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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 4, 2018 12:56:57 GMT -5
Again, it's too early to draw firm conclusions on Coach Carmody's recruiting results. We shouldn't have to keep repeating this. Do you need to see a list of players who became major contributors as juniors and seniors after slow starts?
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Post by nhteamer on Jan 4, 2018 13:06:05 GMT -5
If we had hit the expect 7 or 8 or 9 of our 24 three point attempts we'd have won by 3, 6, or 9 points. It was not Lafayette's defense that caused the misses If we had held Petrie to under 40% from 3, they would have scored 12 less points. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas. fewer
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Post by HC1843 on Jan 4, 2018 13:54:54 GMT -5
If nothing else, it is reassuring to know you thought HC70 was an idiot during the Milan Brown era too. Five years of the insufferable crap.... That being said, and let me know if you have heard this before, BC gets all his guys before we can judge him....maybe even a year or two more. The team is struggling, but, as Ray eloquently points out, for far diffeent reasons, including, among other things, that he was left holding the Milan Brown Era bag....that is a deeper issue than you care to admit. Carry on. Cheers. Not for nothing, but the Milan Brown Era bag of Champion, Malachi, Green, et al is the only reason we have gotten any enjoyment out of HC basketball in the Bill Carmody era. And all those guys, everyone single one took 3 years to develop. And, not for nothing (I say this with love, 92), but Milan did nothing with all those guys....Carmody's run might have been improbable, but he got them there nonetheless. Milan could not, and did not, do any of that even with his best three-piece on. Cheers.
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Post by HC1843 on Jan 4, 2018 14:00:29 GMT -5
Any or all of us that post alternate coaching suggestions would be hesitant to say these things directly to CWC (or Milan or SK or RW) because the presumption is that the obvious rejoinder is "I am the coach, your aren't and I have been coaching X years and you haven't." And all of that would be true and not a question of not having the cojones. But that's why folks with all levels of basketball expertise (expert to "no-nothings") can weigh in here. Crossports is a vehicle for venting. I'm not really trying to defend ncaam or anyone in particular but having an different opinion than the way CWC is coaching and saying so here is not necessarily lacking intestinal fortitude. I have not had a lot of direct conversations with CWC, perhaps 2-3, but I have not a shred of doubt what his reaction to alternative coaching suggestions would get you. We can agree to disagree. Having a different opinion on coaching decisions is one thing, calling another man lazy on a message board just because you can is another. By way of example, saying a shoot around would have helped loosen the players' shots up is one thing, deciding not to and calling it lazy is an unnecessary (and baseless) attack. Cheers.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 4, 2018 14:52:53 GMT -5
Not for nothing, but the Milan Brown Era bag of Champion, Malachi, Green, et al is the only reason we have gotten any enjoyment out of HC basketball in the Bill Carmody era. And all those guys, everyone single one took 3 years to develop. And, not for nothing (I say this with love, 92), but Milan did nothing with all those guys....Carmody's run might have been improbable, but he got them there nonetheless. Milan could not, and did not, do any of that even with his best three-piece on. Cheers. Are you actually suggesting that Carmody has been effectively developing talent, despite a glaring need to play freshmen for a ton of minutes because none of the guys that he recruited in hist first 1.5 classes have developed beyond where they were when they arrived at HC?
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Post by possum on Jan 4, 2018 15:08:04 GMT -5
KY you're right the final grade for the sophomore class will come after 4 years however the interim grade shows the class did not contribute to last years team and has not contributed to this years team thus leaving the program with two empty classes rather than one.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 4, 2018 15:26:26 GMT -5
Not for nothing, but the Milan Brown Era bag of Champion, Malachi, Green, et al is the only reason we have gotten any enjoyment out of HC basketball in the Bill Carmody era. And all those guys, everyone single one took 3 years to develop. And, not for nothing (I say this with love, 92), but Milan did nothing with all those guys....Carmody's run might have been improbable, but he got them there nonetheless. Milan could not, and did not, do any of that even with his best three-piece on. Cheers. I’m not defending Milan. Just responding to the notion that Carmody’s struggles are attributable to Milan. I think more of Carmody’s success (the great run to the Dance in Year 1) is attributable to Milan than his failure (what we have seen the last two years).
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Post by ncaam on Jan 4, 2018 17:16:20 GMT -5
FCMB left the cupboard bare? Nay, nay nay. It was CBC himself. No Hahn, no Proctor, not Kostecka, all pretty good FCMB recruits. Instead we "whiffed". MM in the NBA. DD touring Europe and making a good living. Matt Husek's Dad was at the Lafayette game. Said Matt is #5 scorer in his pro league (don't know how good a league it is). Five wins in March with FCMB players for a coach who did not think a team like that should go to the dance because they did not win their league. CBC has most of his own players and those who are holdovers are better than his recruits. At least FCMB was smart enough to have shoot arounds. Think Larry Bird here..."Veterans and rookies alike knew Bird had been obsessed with practice when he was with the Celtics, often showing up hours early so he could work on every face of his game. Other NBA coaches had used Bird as an example of a superb work ethics. One brought his team to Boston Garden early to see number 33 in action. To his amazement, Larry wasn't on the court. Embarrassed, the coach headed for the sidelines before looking up to see Bird running on the track. He was working on his conditioning that day."
20 wins baby!!!!! The Golden era!
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 4, 2018 17:29:52 GMT -5
Jeez - too bad all that talent was wasted by a coach who couldn't win squat in the PL tourney.
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Post by HC1843 on Jan 4, 2018 17:35:18 GMT -5
FCMB left the cupboard bare? Nay, nay nay. It was CBC himself. No Hahn, no Proctor, not Kostecka, all pretty good FCMB recruits. Instead we "whiffed". MM in the NBA. DD touring Europe and making a good living. Matt Husek's Dad was at the Lafayette game. Said Matt is #5 scorer in his pro league (don't know how good a league it is). Five wins in March with FCMB players for a coach who did not think a team like that should go to the dance because they did not win their league. CBC has most of his own players and those who are holdovers are better than his recruits. At least FCMB was smart enough to have shoot arounds. Think Larry Bird here..."Veterans and rookies alike knew Bird had been obsessed with practice when he was with the Celtics, often showing up hours early so he could work on every face of his game. Other NBA coaches had used Bird as an example of a superb work ethics. One brought his team to Boston Garden early to see number 33 in action. To his amazement, Larry wasn't on the court. Embarrassed, the coach headed for the sidelines before looking up to see Bird running on the track. He was working on his conditioning that day." 20 wins baby!!!!! The Golden era! I never said Milan left it bare, but at least Carmody got something out of them. DD was not a Milan recruit. He had to retain him, but it is stretching to say DD was Milan's recruit. Even that old windbag HC70, wherever he is now, though he struggled with the notion, agreed DD was Kearney's. Cheerios.
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Post by HC1843 on Jan 4, 2018 17:41:17 GMT -5
And all those guys, everyone single one took 3 years to develop. And, not for nothing (I say this with love, 92), but Milan did nothing with all those guys....Carmody's run might have been improbable, but he got them there nonetheless. Milan could not, and did not, do any of that even with his best three-piece on. Cheers. Are you actually suggesting that Carmody has been effectively developing talent, despite a glaring need to play freshmen for a ton of minutes because none of the guys that he recruited in hist first 1.5 classes have developed beyond where they were when they arrived at HC? This is an artful deflection. Well, we have no seniors, so, yes, he has not developed that class. The sophs have another year to show up. The Juniors are not getting it done, and the freshmen, considering they are frosh, are doing quite well for otherwise carrying the team. Let's not forget all the apoplectic keyboard strikes people made about Champion for 2 years. It was brutal.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 4, 2018 18:21:26 GMT -5
I would say this staff has certainly developed JF.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 4, 2018 18:29:30 GMT -5
Despite the 3-10/0-2 record and the insanity around the travel, stealing a win tomorrow in PA against the doctor will help right the ship— long shot perhaps, but in the words of one Jackie Gleason we might all be saying “how sweet it is”
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Post by dadominate on Jan 4, 2018 18:32:11 GMT -5
FCMB left the cupboard bare? Nay, nay nay. It was CBC himself. No Hahn, no Proctor, not Kostecka, all pretty good FCMB recruits. Instead we "whiffed". MM in the NBA. DD touring Europe and making a good living. Matt Husek's Dad was at the Lafayette game. Said Matt is #5 scorer in his pro league (don't know how good a league it is). Five wins in March with FCMB players for a coach who did not think a team like that should go to the dance because they did not win their league. CBC has most of his own players and those who are holdovers are better than his recruits. At least FCMB was smart enough to have shoot arounds. Think Larry Bird here..."Veterans and rookies alike knew Bird had been obsessed with practice when he was with the Celtics, often showing up hours early so he could work on every face of his game. Other NBA coaches had used Bird as an example of a superb work ethics. One brought his team to Boston Garden early to see number 33 in action. To his amazement, Larry wasn't on the court. Embarrassed, the coach headed for the sidelines before looking up to see Bird running on the track. He was working on his conditioning that day." 20 wins baby!!!!! The Golden era! congratulations! you were not only the first crossports poster to be banned, the first banned poster to circumvent board rules to stubbornly come back by using proxy servers, widely known by almost every poster to still be utilizing numerous aliases to parrot your own opinions, were the cause for the creation of the ignore poster button, unquestionably the holder of the most ignored poster award, but you also just composed what was by my count already the most disliked post in crossports history. what a distinguished track record!
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Post by ncaam on Jan 4, 2018 18:40:10 GMT -5
Great counter argument. You were on my ignore list for a long time. Time to reprise that role.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 4, 2018 18:55:57 GMT -5
Are you actually suggesting that Carmody has been effectively developing talent, despite a glaring need to play freshmen for a ton of minutes because none of the guys that he recruited in hist first 1.5 classes have developed beyond where they were when they arrived at HC? This is an artful deflection. Well, we have no seniors, so, yes, he has not developed that class. The sophs have another year to show up. The Juniors are not getting it done, and the freshmen, considering they are frosh, are doing quite well for otherwise carrying the team. Let's not forget all the apoplectic keyboard strikes people made about Champion for 2 years. It was brutal. The play of the freshmen is being over-exaggerated by people who have set the bar incredibly low. They have shown some flashes, but there is currently nobody in the group who looks like he will be a sure-fire All-PL player at some point in their career. "Carrying the team" to a 3-10 record is not exactly a notable accomplishment.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 4, 2018 18:57:29 GMT -5
I would say this staff has certainly developed JF. Give them an extension! How about developing any of their guys (Charles, Zignorski, Le Seann, Stevens, Cohen)? Floyd came to HC with raw athleticism and skills that no Carmody recruits have even remotely come close to. Projecting his "development" to the entire roster is a fool's errand.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 4, 2018 19:09:54 GMT -5
Wasn't projecting anything. Simply making an observation.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 4, 2018 19:22:54 GMT -5
I would say this staff has certainly developed JF. Give them an extension! How about developing any of their guys (Charles, Zignorski, Le Seann, Stevens, Cohen)? Floyd came to HC with raw athleticism and skills that no Carmody recruits have even remotely come close to. Projecting his "development" to the entire roster is a fool's errand. I think your agenda blinds you to the facts. I don't think anyone would disagree that JF arrived on campus with "raw athleticism", but I think the skills we see now were not evident his freshman season. Hasn't he developed some highly effective moves near the basket that were first demonstrated this season? Do you think he found them on the Internet? I have to think the staff has something to do with his own ncreased skills
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Post by possum on Jan 4, 2018 19:34:32 GMT -5
I have been critical of Carmody's recruiting in particular last years class but would agree staff has done a nice job developing Floyd.
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Post by dadominate on Jan 4, 2018 19:37:08 GMT -5
who on our coaching staff works the most with the bigs? floyd was as raw as they come when he came to hc, and the improvements in his footwork and arsenal of low-post moves have been dramatic.
while i am happy with his great strides in his offensive game this year and would love to see him get the ball more around the basket, he will be even more dangerous and valuable to the team if he can develop a jumper over the summer. opponents now know full well he isn't going to shoot from the perimeter (let alone hit a shot), and it allows defenses to sag way off of him, thereby limiting opportunities for our guys on the wing to have open lanes for cuts to the hole and the easy baskets that typically result in this offense.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 4, 2018 19:54:55 GMT -5
JF might also want to work on his free throws. Playing underneath he will get fouled and if he cannot capitalize on those FTs, fouling him may become a key defensive strategy (as some say it was against RJ).
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 4, 2018 19:57:22 GMT -5
Maybe he could practice free throws? If he could hit them with regularity, he would be much more potent and if he could hit from the free throw line, he could take 2 point shots from that distance.
Edit: crapola, Rob had the same thought but beat me to the post.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 4, 2018 20:00:01 GMT -5
Great minds often think alike!
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Post by HC1843 on Jan 4, 2018 20:03:56 GMT -5
This is an artful deflection. Well, we have no seniors, so, yes, he has not developed that class. The sophs have another year to show up. The Juniors are not getting it done, and the freshmen, considering they are frosh, are doing quite well for otherwise carrying the team. Let's not forget all the apoplectic keyboard strikes people made about Champion for 2 years. It was brutal. The play of the freshmen is being over-exaggerated by people who have set the bar incredibly low. They have shown some flashes, but there is currently nobody in the group who looks like he will be a sure-fire All-PL player at some point in their career. "Carrying the team" to a 3-10 record is not exactly a notable accomplishment. They are freshmen...I know you are thick, so i forgive your failure to comprehend my point.
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