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Post by Tom on May 15, 2020 8:32:24 GMT -5
down the tangent, but I got an unsolicited rebate on my auto insurance
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Post by rgs318 on May 15, 2020 8:35:08 GMT -5
Tom, you have a strange sense of humor. However, autobody shops need love too And my wife and I also got an auto insurance rebate.
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Post by lou on May 15, 2020 8:51:49 GMT -5
down the tangent, but I got an unsolicited rebate on my auto insurance Hanover?
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 15, 2020 9:38:40 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on May 15, 2020 9:44:35 GMT -5
Tom, you have a strange sense of humor. However, autobody shops need love too And my wife and I also got an auto insurance rebate. Strange is one of the kinder words used to describe me. I have Liberty Mutual - and for the record, I've had them long before the stupid ads with the Emu
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Post by breezy on May 15, 2020 9:52:19 GMT -5
Only pay for what you need ... and a gazillion commercials.
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Post by longsuffering on May 15, 2020 9:59:21 GMT -5
"Liberty Dibity" "Cut! We'll dub the lines."
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Post by rgs318 on May 15, 2020 11:27:10 GMT -5
I am also with Liberty and, even though long retired, still get a "teacher" discount.
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Post by timholycross on May 15, 2020 18:48:21 GMT -5
Arbella seems to be doing the same thing.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 30, 2020 18:04:22 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on May 30, 2020 18:53:05 GMT -5
Andrew Zimbalist panned every publicly financed stadium I can remember him weighing in on. Then the city hires him as a consultant and he praises Worcester's $100 million dollar Albatross.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 30, 2020 18:59:50 GMT -5
Worc taxpayers: get ready to grab your ankles.
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Post by timholycross on May 31, 2020 8:26:29 GMT -5
The only saving grace I can see here is that the interest rates have gone down and like someone said in the article, there may be an opportunity for refinancing.
But, other than that, a bad situation. The notes are due before anything else, education, fire, police, whatevah.
Reminds me of this exchange in Goodfellas: "Business bad? F you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? F you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? F you, pay me. "
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Post by rf1 on May 31, 2020 10:13:24 GMT -5
Very unfortunate for Worcester taxpayers but hardly surprising. The amount of public funding for this project was far too high and the politicians promise that it would pay for itself was always a real stretch even in good economic times. Ed Augustus and the city council made a bad and very risky gamble that the residents of Worcester will be made to pay for.
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Post by longsuffering on May 31, 2020 11:20:22 GMT -5
Very unfortunate for Worcester taxpayers but hardly surprising. The amount of public funding for this project was far too high and the politicians promise that it would pay for itself was always a real stretch even in good economic times. Ed Augustus and the city council made a bad and very risky gamble that the residents of Worcester will be made to pay for. It was priced for perfection. Officials didn't want to acknowledge Worcester's economy could have been at a cyclical peak for any number of reasons not even including an unlikely pandemic. When Rhode Island's elected officials (Statewide credit union failure, Plunderdome, 38 Studios, etc.) were too prudent to fund this stadium it should have been a warning sign.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on May 31, 2020 19:00:55 GMT -5
This project will pay for itself 100 times over just like the DCU Center has.
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 31, 2020 19:29:35 GMT -5
Worc taxpayers: get ready to grab your ankles. www.masslive.com/news/erry-2018/08/299b55e8d58252/the-worcester-red-sox-plan-inc.htmlI’m not an accountant or government finance whiz, but how about a quick exercise: Annual debt payment: $2,733,000 Add 20% for worst case: $3,279,600 Worcester’s estimated new revenue: $3,712,858 Cut 30% for worst case: $2,599,000 Worst case annual tax bill: $680,600 Split between 50,000 taxpayers (low estimate): $13 average per person annually, or a couple trips to Dunkin Donuts
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 31, 2020 19:48:16 GMT -5
This project will pay for itself 100 times over just like the DCU Center has. pdf p. 5 of this city document indicates that Worcester is paying $3.6 million in debt service in fiscal year 2021 for the DCU Center; $2.0 million in debt service for the baseball park. So I don't know the basis, other than civic boosterism, for a '100 times over' claim when the city is still not clear of its debt obligations for the DCU center. www.worcesterma.gov/uploads/d4/18/d418c35cb341e7794306d4e3f5a25a04/capital-budget-fY21.pdf_________________ Re: the DCU Center The $3.6 million includes $1.4M in debt service (interest) and $2.0M in principal. (numbers rounded). ^^^More debt-funded improvements planned. ^^^ From p. 241 of this document. www.worcesterma.gov/uploads/f9/cc/f9cc1ae9dd5bb1e7cf34b6a4eaca6613/budget-fy21.pdfNote the $2.3 million in general fund revenue. This is the amount the taxpayers of Worcester are paying a part of their real property taxes for the DCU Center.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on May 31, 2020 21:02:32 GMT -5
This project will pay for itself 100 times over just like the DCU Center has. pdf p. 5 of this city document indicates that Worcester is paying $3.6 million in debt service in fiscal year 2021 for the DCU Center; $2.0 million in debt service for the baseball park. So I don't know the basis, other than civic boosterism, for a '100 times over' claim when the city is still not clear of its debt obligations for the DCU center. www.worcesterma.gov/uploads/d4/18/d418c35cb341e7794306d4e3f5a25a04/capital-budget-fY21.pdf_________________ Re: the DCU Center The $3.6 million includes $1.4M in debt service (interest) and $2.0M in principal. (numbers rounded). ^^^More debt-funded improvements planned. ^^^ From p. 241 of this document. www.worcesterma.gov/uploads/f9/cc/f9cc1ae9dd5bb1e7cf34b6a4eaca6613/budget-fy21.pdfNote the $2.3 million in general fund revenue. This is the amount the taxpayers of Worcester are paying a part of their real property taxes for the DCU Center. Phreek, we can argue about the numbers, I just want to ask you a question. Do you think the DCU Center has been good or bad for the city of Worcester?
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Post by longsuffering on May 31, 2020 22:23:58 GMT -5
I'm no Phreek, but I think the DCU Center has been good for the City of Worcester. I think Polar Park will be good for the City and region also. It's just the stunning nine figure amount the city guaranteed takes your breath away. It's a wealth transfer to the owners of the PawSox.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 1, 2020 6:57:52 GMT -5
On balance, the DCU Center is a positive for Worcester. But it is not a project that has or will pay for itself, 100x over.
Even in good times, the operating revenue is thin, and insufficient to establish reserves to fund improvements and enhancements. Hence, a ticket surcharge is imposed for most events, and a second ticket surcharge to pay for the latest videoboard installation.
A special taxing district was set up by the state to help pay for convention centers in Boston, Worcester, and Springfield. Most of the annual revenue that underwrites the costs of the DCU comes from this special taxing district. (IIRC, there is a surcharge on meals, parking, and hotel rooms? rental cars? within the special taxing district to help defray the costs of financing and operating the DCU.) The taxpayers get stuck when the revenue stream from the special taxing district shrinks or disappears during economic downturns, lockdowns, etc.
The analogy to Polar Park is that the proposed development around Polar Park will supposedly generate enough tax revenue for the city that this pays off the debt incurred by the city in building the ballpark. If that development does not occur, or the development is substantially less than anticipated, then the taxpayers of Worcester are stuck.
When taxpayers are paying off bonds to build or improve publicly owned 'entertainment facilities', that's money not being spent on other needs. I was struck in glancing through Worcester's capital budget for 2021 that the city is buying a new fire engine, replacing the 18-year-old Engine 5. Engine 5 has 171,000 miles on it. Ridiculous mileage for a large city fire engine, given that pumping hours are not factored; the city should have replaced it years ago.
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