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Post by hc811215 on Feb 14, 2018 16:29:24 GMT -5
Not necessarily a straw man argument. Remember not too long ago when Muslim students at Georgetown wanted crucifixes taken down on their DC campus? I must have missed the news about HC students complaining about the name of the college. To my knowledge, this has never happened and unless it has, they should not be criticized for positions they haven't taken.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 14, 2018 16:53:35 GMT -5
Do you remember what happened at Georgetown? If it could happen at one Jesuit college it could take place at others. The Georgetown students objected to showing "a cross." Why do you feel the word "cross" in our school name is such a stretch? I guess it would be OK if we never showed the word anywhere.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2018 18:46:12 GMT -5
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Post by HCFC45 on Feb 15, 2018 0:18:28 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Feb 15, 2018 5:50:31 GMT -5
While hate hoaxes run rampant (another topic entirely), this latest incident on its face provides fuel for the crusader=hate crowd. In fact, at least two of the interviewed make the argument that swastika=crusader=hate. And that Holy Cross now has all three. From the article: "Mr. Boehrer said it’s hypocritical of the college to denounce the swastika, a symbol that promotes hate and violence toward Jews, while actively supporting the Crusader moniker, which is another symbol of violence and hate toward Jews and Muslims." (Goes without saying the symbol of the cross and the very name of the college can be tossed into that argument at some point.) Two lighter notes in the article were one student throwing in Trump's name (that is a requirement for the 'hate wave' argument) and the reported College practice of placing alliterative signs indicating that "Hate Happened Here" near the one-inch swastika.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 15, 2018 7:26:59 GMT -5
How convenient that this hate filled message was delivered a day after they wrote the article featuring the same folks complaining about the Crusader decision.
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Post by Tom on Feb 15, 2018 7:34:36 GMT -5
This could be a student upset that the Crusader is being kept and is acting out calling the school a bunch of hating Nazis
This could be a student who likes Nazis saying "Nyah, Nyah we won" to those who opposed to the Crusader
This could have nothing to do with the Crusader debate
It's kind of hard to guess the motives behind this moronic act of vandalism without any facts other than timing of its discovery
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Post by td128 on Feb 15, 2018 9:05:57 GMT -5
“That we need to keep publicly affirming our tolerance highlights the fact that we face serious challenges as we try to reconcile the school that Holy Cross wants to be with the school that it is and has been,” the professor said in an email.
The school that it is and has been?
Are you kidding me?
Put her comment on a low burn and ponder what pearls of wisdom Professor Francis might be sharing with those students currently taking her classes.
IMO, she has NO idea what sort of college Holy Cross is and has been. As such, I believe she owes the administration, the students, and the HC alumni an enormous apology.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 15, 2018 9:42:35 GMT -5
Amen, brother. Political correctness and virtue signaling run amuck again. Will the insanity ever end?
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Post by joutsHC77 on Feb 15, 2018 11:22:24 GMT -5
Ms. Bowles also said she thinks the Crusader moniker prevents students of Muslim and Jewish faith from coming to Holy Cross, “which is a great disservice to the institution in its goal of improving its diversity.”
Ms. Bowles needs to know that HC affirms it is a Catholic college and to populate the school with those who will demand all kinds of special treatment at a Catholic college is ridiculous. Stop placating and groveling to all these people-whiners- and tell them to leave if they don't like it. The diversity issue I've come to understand after reading prior threads about accreditation referred mainly to geographical selection, away from New England and North East, and hiking the ALANA numbers. I know HC has significantly improved the ratio of ALANA students but not so much regarding the geographical selection process.
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Post by crusader12 on Feb 15, 2018 12:59:16 GMT -5
"there was no real forum for conversation" There was literally two public forums about this on campus. With all "panelists" in favor of changing the name btw.....
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Post by DiMarz on Feb 15, 2018 20:19:40 GMT -5
There was a poll on the Facebook site "You're probably from Worcester.." (yes that is how it is spelled) regarding changing the mascot.. The 2 day result was 91% of those who voted were in favor of keeping the current mascot.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 16, 2018 7:35:18 GMT -5
“That we need to keep publicly affirming our tolerance highlights the fact that we face serious challenges as we try to reconcile the school that Holy Cross wants to be with the school that it is and has been,” the professor said in an email. The school that it is and has been? Are you kidding me? Put her comment on a low burn and ponder what pearls of wisdom Professor Francis might be sharing with those students currently taking her classes. IMO, she has NO idea what sort of college Holy Cross is and has been. As such, I believe she owes the administration, the students, and the HC alumni an enormous apology. I’d strongly prefer a letter of resignation to an apology.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 16, 2018 8:01:57 GMT -5
No tolerance of divergent opinions ? The Board voted unanimously to keep the Crusader We can tolerate dissent
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Post by HC13 on Feb 16, 2018 8:06:13 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 16, 2018 8:30:15 GMT -5
"comes from a place of power and privilege" ---- It's amazing how the repetition of a mantra can make it, over time, seem true to so many people.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 16, 2018 8:30:43 GMT -5
A total lack of true leadership in Fenwick has caused a non-issue to snowball out of control.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 16, 2018 8:41:59 GMT -5
Well, if the topic is visited again after 2020 (after the College has secured the donations of alumni/ae who want to keep the Crusader) almost all of the student signatories will be alumni/ae and thus in the group whose opinions they seem to want to exclude from serious decision making. Interesting. On the plus side, the letter was well written and its content nicely expressed. However, it does slant the facts about the open discussion that led to the decision and, clearly, the signatories will not be happy with any option but the one they want, so how "open" can any discussion be with folks who are so opposed to any real difference from their pre-existing opinion? (I doubt that many of them read what is on Crossports or support HC athletics - with that offensive Iggy present, so this post is mainly just to allow me a brief catharsis.)
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Post by alum on Feb 16, 2018 9:00:34 GMT -5
Honestly, why not let this controversy die a natural death. A small minority of students and faculty signed a letter expressing their opinions. I am neither surprised nor disappointed that a percentage of students would disagree with the decision to keep the Crusader. In fact, I would be disappointed if every person on a college campus was of the same mind about something. Complaining that others are expressing their opinions smacks of "snowflakism"(TM) by those here. Just ignore it. It is going to go away.
If you guys don't relax about this, I am going to make up another new term and call you TJW's (Tradition Justice Warriors.) You will think that's fine just like those people who are mocked in certain media as SJW's don't understand why that term is intended to insult them.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 16, 2018 9:00:59 GMT -5
Alum, When the BoT made its decision, I thought the issue had died a natural death. This letter, used to get maximum publicity for the belief of the signatories, seems to be bringing it back to life (with possible protests to look forward to in the future?)
As a post script, I was a college professor myself. I taught undergraduate and graduate students for many years. I am aware that the role of professor carries with it real power to influence students and a "bully pulpit" from which to do just that. It also brings with it the responsibility to avoid using that forum to promote a professor's personal beliefs (while excluding, or placing derogatory labels on, differing opinions). I hope that all the professors/instructors who signed that letter remember that in their Holy Cross classrooms.
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Post by hc811215 on Feb 16, 2018 9:12:31 GMT -5
I have to say I was impressed by the letter and the way these folks are going about presenting their point of view. I think you will see continued pressure on the board to change the visual representation. The board decision left them wide open to this type of critique as they expressly disavowed any association with the historical crusades and pledged to give the old word a new meaning.
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Post by td128 on Feb 16, 2018 9:44:15 GMT -5
A little food for thought that certainly seems applicable to the topic at hand: dailycaller.com/2018/02/15/clarence-thomas-decries-victimhood/Clarence Thomas Decries Victimhood Culture In Rare Public RemarksKEVIN DALEY Supreme Court Reporter 6:11 PM 02/15/2018 Justice Clarence Thomas decried the contemporary culture of victimhood during remarks Thursday, telling an audience at the Library of Congress that constant aggrievement would exhaust the country.
Ever a touchstone for controversy on racial issues, the justice related a story from a recent trip to Kansas, where a black college student told him she was primarily interested in school work, and less interested in the political tumult gripping college campuses.
“At some point we’re going to be fatigued with everybody being a victim,” he said.
Thomas has struck similar chords throughout his public life. He appeared on Laura Ingraham’s Fox News program in November 2017, and suggested contemporary activists could benefit from the example of his grandparents, who exhibited quiet fortitude during the heady days of white supremacy.
He made his Thursday remark in the context of a broader discussion about his childhood. Thomas was born in Georgia’s coastal lowlands among impoverished Gullah-speakers, and spent his childhood working his grandfather’s farm. He likened his upbringing to Kathryn Stockett’s 2009 novel “The Help” as most of the women in his life, including his mother, were domestics in white households.
Given the few options open to blacks in the Jim Crow south, Thomas’ family felt they had no choice but to do the best with what they had. The justice detects the hand of providence in those select opportunities open to him, like parochial education and Savannah’s Carnegie library, which served the black population. “You always have to play the hand you’re dealt,” he said. “If you’re dealt a bad hand, you still have to play it.”
As detailed in his 2008 memoir, he inherited these sensibilities from his grandfather. Thomas was sent to live with his grandparents after a fire ravaged his mother’s home during his childhood.
By Thomas’ telling, his grandfather was the defining figure of his life. When he joined the Supreme Court in 1991, his wife commissioned a bust featuring his grandfather’s favorite quote.
“His favorite quote was ‘Old Man Can’t is dead. I helped bury him,'” Thomas said. (LD edit)
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Post by HCFC45 on Feb 16, 2018 10:35:52 GMT -5
A little food for thought that certainly seems applicable to the topic at hand: dailycaller.com/2018/02/15/clarence-thomas-decries-victimhood/Clarence Thomas Decries Victimhood Culture In Rare Public RemarksKEVIN DALEY Supreme Court Reporter 6:11 PM 02/15/2018 Justice Clarence Thomas decried the contemporary culture of victimhood during remarks Thursday, telling an audience at the Library of Congress that constant aggrievement would exhaust the country.
Ever a touchstone for controversy on racial issues, the justice related a story from a recent trip to Kansas, where a black college student told him she was primarily interested in school work, and less interested in the political tumult gripping college campuses.
“At some point we’re going to be fatigued with everybody being a victim,” he said.
Thomas has struck similar chords throughout his public life. He appeared on Laura Ingraham’s Fox News program in November 2017, and suggested contemporary activists could benefit from the example of his grandparents, who exhibited quiet fortitude during the heady days of white supremacy.
He made his Thursday remark in the context of a broader discussion about his childhood. Thomas was born in Georgia’s coastal lowlands among impoverished Gullah-speakers, and spent his childhood working his grandfather’s farm. He likened his upbringing to Kathryn Stockett’s 2009 novel “The Help” as most of the women in his life, including his mother, were domestics in white households.
Given the few options open to blacks in the Jim Crow south, Thomas’ family felt they had no choice but to do the best with what they had. The justice detects the hand of providence in those select opportunities open to him, like parochial education and Savannah’s Carnegie library, which served the black population. “You always have to play the hand you’re dealt,” he said. “If you’re dealt a bad hand, you still have to play it.”
As detailed in his 2008 memoir, he inherited these sensibilities from his grandfather. Thomas was sent to live with his grandparents after a fire ravaged his mother’s home during his childhood.
By Thomas’ telling, his grandfather was the defining figure of his life. When he joined the Supreme Court in 1991, his wife commissioned a bust featuring his grandfather’s favorite quote.
“His favorite quote was ‘Old Man Can’t is dead. I helped bury him,'” Thomas said. (LD edit) Larry:
I had just read this article earlier this morning and thought the same thing!
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Post by Tom on Feb 16, 2018 12:04:42 GMT -5
I have to say I was impressed by the letter and the way these folks are going about presenting their point of view. I think you will see continued pressure on the board to change the visual representation. The board decision left them wide open to this type of critique as they expressly disavowed any association with the historical crusades and pledged to give the old word a new meaning. Yes, it is a well written and mostly well thought out. But, I don't think these kids get the fact that a very small minority share their opinion. They are correct that there is not consensus, but this is about as close as it can get in the real world, but that the near consensus holds the opposing view
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Post by hcpride on Feb 16, 2018 12:10:30 GMT -5
Alum, When the BoT made its decision, I thought the issue had died a natural death. This letter, used to get maximum publicity for the belief of the signatories, seems to be bringing it back to life (with possible protests to look forward to in the future?) Agree wholeheartedly. Trajectories of controversies such as this rarely bend towards the status quo when all is said and done. Typical snowflake verbal arsenal to eventually achieve their aims includes charges of racism, hate, othering, classism, exclusion, white privilege, hate (again - cause it is a campus favorite), etc. etc.
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