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Post by breezy on Aug 4, 2018 9:24:21 GMT -5
I think it was Harry Truman who said something to the effect of: "I never say never, because never is a helluva long time."
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Post by rf1 on Aug 4, 2018 9:51:18 GMT -5
And this is the difference between us. I and many, many others from the Worcester area have driven down 146 for years to watch the PawSox. I'm quite confident that if the WooSox come to be, there is an avid fan-base waiting for them - you and your bitter, incessantly whiny ilk can stay right where you are. Worcester hasn't had affiliated baseball for nearly 100 years. It's about time.
You however did not travel to see a team that had turned its back on you after supporting it for some 50 years. That alone makes it entirely different.
I do not begrudge Worcester getting a team. I however do not like them stealing away my team, one from a nearby city.
The reality is that most fans going to PawSox games come from within 30 miles of McCoy Stadium. That trait will likely not change much if the team moves to Worcester. If there is a WooSox, they will have to build their own local fan base. The bulk of the present PawSox fan base will not be coming along.
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Post by Tom on Aug 4, 2018 10:07:14 GMT -5
Some fans will stay and make the trek. Some will not. This isn't the Dodgers moving 3000 miles away, but many will be so upset even though it's a short drive. I imagine some Patriots season tickets didn't stay with the team when they moved from Harvard all the way down to Foxborough. Anyone know what percentage of season ticket holders abandoned the Nets when they moved to Brooklyn?
Pawtucket fans should be more concerned about navigating that section of Worcester than the 40 minute drive
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 4, 2018 10:37:20 GMT -5
And this is the difference between us. I and many, many others from the Worcester area have driven down 146 for years to watch the PawSox. I'm quite confident that if the WooSox come to be, there is an avid fan-base waiting for them - you and your bitter, incessantly whiny ilk can stay right where you are. Worcester hasn't had affiliated baseball for nearly 100 years. It's about time. You mean just like you in every single MBB recruiting post?
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Post by rf1 on Aug 4, 2018 11:01:35 GMT -5
Some fans will stay and make the trek. Some will not. This isn't the Dodgers moving 3000 miles away, but many will be so upset even though it's a short drive. I imagine some Patriots season tickets didn't stay with the team when they moved from Harvard all the way down to Foxborough. Anyone know what percentage of season ticket holders abandoned the Nets when they moved to Brooklyn? Pawtucket fans should be more concerned about navigating that section of Worcester than the 40 minute drive
The fans that were already making the trip to Pawtucket from Worcester County or the western suburbs of Boston will continue to attend games in Worcester should a move there happen. They are not really very connected to the Providence metro market and they more associated with the team as it is the top farm club of the BoSox. These fans are however are just a small percent of the current attendees at McCoy Stadium. The overwhelming majority of present fans are coming from RI and nearby SE Mass towns.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 4, 2018 11:08:22 GMT -5
Rhode Islanders don't travel well for any team. This coming from a (now) long time Ocean State resident but not a native. The natives are born, live and die in the state and if by some fluke happen to move out, come back, from Florida and elsewhere. Anything more than a 20 minute trip is just "too far."
146 might be an easy trip for most others, but not Rhode Islanders and rf1 is probably right that you add to that "long distance" the bitterness of losing a Rhode Island team to another state, even if just up the road apiece, they mostly won't support them.
IMHO, Worcester folks will more than make up for the loss.
But . . . . . a big but, the decision has not been made yet.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 4, 2018 11:16:33 GMT -5
And this is the difference between us. I and many, many others from the Worcester area have driven down 146 for years to watch the PawSox. I'm quite confident that if the WooSox come to be, there is an avid fan-base waiting for them - you and your bitter, incessantly whiny ilk can stay right where you are. Worcester hasn't had affiliated baseball for nearly 100 years. It's about time.
You however did not travel to see a team that had turned its back on you after supporting it for some 50 years. That alone makes it entirely different.
I do not begrudge Worcester getting a team. I however do not like them stealing away my team, one from a nearby city.
The reality is that most fans going to PawSox games come from within 30 miles of McCoy Stadium. That trait will likely not change much if the team moves to Worcester. If there is a WooSox, they will have to build their own local fan base. The bulk of the present PawSox fan base will not be coming along.
Saying the city of Worcester stole the franchise is unfair. Worcester put in a lot of work, put up a great proposal, and against the odds convinced the franchise to move. There was a unified effort between the city and state. Contrast that with Rhode Island which shut down the Providence proposal and gave a half hearted effort on behalf of Pawtucket. I don’t really feel bad for Pawtucket since Worcester has been shut out of landing an affiliated team because of the proximity to Pawtucket. Now it is Worcester’s turn. We deserve it.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 4, 2018 11:40:06 GMT -5
You however did not travel to see a team that had turned its back on you after supporting it for some 50 years. That alone makes it entirely different.
I do not begrudge Worcester getting a team. I however do not like them stealing away my team, one from a nearby city.
The reality is that most fans going to PawSox games come from within 30 miles of McCoy Stadium. That trait will likely not change much if the team moves to Worcester. If there is a WooSox, they will have to build their own local fan base. The bulk of the present PawSox fan base will not be coming along.
Saying the city of Worcester stole the franchise is unfair. Worcester put in a lot of work, put up a great proposal, and against the odds convinced the franchise to move. There was a unified effort between the city and state. Contrast that with Rhode Island which shut down the Providence proposal and gave a half hearted effort on behalf of Pawtucket. I don’t really feel bad for Pawtucket since Worcester has been shut out of landing an affiliated team because of the proximity to Pawtucket. Now it is Worcester’s turn. We deserve it.
Worcester may yet get the team but it will be at the expense of another city. The Pawsox have been in the same place for 50 years and have had for the most part very good support often being among the league leaders for attendance. If the team does move, it will not be due to its failure in its current location. Worcester will have stolen a team away primarily with the enticement of more stadium money whether you accept that premise or not.
Worcester has been burned in the last two decades twice when its AHL teams moved away. If these teams had been connected to Worcester for half a century with good support, would most Worcester area residents accepted them moving away to nearby cities such as Springfield or Lowell and continued to go to games in large numbers? I myself would think not.
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Post by gks on Aug 4, 2018 15:17:25 GMT -5
Cannot compare the AHL teams with the PawSox. AHL affiliates were in St. Louis and San Jose. There was no connection between the parent club and the city. With the PawSox you have the parent club 40 miles away.
For what it's worth Friday night the Worcester Bravehearts sold out their final home game of the season and with it set a season attendence record with one fewer home game than last season when the record was set.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 4, 2018 20:04:14 GMT -5
Bill Ballou of the T & G is reporting that the soon to be Worcester Red Sox are working with WPI to make the new ballpark the most technologically advanced stadium in baseball. A deal should be announced this month. Great for Worcester, great to give HC students, and all Worcester college students another entertainment option. Perhaps some mlb exposure for HC baseball players.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 4, 2018 20:58:26 GMT -5
How exactly would a WooSox team give MLB exposure to HC players?
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 4, 2018 21:29:45 GMT -5
How exactly would a WooSox team give MLB exposure to HC players? I don’t know, an AAA affiliated team one mile from the HC campus?
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 4, 2018 22:40:37 GMT -5
1. AAA is not Major League Baseball, they are a minor league team whether they are in Worcester or Pawtucket 2. If the Crusader baseball players buy tickets to a BoSox game, they'll be even closer than a mile 3. Will all Worcester college teams have the same exposure to MLB if the team becomes the WooSox?
You certainly want the team to move to Worcester, I get that, but it is not going to increase exposure to MLB for our players.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 4, 2018 22:58:57 GMT -5
1. AAA is not Major League Baseball, they are a minor league team whether they are in Worcester or Pawtucket 2. If the Crusader baseball players buy tickets to a BoSox game, they'll be even closer than a mile 3. Will all Worcester college teams have the same exposure to MLB if the team becomes the WooSox? You certainly want the team to move to Worcester, I get that, but it is not going to increase exposure to MLB for our players. Oh my God, I said perhaps it would be more exposure. Friggin’ lighten up. Way to comb a post and nitpick at something. Get a life.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 5, 2018 5:42:31 GMT -5
Trivia question . . . What famous big-league manager got his first managing job as skipper of the Worcester Panthers during their final season in the old Eastern League?
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 5, 2018 8:53:48 GMT -5
I seem to remember that Casey Stengel was one of their managers. Perhaps he was there in that last season? (Amazing what comes back from my time on The Crusader sports staff. )
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Post by rf1 on Aug 5, 2018 9:07:06 GMT -5
great to give HC students, and all Worcester college students another entertainment option. Perhaps some mlb exposure for HC baseball players. Most of the AAA season occurs during the warmer months when students at the Worcester colleges are not in the city. The season starts in early April and ends in early September. I therefore doubt a large number of students at the Worcester colleges will ever see many games. Besides, it is already hard enough to get students to athletics games just steps away on campus these days. Why then would anyone expect them to trek in large numbers downtown to baseball games? I doubt that a lot college students went to Railers games this past year even though much of their season was during the academic year.
My understanding is that the demographics of Pawsox attendees heavily skews to families with young kids and retirees. College aged students are not a big factor. I believe that this dynamic is at play for most minor leagues in all sports as they offer an affordable night out. Keep in mind though that a new stadium, be it in Worcester or RI, will very likely be more expensive than what McCoy Stadium has provided. That is one of the fears in Pawtucket as people worry that a new stadium will have much higher prices. Pawsox ownership wants a more upscale stadium experience catering more to the corporate crowd where it can generate increased revenue. McCoy offered cheap tickets and plenty of nearby free parking. The next stadium is not likely to do so.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 5, 2018 9:19:54 GMT -5
I seem to remember that Casey Stengel was one of their managers. Perhaps he was there in that last season? (Amazing what comes back from my time on The Crusader sports staff. ) Stengel is correct! At the end of the line as a major league player, the Boston Braves sent Casey to Worcester in the summer of 1925, where he became a player-manager. He became a full-time manager the following season with the Toledo Mud Hens.
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Post by timholycross on Aug 5, 2018 10:35:50 GMT -5
Stengel's departure from Wormtown was somewhat unique:
"After two more seasons in the major leagues, Stengel spent several seasons managing in the minor leagues. This included a memorable moment when Stengel released himself as a player, fired himself as a manager and resigned as owner of Boston’s minor-league Worcester affiliate club to manage Triple-A Toledo."
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 5, 2018 11:33:17 GMT -5
Hall-of-Fame catcher Gabby Hartnett also started his professional career as a 20-year-old with Worcester in the Eastern League, in 1921.
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Post by lou on Aug 5, 2018 11:56:41 GMT -5
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 5, 2018 15:36:33 GMT -5
great to give HC students, and all Worcester college students another entertainment option. Perhaps some mlb exposure for HC baseball players. Most of the AAA season occurs during the warmer months when students at the Worcester colleges are not in the city. The season starts in early April and ends in early September. I therefore doubt a large number of students at the Worcester colleges will ever see many games. Besides, it is already hard enough to get students to athletics games just steps away on campus these days. Why then would anyone expect them to trek in large numbers downtown to baseball games? I doubt that a lot college students went to Railers games this past year even though much of their season was during the academic year.
My understanding is that the demographics of Pawsox attendees heavily skews to families with young kids and retirees. College aged students are not a big factor. I believe that this dynamic is at play for most minor leagues in all sports as they offer an affordable night out. Keep in mind though that a new stadium, be it in Worcester or RI, will very likely be more expensive than what McCoy Stadium has provided. That is one of the fears in Pawtucket as people worry that a new stadium will have much higher prices. Pawsox ownership wants a more upscale stadium experience catering more to the corporate crowd where it can generate increased revenue. McCoy offered cheap tickets and plenty of nearby free parking. The next stadium is not likely to do so.
I’m sure there is a possibility that some college students in April, early May or early September may decide to have a $1 draft at the Hotel Vernon and then go to a Worcester Red Sox game. I did not say college students would be a substantial portion of the attendance. I said it was another entertainment option. I’m sorry you are upset that the team is moving. If it wasn’t Worcester it would have been Springfield or New Bedford or Fall River or somewhere else. There was no way they were staying in Rhode Island with the deal offered.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 6, 2018 13:48:06 GMT -5
If it wasn’t Worcester it would have been Springfield or New Bedford or Fall River or somewhere else. There was no way they were staying in Rhode Island with the deal offered.
I don't think the team was interested in any of those locations and highly doubt they could have offered more than the 38M in public funds RI was. I further don't think the team really wants to move to Worcester but it is hard to turn down the 50M+ the city is apparently willing to offer to build a stadium. I guess things like good schools and basic bus service are not as important priorities for Worcester.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 16, 2018 15:51:45 GMT -5
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Post by rf1 on Aug 16, 2018 18:41:29 GMT -5
Looks like Worcester taxpayers will finally get to learn tomorrow how much of their money is being proposed by city leaders to be used for a AAA baseball stadium.
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