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Post by jkh67 on Feb 12, 2019 9:08:37 GMT -5
Congrats. A great group of recruits this year. Chesney is one heck of a recruiter. Maybe we can ask him to recruit for basketball in his spare time.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 12, 2019 9:30:49 GMT -5
Harvard ranked #1, Yale #6, Princeton #7. Western Carolina #10, top recruit is Christian Harris. Penn #15, Dartmouth #19.
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Post by breezy on Feb 12, 2019 9:47:02 GMT -5
Before we get too wrapped up in these Hero Sports rankings, let's remember that they are subjective and based primarily on the number of offers received by each recruit -- with special emphasis on offers from FBS schools and Power 5 schools. While there is logic to that criteria, it also has pitfalls. I think it is reasonable to consider that the longer a recruit is "available," the more offers he will receive. Consequently, a recruit who commits earlier in the process will shortcut the amount of time he is available, and probably will receive fewer offers than if he had prolonged his recruitment period.
Of the 6 Holy Cross recruits listed in the Hero Sports 300, 5 committed during the early signing period (Coulson being the lone recruit who signed in February). Kreimer, McMurtrie, Blessing, and Morris committed rather early; Kiessling was the only one of the early signers who committed fairly close to the December signing date. It's pure speculation, of course, but I think it is likely that if these recruits had not committed as early as they did, they would have received more offers (and hence would have been ranked higher).
Perhaps this is just a rationalization, and it is probably pointless because these are good players and I fully hope and expect that they (and several other members of this recruiting class who are not on this list) will make significant contributions to the success of Holy Cross football in the coming years. I just think that we should accept these Hero Sports rankings as just one point of view and not magnify their significance to an unrealistic degree.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 12, 2019 10:11:52 GMT -5
Breezy...Not exaggerate importance of a rating? Have you forgotten that this is Crossports and that exaggeration is a way of like...that may be only supported by some when the statement is negative?
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Post by dharry13 on Feb 12, 2019 10:13:48 GMT -5
Agree with Breezy. It's all on paper.
That said - using their rankings as purely a guide - the Patriot League, CAA and Ivy League were able to sign 98 of the Top 300 ranked kids (33%). The three conferences only make up 22% of the 122 FCS schools (27 of the 122). If that trend continues it should bode well for these conferences on a continual basis. It's only 1 year. The results on the field have to continue to get better in order to continue this type of recruiting trend IMO.
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 12, 2019 10:20:34 GMT -5
Harvard ranked #1, Yale #6, Princeton #7. Western Carolina #10, top recruit is Christian Harris. Penn #15, Dartmouth #19. In this ranking Penn & Dartmouth show 25 'recruited' players i.e. yielded?; HC 21; No 'recruited' numbers for Harvard, Yale or Princeton in this ranking.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 12, 2019 11:47:53 GMT -5
I took a look at top players from the prior year to see how many became "impact freshmen". I looked at Top 25 for offensive players for whom I might find statistics.
1- Brevin White- QB- Princeton: Played JV's 2- Devon Cooley-WR-Weber State: 33 receptions for 403 yards and 2 TD's 4-Trenton Charles-RB-Yale: 14 carries for 50 yards and 1 TD 6- Maurice Robinson-ATH-Grambling: moved to DB, no stats 13- Emeka Nwanze-RB Citadel: 9 carries for 22 yards 17- Israel Spivey-WR NC A&T: on roster, no stats 19-Kym Wimberley-WR-Harvard: returned 6 kicks for 116 yards 21- Trey Lance-QB- No Dak State: played 2 games 1-1 passing 24- Sherod White-RB Montana State: not on roster 25- Reggie Brown-RB Jas Madison: red shirted
So, even these heralded freshmen, excluding Cooley, had difficulty gaining playing time at FCS schools.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 12, 2019 13:57:22 GMT -5
I took a look at top players from the prior year to see how many became "impact freshmen". I looked at Top 25 for offensive players for whom I might find statistics. 1- Brevin White- QB- Princeton: Played JV's 2- Devon Cooley-WR-Weber State: 33 receptions for 403 yards and 2 TD's 4-Trenton Charles-RB-Yale: 14 carries for 50 yards and 1 TD 6- Maurice Robinson-ATH-Grambling: moved to DB, no stats 13- Emeka Nwanze-RB Citadel: 9 carries for 22 yards 17- Israel Spivey-WR NC A&T: on roster, no stats 19-Kym Wimberley-WR-Harvard: returned 6 kicks for 116 yards 21- Trey Lance-QB- No Dak State: played 2 games 1-1 passing 24- Sherod White-RB Montana State: not on roster 25- Reggie Brown-RB Jas Madison: red shirted So, even these heralded freshmen, excluding Cooley, had difficulty gaining playing time at FCS schools. The better programs tend to have the best recruiting seasons. Therefore, the top recruits are by definition going up against good, older, stronger, more experienced players. And if the kids HC brings in start playing right away it might be more a sign of weakness than strength.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 12, 2019 13:59:01 GMT -5
True...but less so with each recruiting class.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 16:15:57 GMT -5
I took a look at top players from the prior year to see how many became "impact freshmen". I looked at Top 25 for offensive players for whom I might find statistics. 1- Brevin White- QB- Princeton: Played JV's 2- Devon Cooley-WR-Weber State: 33 receptions for 403 yards and 2 TD's 4-Trenton Charles-RB-Yale: 14 carries for 50 yards and 1 TD 6- Maurice Robinson-ATH-Grambling: moved to DB, no stats 13- Emeka Nwanze-RB Citadel: 9 carries for 22 yards 17- Israel Spivey-WR NC A&T: on roster, no stats 19-Kym Wimberley-WR-Harvard: returned 6 kicks for 116 yards 21- Trey Lance-QB- No Dak State: played 2 games 1-1 passing 24- Sherod White-RB Montana State: not on roster 25- Reggie Brown-RB Jas Madison: red shirted So, even these heralded freshmen, excluding Cooley, had difficulty gaining playing time at FCS schools. Great research. High school rankings are often deeply flawed and it takes a skilled recruiter to be able to discern playmakers from hype. Look forward to seeing how things play out in 2019.
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Post by breezy on Feb 13, 2019 9:38:07 GMT -5
Hero Sports showing Holy Cross with the #20 FCS recruiting class and six recruits in the Top 300 FCS Recruits: 81. Kiessling (OH -- DL) 144. McMurtrie (NJ - OL) 149. Coulson (FL - WR) 168. Blessing (MD - OL) 188. Morris (NJ - TE) 207. Kreimer (OH - WR) I think it is realistic to expect that all six of these incoming freshmen have the potential to be significant contributors to Holy Cross football in the next few years. This is pure speculation on my part, but based on returning upperclassmen and without consideration of potential injuries, I anticipate that these is a good chance that one of these WRs (either Coulson or Kreimer) will be a starter very early in the 2019 season. Interestingly, three other freshmen who are not in the Top 300 list (QB Butash, LB Dobbs, and WR Asante) also have the potential to be a starter at some point in the 2019 season. Just reinforces the notion that this is a solid recruiting class.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 13, 2019 9:50:29 GMT -5
Very interesting Breezy, re: wide receivers. My projection was that Tenio Ayeni and Spencer Gilliam would be the likeliest starters, but if the incoming freshmen can push them we should be happy. Having seen the highlight reels I am very impressed with those incoming WR's.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 13, 2019 9:59:09 GMT -5
KY is probably right about the WR starters but I also expect we'll see the freshmen getting lots of time on the field sooner rather than later. Now, if we can just get the QB position settled. My expectation is Degenhardt starting out. As little experience as he has, it is more than anyone else.
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Post by breezy on Feb 13, 2019 10:13:37 GMT -5
Very interesting Breezy, re: wide receivers. My projection was that Tenio Ayeni and Spencer Gilliam would be the likeliest starters, but if the incoming freshmen can push them we should be happy. Having seen the highlight reels I am very impressed with those incoming WR's. Generally, the starting line-up on offense includes the QB, the RB, five OL's, a TE, and three WRs. Sometimes there is even no TE and 4 WRs. I agree that Ayeni and Gilliam are likely starters at WR. The third WR would be a toss-up between Roberts, Teeter, and one of the incoming frosh. If there are 4 WRs, there could even be two frosh WRs.
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Post by dharry13 on Feb 13, 2019 10:14:14 GMT -5
Which is why the WR coach position is a very big hire. 9 of the 11 kids to start 2019 will be either FR or SOPH. They need someone to guide them into a whole new level of football and prepare kids to contribute right away, because quite frankly - they won't have a choice. IMO a big position to fill because of the high level of inexperience at that one position.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 13, 2019 10:23:21 GMT -5
Very interesting Breezy, re: wide receivers. My projection was that Tenio Ayeni and Spencer Gilliam would be the likeliest starters, but if the incoming freshmen can push them we should be happy. Having seen the highlight reels I am very impressed with those incoming WR's. Generally, the starting line-up on offense includes the QB, the RB, five OL's, a TE, and three WRs. Sometimes there is even no TE and 4 WRs. I agree that Ayeni and Gilliam are likely starters at WR. The third WR would be a toss-up between Roberts, Teeter, and one of the incoming frosh. If there are 4 WRs, there could even be two frosh WRs. If frosh Morris is ready to contribute at TE, lining him up with Ayeni & Teeter at WR would present some huge targets for whoever the QB is.
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Post by breezy on Feb 13, 2019 10:33:09 GMT -5
I expect Morris to be a stud TE, but with Mountain returning as a 5th-year senior, Kuznetsov returning as the backup, and Pirwitz returning after his injury last year, I think (barring injuries) Morris is unlikely to start at the beginning of the season.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 13, 2019 11:20:04 GMT -5
Very interesting Breezy, re: wide receivers. My projection was that Tenio Ayeni and Spencer Gilliam would be the likeliest starters, but if the incoming freshmen can push them we should be happy. Having seen the highlight reels I am very impressed with those incoming WR's. Generally, the starting line-up on offense includes the QB, the RB, five OL's, a TE, and three WRs. Sometimes there is even no TE and 4 WRs. I agree that Ayeni and Gilliam are likely starters at WR. The third WR would be a toss-up between Roberts, Teeter, and one of the incoming frosh. If there are 4 WRs, there could even be two frosh WRs. Right you are, of course, and I should have recalled that since I always check the two-deep before a game. I guess I was thinking back 50 NFL years to the days of 1 split end and 1 flanker.
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Post by breezy on Feb 13, 2019 12:24:59 GMT -5
Generally, the starting line-up on offense includes the QB, the RB, five OL's, a TE, and three WRs. Sometimes there is even no TE and 4 WRs. I agree that Ayeni and Gilliam are likely starters at WR. The third WR would be a toss-up between Roberts, Teeter, and one of the incoming frosh. If there are 4 WRs, there could even be two frosh WRs. Right you are, of course, and I should have recalled that since I always check the two-deep before a game. I guess I was thinking back 50 NFL years to the days of 1 split end and 1 flanker.And a halfback and a fullback -- those were the days!
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Post by hchoops on Feb 13, 2019 12:51:38 GMT -5
How about 2 halfbacks and a fullback ! With the QB, a real full house backfield
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Post by hcgrad94 on Feb 13, 2019 14:32:23 GMT -5
Generally, the starting line-up on offense includes the QB, the RB, five OL's, a TE, and three WRs. Sometimes there is even no TE and 4 WRs. I agree that Ayeni and Gilliam are likely starters at WR. The third WR would be a toss-up between Roberts, Teeter, and one of the incoming frosh. If there are 4 WRs, there could even be two frosh WRs. If frosh Morris is ready to contribute at TE, lining him up with Ayeni & Teeter at WR would present some huge targets for whoever the QB is. Extremely rare for freshmen to be ready right away except for in time of significant need on the depth chart. People have no concept what a physical and mental Step Up Vision one football is from virtually every High School level.
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Post by dharry13 on Feb 13, 2019 14:47:48 GMT -5
No doubt about it you are right. I would argue WR is a position that is of significant need on depth chart.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 13, 2019 14:53:13 GMT -5
While a big (enormous?) jump from high schooler to D-I college player, it can be done and sometimes with stunning results. I suspect that most would agree that a QB transition from H.S. to college is even greater than for a WR. And PL is not as big a transition as the power conferences. So, I offer you this as a counterpoint: www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-top-graded-true-freshman-quarterbacks
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Post by breezy on Feb 13, 2019 14:53:37 GMT -5
I've always taken it as a truism that "skill position" players -- RBs and WRs on offense, and even to some degree, DBs on defense -- are more likely to be able to play early, as opposed to OL and DL where time is needed to physically mature and gain strength. That has not always been the case at Holy Cross in recent years, as several OLs and at least one DL have gotten substantial early playing time.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 13, 2019 15:09:45 GMT -5
If frosh Morris is ready to contribute at TE, lining him up with Ayeni & Teeter at WR would present some huge targets for whoever the QB is. Extremely rare for freshmen to be ready right away except for in time of significant need on the depth chart. People have no concept what a physical and mental Step Up Vision one football is from virtually every High School level. We might have no choice but to start a true freshman against Navy, Syracuse, UNH, and Yale. Gulp.
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