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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 7, 2017 12:44:18 GMT -5
Holy Cross football needs to drop the Patriot League. The conference is terrible. There are no rivalries, no excitement and no recognition. If they want more people to go to games, you need a reason for people to go. Right now the Patriot League is a joke. All it is doing is holding back the crusaders. If they go independent, they can play FBS teams like UConn, UMass, and Boston College more regularly. Also they can still play a patriot league team or two. Really a new conference needs to be founded. It should have Holy Cross, Umass, Boston College, Uconn, and any other teams in the northeast you want. Maybe Maine, Rhode Island or New Hampshire.
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Post by lou on Dec 7, 2017 12:53:42 GMT -5
all lower case, sounds like bring"back"caro, any relation?
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Post by timholycross on Dec 7, 2017 12:58:20 GMT -5
Better chance of HC leaving the PL for the CAA if and when a JMU and/or someone else moves up to BCS....and even those chances are pretty slim.
Independent CANNOT WORK any more.
And you would find them jumping off bridges in Storrs and Chestnut Hill if their folks ever agreed on joining the rest of those schools for ANYTHING.
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Post by inhocsigno on Dec 7, 2017 12:58:49 GMT -5
maybe we should worry about winning the PL instead of leaving it at this point. A couple of playoff wins and we can discuss.
BTW - why would BC leave a P5 conference to join this newly formed NECFC (New England College Football Conference).
Obviously, that name would not be used, as New England does not exactly endear the league to warm weather recruits. Maybe they can call it the colonial league, or the Yankee Conference, or the Patriot League.
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 7, 2017 15:10:25 GMT -5
The odds of BC leaving the ACC are the same as me going the Caitlyn Jenner route.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 7, 2017 15:26:05 GMT -5
The odds of BC leaving the ACC are the same as me going the Caitlyn Jenner route. Frightening. I don't know what you look like, but for some reason I don't think I'd want to see you as a woman.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 7, 2017 15:31:52 GMT -5
BC doesn't belong in the ACC in football or basketball. Last four years in conference play. Football 15-25 Basketball 6-48
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 7, 2017 16:58:18 GMT -5
Last eight years in ACC: $ $$ $$$ $$$$ $$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$
National profile ^^^^^^^^^
Any other questions?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 7, 2017 17:06:50 GMT -5
Holy Cross football needs to drop the Patriot League. The conference is terrible. There are no rivalries, no excitement and no recognition. If they want more people to go to games, you need a reason for people to go. Right now the Patriot League is a joke. All it is doing is holding back the crusaders. If they go independent, they can play FBS teams like UConn, UMass, and Boston College more regularly. Also they can still play a patriot league team or two. Really a new conference needs to be founded. It should have Holy Cross, Umass, Boston College, Uconn, and any other teams in the northeast you want. Maybe Maine, Rhode Island or New Hampshire. Because we've been unable to schedule these teams while members of the PL? We somewhat recently played a four-game series with UMass and just scheduled BC and UConn twice each. With regards to the remainder of the post, you're either extremely out of touch with the realities of the college football landscape in New England or should have just said, "I think applying for CAA membership would be a good idea."
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 7, 2017 17:12:25 GMT -5
BC doesn't belong in the ACC in football or basketball. Last four years in conference play. Football 15-25 Basketball 6-48 Almost all the schools they used to play in football in the old Big East are in the ACC. Plus ND has an ACC scheduling agreement with the conference. I do believe they are a bit of a misfit in hoops. Their real rivals were always PC and UConn, maybe to some extent Georgetown and Nova -- and obviously at one time another Jesuit school located in Worcester. But I don't think the ACC is the reason they have been unsuccessful of late. I'm sure their alum and fans don't mind playing in a hoops conference with UNC, Notre Dame, Duke, Pitt and Syracuse.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 7, 2017 17:22:03 GMT -5
BC doesn't belong in the ACC in football or basketball. Last four years in conference play. Football 15-25 Basketball 6-48 "I'm sure their alum and fans don't mind playing in a hoops conference with UNC, Notre Dame, Duke, Pitt and Syracuse." Do you really think their fans don't mind seeing them get pounded in the ACC? That only works if you are rooting for their opponents more than for the Eagles. Yes, the school gets money by being part of the ACC. Until things turn around, it is as if they are paid to lose to the big name schools you cite in order to to bring in money for BC Sports.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 7, 2017 17:43:14 GMT -5
"I'm sure their alum and fans don't mind playing in a hoops conference with UNC, Notre Dame, Duke, Pitt and Syracuse." Do you really think their fans don't mind seeing them get pounded in the ACC? That only works if you are rooting for their opponents more than for the Eagles. Yes, the school gets money by being part of the ACC. Until things turn around, it is as if they are paid to lose to the big name schools you cite in order to to bring in money for BC Sports. But the issue isn't that BC hoops can't possibly compete in today's ACC. The issues currently surrounding the program are institutional (sound familiar?). The Big East circa 2004 was no slouch by any means but the team was competitive because they had good coaching and numerous players who were at least fringe NBA-caliber. I highly doubt there is any conference that BC fans and alum would rather be in than the ACC right now and in the future. For basketball and football.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 8, 2017 0:03:54 GMT -5
I've thrown this out before and I agree....HC football would be far better off as an FBS Indy....sure we'd take our bumps but do you really think we get more "bang for our buck" as a PL football membah than we would as an FBS Indy?
11 game schedule....play New England FBS schools (BC, UConn and UMass), a service academy, a couple lower level FBS programs, a few Ivies, a couple CAA schools...basically the schedules we played in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s....
Logistical nightmare perhaps....but it beats the death spiral the program is in now.
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Post by deep Purple on Dec 8, 2017 1:15:26 GMT -5
Going fbs requires a schedule consisting of 60% fbs games.
They would need long term home and home games against BC, UConn, UMass, Army and one more school (Buffalo, Akron, Syracuse, etc)
Then pay UNH, Maine, URI, etc to come to Fitton. The ivy’s don’t play fbs teams.
And schedule three P5 powers who will pay serious bucks to beat the nasal goo out of us in order to collect an easy fbs win counting toward bowl eligibility.
Easier said than done, but they could do it if they really wanted to.
Another option would be to have discussions with some CAA members to form a fbs football only conference. UMass and Army might be on board with that, but the CAA teams would need to renovate their stadiums to average the required attendance of 15k/year. I doubt the PL would be ok with staying in the league for other sports.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 8, 2017 6:29:28 GMT -5
I've thrown this out before and I agree....HC football would be far better off as an FBS Indy....sure we'd take our bumps but do you really think we get more "bang for our buck" as a PL football membah than we would as an FBS Indy? 11 game schedule....play New England FBS schools (BC, UConn and UMass), a service academy, a couple lower level FBS programs, a few Ivies, a couple CAA schools...basically the schedules we played in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.... Logistical nightmare perhaps....but it beats the death spiral the program is in now. Stop with the mental onanism. An upgrade to FBS would cost about double what HC now spends on football. (You'd also have to increase scollies for women's sports.) And increased revenues would nowhere come close to covering the increased cost. 15,000 x 5 games x $25 average ticket price = $1.9 million. To be a member of FBS, home attendance (paid/actual) needs to average 15,000. A multi-million dollar upgrade to Fitton to improve the facility would be in order to even hope to get attendance to that level. Persist in these grandiose delusions and suggestions that you seek professional help may be in order.
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Post by richh on Dec 8, 2017 9:30:42 GMT -5
If you cant win in PL what on earth leads anyone to believe that you could win in the FBS. Why not build a winning program first. It is a poor myth to claim that PL is holding Cross back. PL has ,I agree,asinine Ivy Lite rules that impacts all teams not just Cross. The state of PL football today is due to a number of factors, our rules being only one of them. The primary cause is the slow transition by most staffs to recruiting the right players. The 1st 2-3 years most recruited the same pool of kids as earlier while throwing out offers to top level kids which we didnt get. The last 2 classes and current verbals evidence that coaches have learned whot to recruit and are now getting them. The downside,as we saw this year, is that it is hard to compete vs OOC when the majority of your best players are frosh and sophs. For Cross, becoming a 2nd UMASS seems to be a step down not up for your program.
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Post by Tom on Dec 8, 2017 9:32:00 GMT -5
Really a new conference needs to be founded. It should have Holy Cross, Umass, Boston College, Uconn, and any other teams in the northeast you want. Maybe Maine, Rhode Island or New Hampshire. This doesn't seem feasible. I assume this conference would be FBS and you're not hoping that UMass, BC, and UConn drop to FCS. We would still need the likes of Maine, UNH, and URI to jump up to FBS or it would be a very small conference. This is not a case of "if you build it they will come". I am sure if HC somehow jumped to D-IA, more fans would show up, but not in those numbers. When HC was forced to drop to I-AA football, I don't think they were pulling in 15,000 for a non-BC game. When HC instituted the Circle of Honor and had a night game a few years back, a little research shows attendance at 12,300. By fuzzy memory, the later days of HC in D-IA football weren't drawing much better than that for a non-BC game. The environment has changed. People would rather sit at home and watch Alabama or Ohio St than go to a non Top 25 game in person. I don't see a consistent 15,000 showing up at Fitton, even if it was an FBS schedule of New England opponents IF you could get UConn and BC to give up their current league dollars, and IF you could get enough other schools to jump up to FBS football to create a conference, and IF you could convince 15,000 people to show up regularly, and IF the U Maine, UNH and the other schools can also convince 15,000 people to show at their stadiums this might work. That's a lot of if's. The odds of this happening are probably better than me hitting Powerball this weekend, but the are still too remote to consider the idea realistic
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 8, 2017 9:38:17 GMT -5
If we can't win in the very league you disparage, then we shouldn't entertain such elitist and disconnected ideas. This is like the Browns crying that they should leave the AFC because it's a crappy conference and they'll never win there, while surrounded by strong, successful teams. It's not the league's fault, it's the BROWNS fault. It's not the PL's fault. It's OUR fault. Stop making excuses it's embarrassing.
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Post by richh on Dec 8, 2017 11:20:43 GMT -5
If we can't win in the very league you disparage, then we shouldn't entertain such elitist and disconnected ideas. This is like the Browns crying that they should leave the AFC because it's a crappy conference and they'll never win there, while surrounded by strong, successful teams. It's not the league's fault, it's the BROWNS fault. It's not the PL's fault. It's OUR fault. Stop making excuses it's embarrassing. Yup.
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Post by joe on Dec 8, 2017 11:27:54 GMT -5
For HC to win in the PL, the handcuffs need to be taken off. There is too much parity among schools for any school to be able to play by different rules.
Cases in point: 1. Georgetown regularly stinking with no schollies. 2. HC regularly mediocre with tougher-than-necessary admissions standards. 3. HC and Fordham's previous periods of dominance when they had schollies and no one else did. Sorry for the dose of reality on that one. The PL is like a stock car race, and HC is the car running with bald tires, and for no good reason.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 8, 2017 11:31:56 GMT -5
Stop making excuses it's embarrassing. Stop acting like playing in the Patriot League is an honor. Wow it is really exciting to have home football games against Lafayette and Georgetown. Why not get into a conference that cares. A conference that has television exposure and actual fans that go to games.
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Post by lou on Dec 8, 2017 11:45:17 GMT -5
Stop acting like playing in the Patriot League is an honor. Wow it is really exciting to have home football games against Lafayette and Georgetown. Why not get into a conference that cares. A conference that has television exposure and actual fans that go to games. You know I'm starting to agree with you ... that awful loss to Lafayette was brutal and not exciting at all, unless you were routing for Laffy
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 8, 2017 12:12:27 GMT -5
For HC to win in the PL, the handcuffs need to be taken off. There is too much parity among schools for any school to be able to play by different rules.
Cases in point: 1. Georgetown regularly stinking with no schollies. 2. HC regularly mediocre with tougher-than-necessary admissions standards. 3. HC and Fordham's previous periods of dominance when they had schollies and no one else did. Sorry for the dose of reality on that one. The PL is like a stock car race, and HC is the car running with bald tires, and for no good reason.
What tougher than necessary admission standards does HC have? It is harder to get into Lehigh, Colgate, and Georgetown than it is to get into HC. HC and Lafayette are the same.very slightly ahead of Bucknell Fordham is closing the gap.. The tougher the admissions, the higher the AI. SAT V/M 25th / 75th percentiles for class entering Sept 2016Georgetown 1320/1520 Colgate 1290/1460 Lehigh 1230/1420 Holy Cross 1220/1370 Lafayette 1200/1390 Bucknell 1200/1380 Fordham 1170/1350 (2015-16) Only one of these schools is SAT optional, so the SAT scores are based on a smaller cohort of students for that school. Guess which one. And to rub some salt A (not further identified) school in Chestnut Hill: 1260/1450
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Post by richh on Dec 8, 2017 12:29:08 GMT -5
Stop acting like playing in the Patriot League is an honor. Wow it is really exciting to have home football games against Lafayette and Georgetown. Why not get into a conference that cares. A conference that has television exposure and actual fans that go to games. And where do you find this miraculous haven for Crusaders? It is sadly amusing to read so many posts blaming the PL for all the ills afflicting Cross football. I suggest you look at your own house before denigrating the neighborhood.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 8, 2017 12:37:50 GMT -5
For HC to win in the PL, the handcuffs need to be taken off. There is too much parity among schools for any school to be able to play by different rules.
Cases in point: 1. Georgetown regularly stinking with no schollies. 2. HC regularly mediocre with tougher-than-necessary admissions standards. 3. HC and Fordham's previous periods of dominance when they had schollies and no one else did. Sorry for the dose of reality on that one. The PL is like a stock car race, and HC is the car running with bald tires, and for no good reason.
What tougher than necessary admission standards does HC have? It is harder to get into Lehigh, Colgate, and Georgetown than it is to get into HC. HC and Lafayette are the same.very slightly ahead of Bucknell Fordham is closing the gap.. The tougher the admissions, the higher the AI. SAT V/M 25th / 75th percentiles for class entering Sept 2016Georgetown 1320/1520 Colgate 1290/1460 Lehigh 1230/1420 Holy Cross 1220/1370 Lafayette 1200/1390 Bucknell 1200/1380 Fordham 1170/1350 (2015-16) Only one of these schools is SAT optional, so the SAT scores are based on a smaller cohort of students for that school. Guess which one. And to rub some salt A (not further identified) school in Chestnut Hill: 1260/1450 I'd say the HC-Fordham gap is essentially closed now (average ACT score current data set shows both at a 29) so you are right in suggesting they should have the most recruiting advantages under AI. (And yes, the "Test Score Optional" policy, whereby the stronger students are more likely to submit their test scores, does inflate those Holy Cross test score numbers in any case)
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