions sees it differently; as some sort of de facto Ivy League school. it's time to move on from that, get real, and start bringing in the horses to compete.
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