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Post by sarasota on Jun 6, 2016 14:49:37 GMT -5
I have sent the following message to Nate Pine:
"Fitton Football Stadium is the most under appreciated, under utilized athletic facility on campus. It is the only athletic facility HC has that is potentially head and shoulders above our competitors. Yet, the locker rooms, rest rooms, press boxes and concession venus are disgraceful and embarrassing. Also, natural sod needs to be replaced by artificial surface because it is less costly to maintain and shows up much better on television. If our football coach disagrees, he should be overridden. Lastly, the lack of permanent lighting is inexcusable. There are multiple lighted fields on campus. But for some reason, Fitton is not good enough. The few night football games games in recent seasons using rented lights were highly successful. Permanent lighting would open up additional possibilities for non-football events. Also, it would make possible later start times on Saturday, which is more family-friendly. In the big picture, the cost is peanuts. Morgan State, UNH, Albany and many other schools have lights. There has been lots of speculation as to why there are no lights at Fitton, but I don't believe we have ever been given a definitive explanation from a person in authority. Do we have to wait for somebody to sell his wine collection before we can do it?"
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 6, 2016 14:54:32 GMT -5
Gee, I wonder if Nate Pine has looked at this matter before .........
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Post by sarasota on Jun 6, 2016 15:10:01 GMT -5
Why don't you just say what's on your mind without resorting to cheap easy sarcasm?
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Post by JRGNYR on Jun 7, 2016 8:12:32 GMT -5
'Sota, you raise good points but I think the tenor of the note could've been scaled back a bit. It's not like ADNP isn't already busy with other athletics facilities improvements.
"In the big picture, the cost is peanuts."
You've laid out several improvements that you'd like to see made. While I don't remember the specifics, I seem to recall someone (probably phreek) mentioning that renovation would require ADA compliance, which would be necessary and expensive. I think the cost here is a bit higher than the peanuts you describe.
One renovation at a time. It all can't happen overnight.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 7, 2016 9:04:59 GMT -5
Renovating Fitton is in the HC master plan.
The cost is north of $25 million, at a recent estimate.
Next on the HC priority list will be the Performance Arts Center.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 7, 2016 9:14:03 GMT -5
Assuming you sent that using your real name, someone in the AD will look up the ledger for contributions to HC, and particularly the Athletic Fund, from said individual, or see whether said individual buys season tickets for football, etc.
Not that the above should particularly matter, but your communication is laced with snide phrasing, and condescending, know-it-all argumentation....
So I don't know what kind of a reply you will get.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 7, 2016 9:34:47 GMT -5
Renovating Fitton is in the HC master plan. The cost is north of $25 million, at a recent estimate. Next on the HC priority list will be the Performance Arts Center. Crucis. is the master plan the long-term strategic plan that HC places on the index librorum prohibitorum, and never to be read other than when behind locked doors at Fenwick? The capital campaign has three construction projects: Luth (and Hart), the Joyce Contemplative Center, and Prior Performing Arts Center. All three are funded, wholly or in part. The renovations to the existing field house are also funded, wholly or in part. Which leaves projects outside the current capital campaign: * HC said in its re-accreditation reply, that it would build one (Figge), and possibly two new residence halls. * ADNP told alum, IIRC, that HC had to have a facility for indoor track, perhaps built/shared with other institutions. * A certain poster here will be in the depths of despair if the rink is not expanded. * There have been rumors of renovations of the Easy St dorms, which are approaching 70 years or more in age. Aside from major renovations to Fitton, do you know if the master plan has any of the bulleted projects above?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 7, 2016 11:06:09 GMT -5
'sota - why don't you buy the vino collection to pay for the lights...
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 7, 2016 12:20:03 GMT -5
I have not seen the plan recently.
Several years ago I was at a presentation in Hogan, regarding a long term plan that I am sure has been revised substantially.
I would agree with PP that the priorities listed in the above post are ahead of a major overhaul to Fitton.
One of the renderings that PP has provided shows Fitton with changes to the footprint in the end facing McKeon road.
The rendering was posted under the Luth Athletic Complex on April 27, 2016 at 2:40 PM. It stated a NFH by Fitton. Obviously now out of date and not in the current plan with the construction underway for a 100 yard practice facility at the top of the hill.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 7, 2016 13:27:53 GMT -5
georgetownvoice.com/2016/03/05/life-after-kehoe-club-sports-struggle-to-find-field-space/^^^^ This link is to an article in a Georgetown student newspaper about the rather abrupt closure of Kehoe Field, one of three playing fields on campus. (In the early days of PL football, Kehoe was the home field of the Hoyas.) Two fields remain: a soccer field, and the multi-sport field for M/W lacrosse and football. Baseball, softball, tennis, field hockey are now competed elsewhere, often at some distance Kehoe sits atop the Yates Field House, the student recreation center. Georgetown has apparently now concluded that Yates itself cannot be renovated, and a new student recreation center must be built. Of course, there is no space available. Perhaps Georgetown will use the soccer field for the new recreation center, demolish Yates (with Kehoe) and put a new soccer field and new student recreation field on the Yates site. And in retrospect, Georgetown would probably be better off today if it's first priority hadn't been to spend $62 million for two hoops practice courts. Compare GU to Holy Cross with -- on campus -- two soccer fields, two football fields (not counting Fr. K field), a lacrosse field, a baseball field, a softball field a field hockey field, and a soon-to-be indoor football/lacrosse field. And tennis courts. And Freshman Field. I am citing Georgetown only to disabuse those who believe athletic facility decisions are a 'snap my fingers, do it yesterday, money is no object' sort of thing.
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Post by sarasota on Jun 7, 2016 16:29:29 GMT -5
PP- Thanks for your critique of my writing style. Mine is assertive and colorful. Yours isn't. Yours reflects the years you spent in Washington trying to impress bureaucrats. You keep your style and I'll keep mine.
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Post by sarasota on Jun 7, 2016 23:40:11 GMT -5
Here is Nate Pine's reply to my message above: Hello Mike, I will take your suggestions into consideration. You do make some valid points. Rest assured, I will continue to upgrade and improve all of our athletics facilities as resources allow. To that end, if you would like to make a gift to the Crusader Athletic Fund to support our efforts I would welcome you to do so online through our website www.goholycross.com. The cost of the lights or the Fieldturf is not what is holding us back (though Fieldturf does present some significant problems with the water table and drainage at that location). Those investments would however trigger significant other costs required to bring the entire stadium up to current ADA standards. Improvements of the nature you reference to Fitton Field would also require an additional tens-of-millions of dollars in ADA upgrades and will have to be part of a campus master plan. As you are undoubtedly aware, we are currently underway with a $95M athletic facility improvement project at the Hart Center. Completion on that project is expected to be in the spring of 2018. In the meantime, we will have to continue to do smaller projects to make Fitton Field and our other athletics facilities the best environments for our student-athletes and fans that we can. Go 'Saders! Nathan Pine Director of Athletics College of the Holy Cross Nate Pine has shown in many ways that he is a class guy. He is at the PL AD's Conference this week. For him to take the time to reply to a wiseguy alum shows him again to be a class guy.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 8, 2016 5:41:53 GMT -5
'Sota, you got a better answer than I expected, and an answer that only underscores that ADNP will be moving on to bigger jobs at bigger schools.
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Post by joe on Jun 8, 2016 5:56:06 GMT -5
Thoughtful reply. We can still put in lights and a Jumbotron now. In terms of bang for the buck these are the two most important things. IF no lights then simply rent them for a few more years but night games need to happen again as they were a major success. Jumbotron is required now. It would make all the difference in the world.
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Post by JRGNYR on Jun 8, 2016 7:34:08 GMT -5
Surprised you received a response based on the original tenor of the note. Nicely done by ADNP.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 8, 2016 8:31:05 GMT -5
Let's see: $20,000,000 in improvements versus, say, an increase to 75,000 fans per year. Over a period of 20 years the improvements would "cost" $13 for every fan. So it's pretty easy to see that this cannot be viewed as a business proposition.
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Post by JRGNYR on Jun 8, 2016 8:34:22 GMT -5
And some of the most important improvements Fitton needs are ones the fans won't see on a regular basis, i.e. upgraded locker room facilities. And those are going to be supremely important to prospective student-athletes.
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Post by crusader12 on Jun 8, 2016 11:53:06 GMT -5
Sota: +1 for the email and great job! As I have have stated numerous times it's the ADA that is the official reason why we cant put money into fitton.
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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 8, 2016 15:36:33 GMT -5
AD Nate Pine is a jewel. Sarasota, I hope you and all of our posters make a timely contribution to the Crusader Athletics Fund.
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Post by ts1970 on Jun 8, 2016 16:02:22 GMT -5
Mailed mine in today.
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Post by sarasota on Jun 8, 2016 16:53:34 GMT -5
ADA: Aside from its beneficial effects for disabled persons, it is a perfect example of how government regulations KILL JOBS. Multiply ADA by millions of govt regulations and you can see why our Economy is in the Doldrums--despite what the Dem spinmeisters would have us believe.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2016 6:53:04 GMT -5
ADA: Aside from its beneficial effects for disabled persons, it is a perfect example of how government regulations KILL JOBS. Multiply ADA by millions of govt regulations and you can see why our Economy is in the Doldrums--despite what the Dem spinmeisters would have us believe. So quick with the reflexive judgment. As it was, the effort to pass the ADA began under Reagan, and the ADA became law under George H. W. Bush. www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=18712
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Post by matunuck on Jun 9, 2016 8:42:43 GMT -5
As with many things -- raising the minimum wage higher and higher, Obamacare, the ADA -- there are trade offs with some losers and winners and to believe otherwise is delusional. At times, the benefits may far exceed the cost but now always. A stroke of a pen can't eliminate all the laws of economics. Absent healthy economic growth, rising labor costs have take a toll on the job prospects of those looking for a paycheck.
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Post by sarasota on Jun 9, 2016 9:18:40 GMT -5
ADA illustrates the Law of Unintended Consequences. We see that over and over from govt laws/regulations. Sometimes they are colossal blunders.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2016 10:04:07 GMT -5
ADA illustrates the Law of Unintended Consequences. We see that over and over from govt laws/regulations. Sometimes they are colossal blunders. Before this thread gets too far on a tangent, the ADA was not constructed as a zero sum game. Much of life is not a zero sum game. To bring this back to sports, the primary beneficiaries of HC's subsidy of M/W basketball are the 25 or so scollie recipients and the coaches. The other 2850 students gain very little, relative to the sums being spent. It would be different if the subsidy cost was not so high.
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