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Post by joutsHC77 on Mar 29, 2018 9:33:56 GMT -5
The question before the court here ultimately is whether Holy Cross is a Catholic college in name, principle, and practice or not? Bingo.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 29, 2018 9:59:43 GMT -5
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 29, 2018 10:12:58 GMT -5
agree with td128
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Post by breezy on Mar 29, 2018 10:22:09 GMT -5
Has anyone on this board actually read anything that Professor Liew has written or heard him say the things that are quoted in the article so that the context is known? Here is a link to the course offerings of the Religious Studies Department at Holy Cross. It is much more extensive that I had imagined. catalog.holycross.edu/academics/relsHere is the course description of the Introductory course on the New Testament: Religious Studies 118 -- New Testament (Fall, spring) "Introduction to early Christian literature and thought in light of the historical, literary, and religious milieu of the Greco-Roman world, including Judaism. Topics discussed include the diverse of representations of Jesus, the emergence of the category “Christian,” and the genres of New Testament and other early Christian books. Contemporary approaches are addressed, but the primary focus is the ancient texts themselves. One unit." There appears to be a typo where it states "the diverse of representations of Jesus" -- the word "of" is extraneous and probably should not be there. Is it possible that a professor (and I do not know if Professor Liew teaches this course) might postulate some descriptions of Jesus that are unconventional or perhaps skewed to the professor's own predelictions? *** Having said this, I am very concerned about the negative picture of Holy Cross that has been presented in social media over the past few days because of the publicity surrounding Professor Liew's supposed beliefs. And, quite frankly, if the reports do correctly describe his thinking, I believe it is just silly to try to speculate on what Jesus thought or did as a human person in terms of sexuality, and I certainly do not agree with the quoted comments. But I do think that it is premature to make a rush to judgment.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 29, 2018 10:33:38 GMT -5
HC is going to need to put forth some sort of response quickly as this is gaining a lot of steam. Will be interesting to see what that is.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 29, 2018 10:44:57 GMT -5
I'm a bit concerned with the kid right now balancing his acceptances at HC, Fordham and Providence College . Complex theological discussions and academic inquiry defenses aside, this makes HC look silly to parents and kids. Yes, the crusader debacle can be written off as typical (albeit self-inflicted) campus PC but this latest episode smacks of some sort of ding-dong and second-rate exercise in peculiar self-loathing (coming as it does from an overtly Catholic school named Holy Cross). Won't help our reputation - and why should it?
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Post by td128 on Mar 29, 2018 10:50:46 GMT -5
I'm a bit concerned with the kid right now balancing his acceptances at HC, Fordham and Providence College . Complex theological discussions and academic inquiry defenses aside, this makes HC look silly to parents and kids. Yes, the crusader debacle can be written off as typical (albeit self-inflicted) campus PC but this latest episode smacks of some sort of ding-dong and second-rate exercise in peculiar self-loathing (coming as it does from an overtly Catholic school named Holy Cross). Won't help our reputation - and why should it? Nails it. First Rule of Management: ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS protect the name so as to promote the brand. This situation is currently a colossal failure on that front. Another example that "when you sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas."
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Post by joutsHC77 on Mar 29, 2018 10:55:57 GMT -5
But I do think that it is premature to make a rush to judgment. Breezy, damage is being heaped upon damage. Awful.
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 29, 2018 11:00:58 GMT -5
Development dept must be panicked
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 29, 2018 11:08:06 GMT -5
Development dept must be panicked Between this and the Crusader, it's going to be very interesting what the numbers look like this year.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 29, 2018 11:09:23 GMT -5
What is Benny’s religious preference?
I especially agree with the posters who say the people who hired this professor should be called on the carpet?
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Post by ncaam on Mar 29, 2018 11:11:09 GMT -5
What is Benny’s religious preference?
I especially agree with the posters who say the people who hired this professor should be called on the carpet.
Bad news travels in threes; Crusader, Professor, what next? 😮
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Post by bikeman on Mar 29, 2018 11:52:10 GMT -5
Why anyone other than blind alumni would support this "school" or it's athletic programs at this time is beyond me. Oh that's right, no one does.
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Post by hc89 on Mar 29, 2018 12:00:31 GMT -5
Fox News and Breitbart News should be absolutely ashamed for running this story about something that was written in 2004 during Holy Week.
I find it disgusting and disgraceful that they chose to do so.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 29, 2018 12:02:52 GMT -5
It is a bit like making a stink about the Crusades...centuries later and after wrongs were admitted and deserved apologies issued.
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Post by beaven302 on Mar 29, 2018 12:03:18 GMT -5
How many read the article in the Fenwick Review, rather than rely on Breitbart? I did. I've just read the article in the Fenwick Review and it strikes me that the professor's comments are another example of the trendy practice of finding LBGTQ elements where almost certainly none were intended by the original author. It brought to mind the critic whose analysis of the Great Gatsby included the claim that Gatsby's pal, Nick Carroway, was gay and Daisy Buchanan's friend, Jordan Baker, was a lesbian. In terms of offensiveness, it was reminiscent of the remark of one-time University of Colorado professor Ward Churchill that 9/11 victims were "Little Eichmann's." Like other posters, I find Liew's comments to be offensive and absurd, but getting rid of him would be more trouble than it's worth, and would provide him with far more publicity than an obscure religious studies professor deserves.
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Post by beaven302 on Mar 29, 2018 12:12:52 GMT -5
To put Liew's remarks in context, here's the Amazon blurb for his book, Politics of Parousia: Reading Mark Inter(Con)Textually:
"This volume moves literary criticism of the Gospels further into the socio-political struggle for liberation - particularly, into the realm of colonial/postcolonial discourse. Taking seriously the thought that Mark's Gospel was written under Roman colonization, and using "inter(con)textuality" as an underlying theory, it examines the relation between Mark's story of Jesus and colonial politics, especially Mark's emphasis on the parousia and his constructions of colonial subjects. It argues that Mark's apocalyptic simultaneously resists and reinscribes colonial ideology in terms of three subject-positions and subject-matters: authority, agency, and gender. Juxtaposing apocalyptic and politics, dissidence and duplication as well as Chinese American narratives and the Markan text, this volume seeks to rethink our struggle for social change and the relationship between cultural politics and Gospel studies."
To give themselves something to write about, professors like Liew come up with new takes on historical texts that involve current issues, which are popular among academics like themselves, and provide novel,unorthodox interpretations that will find favor with their peers..
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Post by rickii on Mar 29, 2018 12:21:57 GMT -5
Wait....where did this photo come from versus the mug on page 1 ? Which is current ?
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Post by hc89 on Mar 29, 2018 12:46:51 GMT -5
Wait....where did this photo come from versus the mug on page 1 ? Which is current ?
And herein lies the issue with Breitbart News, etc. Some (most?) readers who look at this story are led to believe the stock photo used for its story is actually a photograph of the Holy Cross professor featured in the story. It's not him at all. It is a photo of Conchita Wurst- a drag queen from Austria. Incredibly misleading. Nowhere is it stated that the person in the photo is not anybody related to the story.
Either way, I assume it is supposed to depict "Jesus in Drag" as that is what the story is about.
The author of the article is a former priest with an interesting past: www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/us/popular-priest-fathered-child-and-says-hell-step-aside.html
www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/another-legionary-priest-caught-scandal
Disgraceful, clickbait.
During Holy Week, no less.
Why no outrage about that?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 29, 2018 13:15:42 GMT -5
Wait....where did this photo come from versus the mug on page 1 ? Which is current ?
And herein lies the issue with Breitbart News, etc. Some (most?) readers who look at this story are led to believe the stock photo used for its story is actually a photograph of the Holy Cross professor featured in the story. It's not him at all. It is a photo of Conchita Wurst- a drag queen from Austria. Incredibly misleading. Nowhere is it stated that the person in the photo is not anybody related to the story.
Either way, I assume it is supposed to depict "Jesus in Drag" as that is what the story is about.
The author of the article is a former priest with an interesting past: www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/us/popular-priest-fathered-child-and-says-hell-step-aside.html
Disgraceful, clickbait.
During Holy Week, no less.
Why no outrage about that?
So you're blaming Fox News and Breitbart for reporting a story instead of the professor who actually wrote the words and the College who employed (and gave tenure to) said professor? That's silly. And the fact that it's Holy Week is totally irrelevant. The Fenwick Review article was just published on March 25th, so were these media outlets supposed to just sit on their hands until after Easter before they would be allowed to publish anything?
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Mar 29, 2018 13:19:02 GMT -5
Wait....where did this photo come from versus the mug on page 1 ? Which is current ?
And herein lies the issue with Breitbart News, etc. Some (most?) readers who look at this story are led to believe the stock photo used for its story is actually a photograph of the Holy Cross professor featured in the story. It's not him at all. It is a photo of Conchita Wurst- a drag queen from Austria. Incredibly misleading. Nowhere is it stated that the person in the photo is not anybody related to the story.
Either way, I assume it is supposed to depict "Jesus in Drag" as that is what the story is about.
The author of the article is a former priest with an interesting past: www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/us/popular-priest-fathered-child-and-says-hell-step-aside.html
Disgraceful, clickbait.
During Holy Week, no less.
Why no outrage about that?
Agreed 89......Breitbart is definitely at fault for pointing out that a tenured Religious Studies Professor at The College of the Holy Cross defines Jesus Christ in terms of a DRAG KING with QUEER DESIRES. Breitbart, Drudge and Fox News should be widely scorned for this.
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Post by cmo on Mar 29, 2018 13:27:41 GMT -5
Iggy is banned. Liew is tenured. Starting to wonder about the future of my relationship with alma mater. too bad Iggy didn't have tenure
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Post by hc89 on Mar 29, 2018 13:30:37 GMT -5
So you're blaming Fox News and Breitbart for reporting a story instead of the professor who actually wrote the words and the College who employed (and gave tenure to) said professor? That's silly. And the fact that it's Holy Week is totally irrelevant. The Fenwick Review article was just published on March 25th, so were these media outlets supposed to just sit on their hands until after Easter before they would be allowed to publish anything? It might not be relevant to you, but it is to me. Perhaps I am more "conservative" about these things than you are, but the fact that Breitbart News used a stock photo of a drag queen as a representative of Jesus Christ, is disgraceful in my mind. The fact that they chose to do it during Holy Week makes it worse (again, maybe not to you, but it is to me).
Somebody who works at the Center for Ethics and Culture at Notre Dame should know better.
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Post by hc89 on Mar 29, 2018 13:33:36 GMT -5
Agreed 89......Breitbart is definitely at fault for pointing out that a tenured Religious Studies Professor at The College of the Holy Cross defines Jesus Christ in terms of a DRAG KING with QUEER DESIRES. Breitbart, Drudge and Fox News should be widely scorned for this. I don't find fault with "reporting" stories. If they feel that pointing out what he wrote in 2004 is newsworthy, so be it.
What I find disgraceful is the use of stock photo of a drag queen from Austria to depict Jesus Christ.
Do you find that acceptable?
I don't support the idiotic drivel from Professor L at all.
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Post by nhteamer on Mar 29, 2018 13:38:11 GMT -5
It's leftist reflexology. Facts be damned. Even if it's true if it was on Fox News and Breitbart it's not worthy of discussion
Again, please; attach these words (" DRAG KING with QUEER DESIRES" among others) to Mohammed and what would happen? There would be an absolute firestorm.
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