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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2017 14:03:23 GMT -5
1958 Syracuse football team Beat BC 24-14 Beat Cornell 55-0 Beat Nebraska 38-0 Beat Penn State 14-6 Beat Pitt 16-13 Beat Boston U 42-0 Beat Colgate 47-0 Beat West Virginia 15-12 Lost to #5 Oklahoma (Orange Bowl) 6-21 (Oklahoma had only one loss that year, to Texas at the Cotton Bowl stadium in Dallas 14-15) Oh, and ah......... Syracuse also lost to some school in Woostah 13-14 That, forum posters, is football relevance. As I've said here or in the Orange Bowl thread, the 1987 team (imo) was the best HC team in terms of relative strength in the East in any given year since the last few teams of the Eddie Anderson era of the late 50s/ early 60s/
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 14:08:20 GMT -5
According to Sports Reference, the ‘66 team was 38th of 119 Dartmouth finished at 20. If the best win of the 87 team was Army, they finished 55th of 104. Pretty convincing The Colgate team we tied in 66 was ranked 9th, 8-1-1. Army was 14th. so the only bad game was the loss to a 5-5 Buffalo team ranked 55th Sports reference does not list any team after 1981(1AA-FCS years)
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Post by hcpride on Dec 31, 2017 15:06:46 GMT -5
According to Sports Reference, the ‘66 team was 38th of 119 Dartmouth finished at 20. If the best win of the 87 team was Army, they finished 55th of 104. Pretty convincing The Colgate team we tied in 66 was ranked 9th, 8-1-1. Army was 14th. so the only bad game was the loss to a 5-5 Buffalo team ranked 55thSports reference does not list any team after 1981(1AA-FCS years) The "Sports Reference" numbers are not rankings (Colgate ranked 9th in US in 1966?) and are always shaky. I think they are based mostly on raw W-L record and not really strength of schedule. Bolded is what makes an '66 - '87 comparison difficult for the '66ers because one can't point to any bad losses for '87 team.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 15:31:47 GMT -5
The "Sports Reference" numbers are not rankings (Colgate ranked 9th in US in 1966?) and are always shaky. I think they are based mostly on raw W-L record and not really strength of schedule. Bolded is what makes an '66 - '87 comparison difficult for the '66ers because one can't point to any bad losses for '87 team. I am arguing that one bad loss, one tie vs a good team, and 2 impressive wins (plus 4 others) beats out one win against a mediocre Army and 10 big wins vs pretty weak to very weak teams.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 31, 2017 16:36:21 GMT -5
I fall in the middle between the 1966 and 1987 teams. Based on the cases presented above, I think I'd vote for the 1966 team, even though the 1987 squad put up extraordinary numbers (552 yards and 46.5 points per game)
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2017 16:45:55 GMT -5
All due respect, the '66 BC win was not really impressive (beside emotionally). Dartmouth a nice win but they were just tri-Ivy champs that year. The 4 other wins were ovah BU 17-14, UMass 16-14, Rutgers (who were basically playing an Ivy/Patriot schedule then) 24-12 and UConn (who was 2-6-1 that year) 16-0.
Different era admittedly but the 87 team beat common opponents of '66: UMass 54-10, Colgate 49-7 and Army 34-24. Beat an 8-2 Harvard team 41-6. A William&Mary team that beat Navy that year 40-7.
Admittedly not a murderer's row of opponents but you can only play the games you have scheduled. I'm just of the opinion that the '87 team had an overall more impressive season than the '66 team did.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 16:50:39 GMT -5
Umass, gate and army in. 87 had the same names, but none was nearly as strong as in 66. 87 still did not have a win as impressive as BC or Dartmouth, no matter how you slice it.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2017 17:00:06 GMT -5
Again, it pains me to say it, but the BC win in '66 was really not that impressive...probably one of the weaker BC teams of that era. UMass, as a program in 1987, was very similar to where they were in 1966 and Army was still relatively strong as a program in 1987, coming off bowl appearances in the mid 80s.
No doubt that the '66 schedule was stronger overall but take out Syracuse and it is not the quantum leap in strength of schedule that you purport.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 17:24:20 GMT -5
Again, it pains me to say it, but the BC win in '66 was really not that impressive...probably one of the weaker BC teams of that era. UMass, as a program in 1987, was very similar to where they were in 1966 and Army was still relatively strong as a program in 1987, coming off bowl appearances in the mid 80s. No doubt that the '66 schedule was stronger overall but take out Syracuse and it is not the quantum leap in strength of schedule that you purport. Army may have been coming off bowl games, but their record was 5-6 in 87 no matter how often you downplay the win over BC, both that win and the Dartmouth win were better wins than any in 87, and you have not refuted that.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 17:37:24 GMT -5
All due respect, the '66 BC win was not really impressive (beside emotionally). Dartmouth a nice win but they were just tri-Ivy champs that year. The 4 other wins were ovah BU 17-14, UMass 16-14, Rutgers (who were basically playing an Ivy/Patriot schedule then) 24-12 and UConn (who was 2-6-1 that year) 16-0. Different era admittedly but the 87 team beat common opponents of '66: UMass 54-10, Colgate 49-7 and Army 34-24. Beat an 8-2 Harvard team 41-6. A William&Mary team that beat Navy that year 40-7. Navy was 4-6 that year. Umass was 3-8
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2017 17:50:09 GMT -5
Again, it pains me to say it, but the BC win in '66 was really not that impressive...probably one of the weaker BC teams of that era. UMass, as a program in 1987, was very similar to where they were in 1966 and Army was still relatively strong as a program in 1987, coming off bowl appearances in the mid 80s. No doubt that the '66 schedule was stronger overall but take out Syracuse and it is not the quantum leap in strength of schedule that you purport. Army may have been coming off bowl games, but their record was 5-6 in 87 no matter how often you downplay the win over BC, both that win and the Dartmouth win were better wins than any in 87, and you have not refuted that. The BC win in '66 is more significant in a rivalry sense but it really isn't that much better a win (if at all) than the 1987 win at Army. Holy Cross dominated that game, up 27-7 at H, 34-10 late before allowing 2 TDs with back-ups in. That Army team won at Kansas St 41-14 the following week. The Ivy League was better in 1966 than 1987 but not by quantum leaps. We beat a good 8-2 Harvard squad 41-6 that year. I don't think those two wins (which were blowouts in '87) are substantially that much different than the 2 wins you keep pointing to in 1966.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 18:00:40 GMT -5
You can make Army in 87 sound good, but their record was 5-6. Rivalry aside, the BC 66 win was superior. and what 87 win can better the Dartmouth 66 win ? The Ivies in 66 were significantly stronger than in 87 when they were also in div 1aa with the rest of the schedule outside of Army.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2017 18:09:30 GMT -5
Again, all in good fun on a frigid weekend. But here is the BC schedule in 1966, they were actually bordering on being a bad team that year:
LSat, September 17@ Navy 7 - 27Annapolis, MDSeries LSat, September 24vs Ohio 14 - 23Chestnut Hill, MASeries WSat, October 1vs VMI 14 - 0Chestnut Hill, MASeries LSat, October 8@ Penn St 21 - 30State College, PASeries LSat, October 15vs Syracuse 0 - 30Chestnut Hill, MASeries WSat, October 22vs Buffalo 22 - 21Chestnut Hill, MASeries WSat, November 5vs William & Mary 15 - 13Chestnut Hill, MASeries LSat, November 12@ Villanova 0 - 19Villanova, PASeries WSat, November 19@ Massachusetts 14 - 7Amherst, MASeries LSat, November 26vs Holy Cross 26 - 32Chestnut Hill, MA
Why is this win superior to the Army 1987 win? (Outside of rivalry purposes?)
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Post by hchoops on Dec 31, 2017 19:47:24 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Dec 31, 2017 19:59:32 GMT -5
87 or 66 ?
Well 11-0 v 6-3-1 pretty much sums up which HC team was more successful.
As to which team would win if they could magically play head to head - gotta go with the more modern team (bigger, faster, stronger).
As to which team played stronger opponents (win or lose BTW) relative to their time - gotta go with the pure D-1 team of '66.
As to which team completely dominated their opponents every single game - gotta go with the 11-0 team.
(Leaving aside questions regarding # of NFL drafted players or Heisman finalists or who ended Dartmouth's 11-game win streak, or who had an 11 game win streak of their own, etc.)
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