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Post by Tom on Jun 11, 2018 8:01:12 GMT -5
I have looked at what is going on and formed an opinion. Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll find out this month. I’ll admit it if I am wrong, I hope you’ll do the same. The state should do what they did for Kraft in Fox borough... infrastructure (which was a pretty decent chunk of change iirc). No more than that. I can't even imagine the infrastructure required for a potential stadium off of Kelly Sq. Whether coming from Kelly Sq or off of Quinsigamond, that's a lot eminent domain to support a single private enterprise. Never mind potential site clean up
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Post by timholycross on Jun 11, 2018 12:20:17 GMT -5
The cleanup might come under the federal umbrella, no? Would making something sane out of the Kelly Square insanity end up being a fringe benefit that would sell the project?
Then again, I personally would have no complaints if tptb decided the cost wasn't worth the benefit.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 11, 2018 15:21:09 GMT -5
I have looked at what is going on and formed an opinion. Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll find out this month. I’ll admit it if I am wrong, I hope you’ll do the same. The state should do what they did for Kraft in Fox borough... infrastructure (which was a pretty decent chunk of change iirc). No more than that.
If that is all that is done by the state, the Paw Sox won't be moving to Worcester. There is a high probability now that there will be a 38M offer from RI and Pawtucket. Only a much better offer will get them to turn that down.
Worcester could go the path of Hartford and completely finance a stadium on its own to lure a team. Their stadium for just some 6k seats ended up costing about 71M. It went some 20M over the original budget and missed its opening by a year forcing the team to play all its home games elsewhere that season. The city of Hartford is suing the developer for these reasons. While the stadium has drawn good crowds since its opening, it is falling far short of revenue projections (city portion) and the hoped for growth in and around the park has not yet developed.
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Post by Tom on Jun 11, 2018 15:46:00 GMT -5
The state should do what they did for Kraft in Fox borough... infrastructure (which was a pretty decent chunk of change iirc). No more than that.
If that is all that is done by the state, the Paw Sox won't be moving to Worcester. There is a high probability now that there will be a 38M offer from RI and Pawtucket. Only a much better offer will get them to turn that down.
Worcester could go the path of Hartford and completely finance a stadium on its own to lure a team. Their stadium for just some 6k seats ended up costing about 71M. It went some 20M over the original budget and missed its opening by a year forcing the team to play all its home games elsewhere that season. The city of Hartford is suing the developer for these reasons. While the stadium has drawn good crowds since its opening, it is falling far short of revenue projections (city portion) and the hoped for growth in and around the park has not yet developed.
It's awfully risky to put a lot of money into a stadium. Teams are so fickle today they move at the drop of a hat. Long term occupancy is rarely what is hoped for
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 11, 2018 16:59:13 GMT -5
The cleanup might come under the federal umbrella, no? Would making something sane out of the Kelly Square insanity end up being a fringe benefit that would sell the project? Then again, I personally would have no complaints if tptb decided the cost wasn't worth the benefit. The Federal government wouldn't get involved in clean-up unless Wyman Gordon went out of business. Then, it potentially could become a Superfund site. Wyman Gordon probably knows the extent of contamination, but isn't saying. Certainly the city and/or the state should not pay a penny until data on the extent of contamination has been reviewed, and the cost of a cleanup estimated.
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Post by cmo on Jun 13, 2018 8:48:10 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 13, 2018 9:09:18 GMT -5
Some posters may be able to write a nice I told you so
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 13, 2018 9:28:58 GMT -5
As a Rhode Islander (by domicile, not a native) but having a warm spot for my ancestral Worcester home and 4 years on the hill, I really don't care which place this AAA league team goes but I hope, like the Mueller investigation, that the decision is made soon and we can put an end to this thread. [yes, I know I can ignore it like the "Warrior's Dynasty" thread, but this is like the car wreck that I can't avoid peeking at]. I'd probably go to as many minor-league Sox (notice, I avoided the name) games in either location . . . . . once every 4 or 5 years when some group I am associated with has an "event" there.
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Post by rickii on Jun 13, 2018 12:01:22 GMT -5
If this gets done anyone want to hazard a guess on the impact of the current lower level team playing at Hanover Park on our campus ?
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 13, 2018 13:08:33 GMT -5
Will see their attendance skyrocket as Worcester fans get excited about baseball? Just a guess. Was that what you expected?
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Post by rf1 on Jun 13, 2018 17:43:07 GMT -5
If this gets done anyone want to hazard a guess on the impact of the current lower level team playing at Hanover Park on our campus ?
The Braveheats would most certainly be gone. If the Paw Sox moved to Worcester, the Bravehearts might move to Pawtucket to play at an otherwise empty McCoy Stadium. Worcester would likely exercise the exclusivity rule and prohibit an A, AA, or AAA team from going there. Pawtucket would have few options for a replacement for their existing venue.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 13, 2018 18:22:15 GMT -5
Bravehearts are not professional. They are summer collegiate, w/Worcester ownership that has a lot of clout w/the city, and not governed by any MLB exclusivity arrangements. They likely aren't going anywhere (certainly not to Pawtucket) regardless of whatever club may or may not come to Worc.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 14, 2018 8:22:09 GMT -5
Bravehearts are not professional. They are summer collegiate, w/Worcester ownership that has a lot of clout w/the city, and not governed by any MLB exclusivity arrangements. They likely aren't going anywhere (certainly not to Pawtucket) regardless of whatever club may or may not come to Worc.
Worcester would be hard pressed to support a AAA Red Sox team let alone be able to support a second baseball team. The market demographics would most certainly force the Bravehearts elsewhere if the city got the Paw Sox.
My comments about exclusivity were not about Worcester. They were directed at Pawtucket/McCoy Stadium as I believe they would be unable to get a MLB associated club (A/AA/AAA) due to its distance to Worcester. Their only option would be a team from a lesser league. Pawtucket would be attractive to such a team with an existing 10,000 seat stadium, 50 year history of supporting minor league baseball, and location within a large metro area. The Bravehearts would be foolish to not consider it when they would have to look at moving.
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Post by Tom on Jun 14, 2018 10:40:33 GMT -5
Not to be too much of a wet blanket, but I'm still skeptical.
Mark Henderson isn't just some local tweeter, but reporting this coming out of a city council meeting with no official announcement, this isn't a done deal. Some council person thinks it's real close and told this reporter, but that doesn't mean the PawSox think it's equally close. The Patriots were confirmed moving to Hartford.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 14, 2018 17:04:21 GMT -5
Not to be too much of a wet blanket, but I'm still skeptical. Mark Henderson isn't just some local tweeter, but reporting this coming out of a city council meeting with no official announcement, this isn't a done deal. Some council person thinks it's real close and told this reporter, but that doesn't mean the PawSox think it's equally close. The Patriots were confirmed moving to Hartford. Reading through his series of tweets, he seems to have tied the Pawsox coming to Worcester with the demolition of a landmark Worcester church, Notre Dame of the Canadians, Most of the tweets in the series of tweets dealt with the demolition. Unless the Pawsox are paying for the stadium, I don't know how Worcester can make any announcement without tying down who will pay what for the stadium. Further, i don't know whether the city has authority to bond for such an effort, and whether the legislature must first approve. The DCU is partly being paid for by a special taxing district created by the legislature for Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.
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Post by Tom on Jun 15, 2018 8:58:29 GMT -5
Not to be too much of a wet blanket, but I'm still skeptical. Mark Henderson isn't just some local tweeter, but reporting this coming out of a city council meeting with no official announcement, this isn't a done deal. Some council person thinks it's real close and told this reporter, but that doesn't mean the PawSox think it's equally close. The Patriots were confirmed moving to Hartford. Reading through his series of tweets, he seems to have tied the Pawsox coming to Worcester with the demolition of a landmark Worcester church, Notre Dame of the Canadians, Most of the tweets in the series of tweets dealt with the demolition. It does seem part of the logic in the confirmation was public relations thing that a perceived failure to prevent the demolition of a building owned by a private company would be offset by the success of bringing the PawSox to town.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 15, 2018 16:01:56 GMT -5
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 16, 2018 17:52:25 GMT -5
There will be a very vocal opposition to public funding at this hearing.
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Post by cmo on Jun 16, 2018 19:21:55 GMT -5
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Post by rf1 on Jun 16, 2018 19:27:35 GMT -5
There will be a very vocal opposition to public funding at this hearing.
So Worcester residents and those all over the state of Massachusetts are all supportive of the tens of millions of public taxpayer dollars that will be needed to lure the team to Worcester? No vocal opposition in Worcester or MA?
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Post by timholycross on Jun 16, 2018 20:07:58 GMT -5
There will be a very vocal opposition to public funding at this hearing.
So Worcester residents and those all over the state of Massachusetts are all supportive of the tens of millions of public taxpayer dollars that will be needed to lure the team to Worcester? No vocal opposition in Worcester or MA?
. That's because the public has no clue about any of this.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 16, 2018 20:37:05 GMT -5
Re the tweet of Katherine Gregg. She covers the RI State House for ProJo. Here is a link to the Pawsox bill that is the subject of the public hearing in Providence.. www.rilin.state.ri.us/Reports/H7290A-DRAFT%20SUBA.pdfWhere is the equivalent legislation in Massachusetts?
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 16, 2018 21:25:12 GMT -5
There will be a very vocal opposition to public funding at this hearing.
So Worcester residents and those all over the state of Massachusetts are all supportive of the tens of millions of public taxpayer dollars that will be needed to lure the team to Worcester? No vocal opposition in Worcester or MA?
I haven’t seen any organized, vocal opposition from city of Worcester residents or anywhere else. Of course the same sort of crowd that opposed the building of the Centrum will come out, but they are inherently negative about the city anyways. And if people from Boston get upset who cares. We’re helping them pay down billions for the big dig. Either way, we will probably find out next week. My money is still on Worcester. Have a great Father’s Day.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 16, 2018 23:04:32 GMT -5
So Worcester residents and those all over the state of Massachusetts are all supportive of the tens of millions of public taxpayer dollars that will be needed to lure the team to Worcester? No vocal opposition in Worcester or MA?
I haven’t seen any organized, vocal opposition from city of Worcester residents or anywhere else. Of course the same sort of crowd that opposed the building of the Centrum will come out, but they are inherently negative about the city anyways. And if people from Boston get upset who cares. We’re helping them pay down billions for the big dig. Either way, we will probably find out next week. My money is still on Worcester. Have a great Father’s Day.
There has been no vocal opposition in Worcester or the state of MA because no detailed plan has yet been made public. When it is, you will see some opposition. I would imagine most of Massachusetts will not be supportive of such a plan. It goes against the state's general rule not to provide public financial contributions for sports stadiums.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 17, 2018 6:22:36 GMT -5
Equating paying for the Big Dig which arguably benefits most of those who travel on Massachusetts highways with paying for a professional sports stadium, that benefits only a few residents is a false equivalency. ________________
If, illustratively, the cost of a new stadium in Worcester for the Pawsox, with interest cost on the financing bonds added, is $150 million to be paid off over a 25 year period, the annual cost is $6 million a year.
Assuming the Worcester Pawsox average the same annual attendance as the Pawsox did in 2017, 410,000, for 25 years, and assuming the Pawsox are responsible for paying off the $150 million, the cost per ticket sold is nearly $15 per ticket.
The special tax district that was set up to help finance the DCU was designed so that the taxes and fees would be mostly paid by visitors, not by property owners in Worcester.
If the property taxpayers in Worcester are left to pick up most of the tab, then these taxpayers are subsidizing the attendance of the majority/most of those going to a Worcester Pawsox game, who probably live in Worcester County outside of the city of Worcester.
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