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Post by nhteamer on Mar 28, 2018 8:16:53 GMT -5
Goodness Alum, widen your "circle." Classic; can't refute the facts? Attack Brietbart......love it.
How would your circle of chardonnay sipping geniuses (ooooohhh.......did I call you a name?) feel if a professor at Holy Cross with an endowed chair opined that, not a spark in mud or a big bang, but actually God created the world.
And you read about it in the HuffPo..........so it's clearly true!
Your heads would explode.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 28, 2018 8:20:57 GMT -5
Prof L would be perfect at Pakachoag Hill College, not Holy Cross.
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Post by alum on Mar 28, 2018 8:33:55 GMT -5
Goodness Alum, widen your "circle." Classic; can't refute the facts? Attack Brietbart......love it. How would your circle of chardonnay sipping geniuses (ooooohhh.......did I call you a name?) feel if a professor at Holy Cross with an endowed chair opined that, not a spark in mud or a big bang, but actually God created the world. And you read about it in the HuffPo..........so it's clearly true! Your heads would explode. What the hell are you talking about? I don't have any reason to think that the Fenwick Review article was incorrect or that the Breitbart summary of it was wrong. That's not the point. The point is that he can't be fired, that the College is not a Catholic seminary from the 1950's, and that there were non mainstream religious studies professors when we were students, too. The reference to Breitbart was to say that I did not care what Breitbart commenters had to say. It's a college religious studies department and has been since before you were a student. I might be annoyed that HC hired a professor who believed in Biblical creationism, but I would understand that he or she could not be fired. Don't read HuffPo, sorry.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 28, 2018 8:34:43 GMT -5
Definitely should and need to read the article by current senior Elinor Reilly in the Fenwick Review. I also encourage people to read the comments at Breitbart as those are an indication of the damage the college faces from a PR standpoint. The Breitbart article has gone absolutely viral. I do wonder whether Professor Liew weighed in on the debate regarding the Crusader and made any public comments on that topic. Nobody who travels in the circles I travel reads Breitbart, or if they do, they certainly don't brag about it. That reminds me of a comment long ago when a TV anchor reacted in astonishment to Reagan's first presidential victory since nobody she knew even considered voting for him. (He won 44 states in a landslide). Some suggested she widen her circle.
Since I support diversity of opinion I occasionally read Breitbart - I did notice they predicted Trump would win the election. It is also true they tweak the establishment and the prevailing liberal orthodoxy on campus, which doubtlessly turns off or triggers certain folks.
This story is so wacky and makes HC look so foolish that I am thinking this is an early April fools joke. Couldn't have been easy to conjure something to top the self-inflicted crusader debacle.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 28, 2018 8:35:45 GMT -5
Students should shun this professor. Let him hold class with zero students. He will get the message.
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Post by alum on Mar 28, 2018 8:37:55 GMT -5
Nobody who travels in the circles I travel reads Breitbart, or if they do, they certainly don't brag about it. That reminds me of a comment long ago when a TV anchor reacted in astonishment to Reagan's first presidential victory since nobody she knew even considered voting for him. (He won 44 states in a landslide). Some suggested she widen her circle.
Since I support diversity of opinion I occasionally read Breitbart - I did notice they predicted Trump would win the election. It is also true they tweak the establishment and the prevailing liberal orthodoxy on campus, which doubtlessly turns off or triggers certain folks.
Quite frankly, that was the basis for my wise guy comment. I suppose I should have used some sort of emoji.
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Post by alum on Mar 28, 2018 8:39:09 GMT -5
Students should shun this professor. Let him hold class with zero students. He will get the message. That's how it is supposed to work. I would also remind everyone that just because this professor's scholarship covers these topics does not mean that they are central to an Intro to the New Testament course.
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Post by lou on Mar 28, 2018 8:42:53 GMT -5
Nobody who travels in the circles I travel reads Breitbart, or if they do, they certainly don't brag about it. That reminds me of a comment long ago when a TV anchor reacted in astonishment to Reagan's first presidential victory since nobody she knew even considered voting for him. (He won 44 states in a landslide). Some suggested she widen her circle.
Since I support diversity of opinion I occasionally read Breitbart - I did notice they predicted Trump would win the election.
Best line yet! I wonder how Breitbart knew?
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Post by alum on Mar 28, 2018 8:48:06 GMT -5
Oh, by the way, and I really have to do some real work, what I see here in this discussion is a bunch of people who don't like to be told things with which they don't agree. Some want the professor who says these things to be fired.
Hmmm.... What term could we use to describe people like that. I bet a weather related one would work.....Rain drop? A gust of wind? Cloudy sky?
It'll come to me.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 28, 2018 8:51:47 GMT -5
That reminds me of a comment long ago when a TV anchor reacted in astonishment to Reagan's first presidential victory since nobody she knew even considered voting for him. (He won 44 states in a landslide). Some suggested she widen her circle.
Since I support diversity of opinion I occasionally read Breitbart - I did notice they predicted Trump would win the election.It is also true they tweak the establishment and the prevailing liberal orthodoxy on campus, which doubtlessly turns off or triggers certain folks.
This story is so wacky and makes HC look so foolish that I am thinking this is an early April fools joke. Couldn't have been easy to conjure something to top the self-inflicted crusader debacle.
Best line yet! I wonder how Breitbart knew? "Best"? Apparently they didn't buy the prevailing media narrative, remembered Clinton's previous and disastrous presidential run, saw the consecutive string of Trump victories over legitimate primary opponents, had no pro-liberal filter, conducted reliable polls, and realized 2 + 2 =4. Or at least that is what their editors explained to the bewildered, shell-shocked, and heartbroken main stream media the following day.
And they probably knew a few people who would be voting for Trump.
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Post by td128 on Mar 28, 2018 8:52:09 GMT -5
Diversity of informed, intelligent, and educated opinion? All for it.
Verbal diarrhea that many would define justifiably as heretical blasphemy for 67k? I welcome properly calling TPTB out on it and plan on doing just that.
Last time we ventured down a path such as this, Gerry Reedy was on the next bus out of town.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 28, 2018 8:56:39 GMT -5
(Trigger alert, trigger alert. Go your safe spaces.) The funniest line thus far from the Britbart comments page: "They should get honest and rename the place College of the Holy Crossdresser."
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 28, 2018 9:19:16 GMT -5
A Georgetown University tenured professor made very controversial comments last year that were criticized by both the right, and the left. This is what the university said in response. In any event, Catholic doctrine holds that God has no gender.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 28, 2018 9:25:02 GMT -5
(Trigger alert, trigger alert. Go your safe spaces.) The funniest line thus far from the Britbart comments page: "They should get honest and rename the place College of the Holy Crossdresser." very clever-very funny-very sad. We have brought this on ourselves
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 28, 2018 9:29:56 GMT -5
Definitely should and need to read the article by current senior Elinor Reilly in the Fenwick Review. I also encourage people to read the comments at Breitbart as those are an indication of the damage the college faces from a PR standpoint. The Breitbart article has gone absolutely viral. I do wonder whether Professor Liew weighed in on the debate regarding the Crusader and made any public comments on that topic. Nobody who travels in the circles I travel reads Breitbart, or if they do, they certainly don't brag about it. Do they brag about what they do not read..and their ignorance as a result?
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 28, 2018 9:32:37 GMT -5
I find that some have the same view of "freedom of speech" that existed in the old Soviet Union. It was said that, in the USSR, you were free to say anything you wanted...once.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 28, 2018 9:41:22 GMT -5
Would it be acceptable for a sociology professor to teach on his belief in eugenics?
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 28, 2018 9:46:14 GMT -5
How that was taught would be the key. If when it was taught the professor's personal belief was identified as such, and the "other side" were also provided to offer a balanced view of this topic, it could be
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 28, 2018 10:57:41 GMT -5
I remember reading The Last Temptation of Christ as part of class at HC in the early 80s.
Many may recall the primary controversy of the film (which I did not see), but it's in the book too, which suggests that Jesus had a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene. The book also suggests that Jesus was subject to every other human emotion - love, joy, gratitude, hope, anger, hate, fear, envy, lust ...
The learning from the book that we have trouble grasping and understanding - and is actually quite Catholic - is that Jesus is fully God AND fully human.
So, if Jesus is fully human, He had to experience the full range of human emotions, not just the ones we consider good/positive. If it is a human emotion, it is fair to believe that Jesus experienced it.
We spend a lot of time on the divine portion of Jesus' nature and not nearly enough on the human side. We don't like to think of our perfect God experiencing hate, lust, or envy. Yet we know he experienced anger with the money changers in the temple and fear on the Mount of Olives. Why is it so hard to think he experienced the other "bad" feelings & emotions?
And of course our feelings and emotions themselves are not bad - our actions in response to them are what matter - and that is where Jesus' divine nature comes in – his response. to his feelings & emotions.
I read both the Breitbart piece and the Fenwick Review article. Near as I can tell, The Fenwick review article simply points out a selected portion of what professor Liew has written - and in my view it is out there, WAY beyond anything I would read into the Gospel text. But I don't know how I'd read it if I were gay or transgendered or anything else that I am not.
We all translate our own experiences into everything we read, including the Gospel. To illustrate, I'm pretty sure in 1830 Georgia a slave heard the Gospel quite differently than that slave's owner.
If we believe that Jesus came to save all (the good & the bad) and we accept and believe in Jesus' fully human nature, and professor Liew's interpretation (of which we only have an excerpt) speaks to someone on the margin - which is where Jesus spent much of his ministry - is it that big a stretch to think that such an interpretation could bring someone on the margin into a closer relationship with God? And is that not the purpose of the Gospel and the Church?
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 28, 2018 11:25:36 GMT -5
the slippery slope of 'academic freedom' - sorry, I'm getting off that train. Why doesn't the school feature Liew in their next issue of the Holy Cross magazine in an article of the evolution of our Religious Studies dept. ? This guy is simply an embarrassment to the school and I hope TPTB will hear from all corners.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 28, 2018 11:35:01 GMT -5
Methinks Liew is down the list a-ways of problems that Fr B has at the moment.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Mar 28, 2018 11:50:45 GMT -5
Methinks Liew is down the list a-ways of problems that Fr B has at the moment. Big time problems that are metastasizing.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 28, 2018 12:20:06 GMT -5
If Liew is indeed tenured, how long has he been at HC ? What school did he come from ? Has the school been hiding his ideology from the public (and HC family) view, until breitbart just exposed it ?
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Mar 28, 2018 12:28:54 GMT -5
If Liew is indeed tenured, how long has he been at HC ? What school did he come from ? Has the school been hiding his ideology from the public (and HC family) view, until breitbart just exposed it ? Personally disgusted but not surprised. The Burroughs administration is achieving the previously unthinkable: eclipsing the embarrassment to Alma Mater that Father Reedy and his “personal issues” posed to the reputation of The College
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Post by rickii on Mar 28, 2018 12:57:42 GMT -5
I'm just wondering if an individual like this would be found at Boston College, Gonzaga, Notre Dame, Villanova, Providence, Fordham or Xavier. And as to Georgetown, I'd guess yes.
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