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Post by rgs318 on Nov 11, 2017 19:25:51 GMT -5
An attitude similar to the one many have about this basketball season might be helpful. Set a low bar for expectations for the football team (certainly warranted after this season's disappointing losses and a coaching changeover) and let's see next year's team force us to raise that bar with another scholarship class joining the program.
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Lehigh
Nov 11, 2017 20:17:13 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Nov 11, 2017 20:17:13 GMT -5
Awful year for Patriot League football and awful year for Holy Cross football. Upgrade in recruits and upgrade in coaching is definitely needed for HC.
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Lehigh
Nov 11, 2017 20:54:37 GMT -5
Post by ncaam on Nov 11, 2017 20:54:37 GMT -5
Just got home from the game. Biggest weakness today? Special teams.
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Post by toddstratton on Nov 11, 2017 21:36:35 GMT -5
I'm a little loathe to post this because it's not on the kid (anybody undah 40 is a kid to me) per se (God knows where we would have been without him) but here are the "macro stats" (win-loss) of the Pujals-era: 2013: 3-9 started 8 games 2014: 4-8 started all 12 games 2015: 6-5 started all 11 games 2016: 4-7 started 4 games 2017: 4-7 started all 11 games Pujals is statistically one of the greatest QBs in PL history....but collectively we went 21-36 (.368 winning %) during the "Pujals-era." Point of the post, I suppose, is what can we learn/glean from this? Did Pete's teams not get enough institutional support (recruiting etc), where were the holes in the coaching, what are things that we can do collectively as a school/program to break out of this rut??? I know we have addressed or started to address some of this (Luth, new coaching staff etc) but when you step back and look at it in a macro-sense (wins and losses) as i just did, it's kind of illuminating at what a project the next coaching staff has in front of them. Anyone that knows anything about Holy Cross football knows that Peter Pujals is not the problem. Ask any of the players.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 11, 2017 21:42:58 GMT -5
I'm a little loathe to post this because it's not on the kid (anybody undah 40 is a kid to me) per se (God knows where we would have been without him) but here are the "macro stats" (win-loss) of the Pujals-era: 2013: 3-9 started 8 games 2014: 4-8 started all 12 games 2015: 6-5 started all 11 games 2016: 4-7 started 4 games 2017: 4-7 started all 11 games Pujals is statistically one of the greatest QBs in PL history....but collectively we went 21-36 (.368 winning %) during the "Pujals-era." Point of the post, I suppose, is what can we learn/glean from this? Did Pete's teams not get enough institutional support (recruiting etc), where were the holes in the coaching, what are things that we can do collectively as a school/program to break out of this rut??? I know we have addressed or started to address some of this (Luth, new coaching staff etc) but when you step back and look at it in a macro-sense (wins and losses) as i just did, it's kind of illuminating at what a project the next coaching staff has in front of them. Anyone that knows anything about Holy Cross football knows that Peter Pujals is not the problem. Ask any of the players. This is why we have to have the SAT not optional....reading comp. issues.
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Post by crusader1970 on Nov 11, 2017 22:22:44 GMT -5
Thank you to all the seniors! But in all honesty this season couldn't end fast enough. ADNP: you're on the clock. Well said. My feelings exactly.
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Lehigh
Nov 11, 2017 22:22:57 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 11, 2017 22:22:57 GMT -5
Anyone that knows anything about Holy Cross football knows that Peter Pujals is not the problem. Ask any of the players. This is why we have to have the SAT not optional....reading comp. issues. Pujals is, by all accounts, a great kid and a great CRUSADER. However, it’s tough to dismiss that we may not be able to find another HC QB who lost more games over the course of their career. While he is certainly a great addition to the ranks of HC alumni, I am very much looking forward to seeing someone else get a chance at QB next September.
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Lehigh
Nov 11, 2017 22:42:58 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Nov 11, 2017 22:42:58 GMT -5
Again...without Pujals, how many more games would we have lost from 2013-17?
How in Christ's name our last coach was given an extension boggles the mind. We were 2-9 in 2012 btw.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 11, 2017 22:49:19 GMT -5
87 - for the love of Mike, PLEASE move on.
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Lehigh
Nov 11, 2017 22:52:12 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Nov 11, 2017 22:52:12 GMT -5
I'm trying....it's a process....but seriously, if you look at our win-loss records lately, what was Pine thinking?
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Lehigh
Nov 11, 2017 22:53:56 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 11, 2017 22:53:56 GMT -5
Again...without Pujals, how many more games would we have lost from 2013-17? How in Christ's name our last coach was given an extension boggles the mind. We were 2-9 in 2012 btw. To answer your first question: very few. Maybe “less than 0” depending on who the other option was. To answer your second question: be careful what you wish for. Maryland and Army football fans would likely attest to that when Kevin Anderson was firing and hiring coaches for them.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 10:34:00 GMT -5
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rgs318 likes this
Post by richh on Nov 12, 2017 10:34:00 GMT -5
This is why we have to have the SAT not optional....reading comp. issues. Pujals is, by all accounts, a great kid and a great CRUSADER. However, it’s tough to dismiss that we may not be able to find another HC QB who lost more games over the course of their career. While he is certainly a great addition to the ranks of HC alumni, I am very much looking forward to seeing someone else get a chance at QB next September. Your issue was not at QB. You should be looking at new HC getting some better OL, WRs, more speed everywhere and better athletes.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 10:52:45 GMT -5
Post by hcpride on Nov 12, 2017 10:52:45 GMT -5
Pujals is, by all accounts, a great kid and a great CRUSADER. However, it’s tough to dismiss that we may not be able to find another HC QB who lost more games over the course of their career. While he is certainly a great addition to the ranks of HC alumni, I am very much looking forward to seeing someone else get a chance at QB next September. Your issue was not at QB. You should be looking at new HC getting some better OL, WRs, more speed everywhere and better athletes. Agreed. Lots of grape kool aid and purple sunglasses on Crossports and I sip a bit and have donned a pair now and again ...but the biggest blind spot seems to be recruit quality. Given the string of bad seasons, coaching turmoil and this year's accelerated recruit timeline, this will not be an easy fix.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 11:04:19 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Nov 12, 2017 11:04:19 GMT -5
Here’s a fact, without opinion:
PP was the quarterback for basically 4+ years in a spread offense hinged primarily on his arm. One really can’t help having impressive numbers in that context. Other good HC QBs who have ridden the bench might have also had some success if they were chosen. Wade, for one, did well when thrust into action.
Agree, Pine is on the clock. This is a gut renovation. Better get something done soon to avoid The Massacre in Chestnut Hill.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 11:26:13 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 12, 2017 11:26:13 GMT -5
Another fact--Peter Pujals never played defense, so shouldn't he be judged on how the offense performed? Did our offense execute well/score more points per game than the typical team when he was on the field? Isn't that a better measure of an offensive player's success than the team's W-L record? I suppose he had small responsibility for opponent points if he threw interceptions or fumbled, but that's hard to quantify......
EDIT: Of course I know that no QB is 100% responsible for the team's offense--you have the line, receivers, backs, OC, etc...
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Post by bigfan on Nov 12, 2017 11:40:07 GMT -5
People talk about getting better recruits which I also agree, the real problem is the Patriot League. The recruits do not look highly on the league, the better athletes look for a better league.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 11:57:08 GMT -5
Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 12, 2017 11:57:08 GMT -5
4th and 1, shotgun (stupid, to start) play action (not so bad), takes a sack for a loss (brutal) should be a fire-able offense for any coach. It should also result in a permaban... for you older folks that don't peruse the internet much outside of Crossports, it means GTFO and never come back. These stupid, dimwit plays only get bailed out if/when they work. And they would need that execution to look useful. Otherwise, it's terrible.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 12:18:25 GMT -5
Post by lou on Nov 12, 2017 12:18:25 GMT -5
People talk about getting better recruits which I also agree, the real problem is the Patriot League. The recruits do not look highly on the league, the better athletes look for a better league. Interesting ... how much do you know about recruits? What do recruits think of the Ivy League?
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 12:23:49 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 12, 2017 12:23:49 GMT -5
Another fact--Peter Pujals never played defense, so shouldn't he be judged on how the offense performed? Did our offense execute well/score more points per game than the typical team when he was on the field? Isn't that a better measure of an offensive player's success than the team's W-L record? I suppose he had small responsibility for opponent points if he threw interceptions or fumbled, but that's hard to quantify...... EDIT: Of course I know that no QB is 100% responsible for the team's offense--you have the line, receivers, backs, OC, etc... If a QB throws for 300+ yards and 2-3 TD’s, but the 3rd down conversion rate is poor, we fail to convert game-changing, momentum-swinging plays, can’t keep the defense off the field, and a lot of those stats potentially came with the game out of hand, should judgement of QB play be solely based on those stats?
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 12:37:00 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Nov 12, 2017 12:37:00 GMT -5
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 13:01:58 GMT -5
Post by realism on Nov 12, 2017 13:01:58 GMT -5
Agreed. Lots of grape kool aid and purple sunglasses on Crossports and I sip a bit and have donned a pair now and again ...but the biggest blind spot seems to be recruit quality. Given the string of bad seasons, coaching turmoil and this year's accelerated recruit timeline, this will not be an easy fix. Agreed. Similarly, the scheduling is not as easy a fix as some posters would like to believe. H.C., cannot just "will itself" into something that it's not. Recruiting is an efficient marketplace. It's unclear how long or how much slack recruits will give H.C. to start realizing its newly re-brandrd value proposition rather than selling a vision ? Likewise, "willing" yourself onto the schedules of schools with whom you want to be associated is different than being perceived by the public that you "belong." ( I'm skeptical of how long hc87's assertion will last: that he'd rather be 3-8 against H-Y-P/FBS etc. than the schools populating H.C.'s schedules in recent years. How long does that last before "same old, with added body bags" is just not worth it ? ) ADNP's "re-branding tricks" can backfire. ( Can ADNP find a new gig by then ? ) There's a finite time window for a new coach to steward these components of the transition into a "new brand." And before the window closes, various H.C. constituencies have to feel the program is providing a reasonable "ROI." ADNP, through his errant decision-making and consequent program asynchronization, hasn't exactly provided wind at the back for the new coach. As others have said, ADNP has wasted some of his chits. He's "on the clock" now. And the widow for the new coach is finite.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 13:03:26 GMT -5
Post by gks on Nov 12, 2017 13:03:26 GMT -5
Recruits look much more highly on the Ivy League. Just use the eyeball test and look at the talent.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 12, 2017 13:16:45 GMT -5
After over 50 years in education and sports, I know of very few recruits who give a damn about most college leagues. They do care about the school/team that is recruiting them. If a league is a factor at all, it is a minor one to recruits. That seems to be ignored here and I am not sure why.
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 13:37:02 GMT -5
Post by lou on Nov 12, 2017 13:37:02 GMT -5
Recruits look much more highly on the Ivy League. Just use the eyeball test and look at the talent. Right, so what's wrong with Patriot League football to a recruit, free education at great institutions?
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Lehigh
Nov 12, 2017 13:52:58 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by joe on Nov 12, 2017 13:52:58 GMT -5
In my experience football recruits want the following from a program, and in this order:
1. Confidence that he will get on the field early and often, in meaningful way, and at his desired position. 2. Chance to play at the most highly regarded/competitive Division (as in 3, 2, 1 FCS, 1 FBS) 3. Best chance to win league championships/compete for a national title 4. Feeling of connection with existing players based on recruiting visits 5. Feeling of enthusiasm about and support for football from the school. Facilities and gameday environment enter here. 4. For some, confidence that from among the best football schools recruiting them, that they are getting best possible education.
For some, like the pool from which HC is recruiting, #4 might be higher up, but this is not the norm. For many, woven into this is also his family’s financial need relative to what an individual school might be offering in terms of aid/scholarship. These two caveats, and the #@*&$~!ty state and self-imposed handicaps of PL football, is why we cannot outrecruit the IL.
If NP doesn’t understand this I would be shocked. Who is he going to find to lead the purple? Who is up to the task? Who out there is such an incredible coach that he can make this thing work within the confines of Patriot League football.
Clock is ticking.
We need to exit this league, boys.
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